Question 1

Transcript

Accepted Answer

Brad Kennedy
Brad Kennedy: [00:00:00] As new stressors and your brain comes back online after being sober, it's not, I had a guy who was here and he's like, my goal, I mean, from the jump is to be fully present. And he went through residential, he stayed with us for, I think, 60 or 90 days at the Riverside house. Did amazing work. Anyone would say you got A pluses for his recovery, his therapy work, all of it.
He went back and he called me this fully present stuff is for the birds, man, my Boyfriend my son's worried. He's not gonna make the football team. Like, you know, he went down the list of these normal things He hasn't dealt with for years So it doesn't stick, right? And you need that support. You need people to bounce things off of.
You need to create, I think, as a field, we need to find ways to train people not to need us.[00:01:00] 
Graham Doerge: Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Graham Durgie, and I'm the CEO and founder of New Waters Recovery down here in Raleigh, North Carolina. I'm joined today with our executive director, Justin McClendon. And our guest today is the one and only Mr. Brad Kennedy. from Driftwood Recovery. Um, Brad is the chief operating officer and partner at Driftwood Recovery.
And I actually have some experience. I did a little, uh, I did a, about a year and a half of work where I was with Driftwood. Um, so obviously know the team intimately and all the work that they do. I still send Quite a few clients to them because in my opinion, they're one of the best in the business. Um, if I have a family member, if I have somebody, you know, very close to me that needs to go to treatment, driftwood is always at the top [00:02:00] of my list.
So I'm very excited to have Brad on here today. Um, and Brad, I always kind of like to start these things out, obviously just, uh, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got into this work. Obviously it's pretty unique work that we do. So, uh, I think it's always interesting just to learn how people kind of find themselves to 
Brad Kennedy: that.
Well, thank you so much for the kind introduction, Graham. It's really a pleasure to have some time to talk to you guys today. You know, I yeah, I kind of have taken a meandering path into this work. I certainly, you know, through my own personal experience, I had a need to seek support in different forms and fashions in terms of Really kind of a philosophy that I, that we hold true to at Driftwood today is trying to become the best version of yourself.
And while I maybe wasn't that, I always throughout my life, um, and I was meandering through, like I had finished college and [00:03:00] I was working at Starbucks and I had a man who had become my, one of my mentors, Dr. Al Reister, uh, was a, was a regular customer there. And he came in and asked me, Hey, what are you going to do?
It was like, you're graduating and. At the time I was really into running and triathlons and I said, well, I think I might do this 5k and then I'll work up to this. And he's like, no, I mean your life. And so, uh, you know, my first foray into the field was I was working with a preparation for adult living program.
So I worked with foster kids, um, and really helped try to teach them independent living skills. And from that moment forward, uh, I did a number of different things, uh, in the helping industry. I worked at a treatment center in upstate New York, which is where I'm originally from. Um, And then ended up eventually finding my way to the Menninger Clinic where I worked for 14 years.
Graham Doerge: Right. And Menninger is one of, you [00:04:00] know, kind of the top psychiatric programs across the country. Been around for what, 40 plus years? And, you know, one of the real staples in that world. So, obviously, great pedigree. You've, you've, uh, you know, being with them for so long, uh, you know, you're Your, you know, foundation is just so strong.
And that's, that's, that's the thing that always stood out to me at driftwood is like the clinical team was so strong, you know, um, and all of you just that multidisciplinary team and everybody kind of having their own little specialty. Right. 
Brad Kennedy: Yeah. That's the model is really trying to make, I think you make yourself better by surrounding yourself with people that.
Have skills that maybe you don't. Right. And the basic understanding, if you have 15 people in a team meeting, 15 lines are better than one or two, if you're just sitting in an individual session. So that's a kind of eat to the work that we have and dropping any egos over whose client or program they're in.
It's like, what does that person [00:05:00] need? And how do we set up a team that allows for that 
Graham Doerge: experience? Yeah, a hundred percent. So there was a couple things that I pulled off the website that I just wanted to read quickly because I really like them and I think that you can, this will kind of be the catalyst to start, uh, start this conversation.
Um, so from the website, Driftwood's approach is founded on an attachment based sanctuary informed model. Can you dig into that a little bit and, and just kind of let our audience, uh, understand what that 
Brad Kennedy: means? Yeah, absolutely. So I think when we hear like fancy psycho babble jargon, like attachment and sanctuary model, so our brains can kind of shut down.
Um, and really to me, it's as simple as like the end result of actual addiction is a process where you really feel alienated from yourself and a really simple distilled down version of a secure attachment. is the opportunity to feel known, understood, and accepted. Known being the facts, right, which we generally pick [00:06:00] up in relationships pretty quickly.
The understood part is the complexities of emotion and identifying, understanding, and expressing emotions. And then accepting, being like having people that you feel close to. And when you're using for a long time, and substance abuse disorder can rear its ugly head, you can really become pretty alienated from that.
But the saddest part of that is when you become alienated from yourself, right? And you don't feel understood or accepting of yourself. You actively are repressing those emotions. When you look in the mirror, uh, it's not an accepting stance one is taking on, right? It's one generally people describe as a shame based, uh, response to that.
And so we wanted to develop a program to help re establish the connection to oneself. And then bring in the context of recovery. We have a slogan like more context, more recovery. So family members, loved ones, whoever it may be, so that you can look at that ostracism that has [00:07:00] naturally occurred through the process.
So when we say attachment, that's part of what we're talking about. Yeah, that's awesome. 
Justin Mclendon: You know what came up for me when you were talking about that is I'm a I'm a big fan and I guess a big student if you could if you could put it that way of Spirituality and like what spirituality means to us and just hearing you talk about that That was kind of the first thing that came up for me was you know, those same concepts is not And not to turn this podcast into one about spirituality or anything like that, I promise I won't do that.
But, you know, that same idea is that, you know, removing or stepping away from this idea that there's this, you know Uh, big figure in the sky, but more of this idea of spirituality being like those things, right? Like acceptance, you know, uh, connection, mindful awareness, like, you know, living a life that is an engaging in, in relationships, uh, that is fulfilling and connected in, in kind of a healthier way of [00:08:00] life, if you will.
Right. So I don't know, just throw in, throw in a couple ideas in there that came up while you were talking. 
Brad Kennedy: Yeah, I love that. We love that. Yeah. You know, it brings to mind, I worked, the first treatment center I ever worked at was a place called St. Joseph's recovery in the Adirondacks of upstate New York.
And they had this tapestry on the wall, you know, certain things, when you see them, they just become kind of imprinted on your brain. And it said, if you want to know if a man is religious or not, don't ask him, follow him around for a week. I'm probably butchering it, but it was, that's, I love that. And so I think it really does tie into what you're saying, which is.
How is the practice of recovery coming to life for people? How is, how are their feelings resonating within them? I mean, there are fancy modality names for it, I think. But when you really distill down amazing therapy and recovery, it's really. How do you start to, well, go for the luxury and love yourself again and love others, [00:09:00] or how do you just feel connected to yourself again or aware maybe is where most people start early on.
Graham Doerge: Yeah. Yeah. And having that, that moment when you were saying looking in the mirror, I mean, I have that distinct moment of, of in being in my boss, uh, basement in Boston before I got into treatment and looking in the mirror and just having no idea who that human was, right? And just, and literally just feeling like I'm looking at a total stranger.
Like I just had left, lost my whole identity and, and who I was. Right. And, um, so that isolating behavior is so scary, so terrifying. And it come into a place like driftwood. I mean, I know when I got there, the, and even just to visit the program, there was just like a vibe on the campus. Right. And it's just, you know, you're in Austin, Texas.
It's a great place. It's a very, you know, kind of cool, funky place to be in general, but. It is such a family atmosphere and such a warm, loving place. And, um, and I just, that's [00:10:00] so important. It's, you know, it's not institutional. It's, you know, it's a really hopeful, beautiful place where people can, um, you know, take that next step in life.
So, um, you guys have done an amazing job with that. 
Brad Kennedy: It really has a dream for us, right? And I say us, I mean, there's Peter who's, uh, Flores is one of our founders. My wife also works here. Dr. Vanessa Kennedy. I always tell people it's a Dr. Mr. Situation. It keeps my ego in check early on with this dream. Like, can we, can we do it?
And I'll tell you one day, it's kind of a strange story, but one day where it really became true to me is we had a guy. Um, one of the staff came and said, Hey, this guy's upset. He's walking towards the gate, which is a long walk. You wouldn't want to walk, uh, from here. But before I could even get there, one of the guys, uh, who's our, one of our facilities guys was walking next to him.
And I thought that's a model. Uh, [00:11:00] that's not in that guy's job description. He's not trying to do anything, but he gets the ethos and the shared culture that we have. We always say that we don't have any special therapeutic tricks or modalities that are trademarked. What we have is a culture that we're uncompromising about.
And whether it's an attachment model or trauma informed, meaning we've all been through some pain and we all need some help to get out of it. That's something that we accept. We show up, um, from the kitchen staff to the docs. People are showing up with that shared mental model and wanting to approach and help in that way.
Graham Doerge: Yep. Yep. That's even, even down to, you know, the staff eating with the clients and having that moment during lunch where kind of the barriers are taken down and you can have that, that real connection and that intimate moment, um, where they're not feeling like they're being therapized. Right. And, you know, those moments are sometimes some of the most powerful, powerful experiences that these guys have in treatment and those real breakthrough moments.
So it's like having, you know, you're [00:12:00] not just doing work when you're in group, it's, it's happening all around you. And at all times, 
Brad Kennedy: right? Absolutely. And then we have a house, we have a house in, uh, Austin that we call our community integration program. We designed it with that, Mike, I'm going to carry out the attachment based model, right?
And how do you take the show on the road? It's really cool in this bubble of residential treatment that arrests active addiction is completely necessary. And is absolutely beautiful, but we want to make sure that momentum carries forward. And how do you create those meaningful, secure attachments in real life?
Um, and there's a whole team that supports people to do that. And it's a really kind of magic moment too, when you realize like, Oh, this doesn't happen just in a session or with the super accepting, uh, uh, it can happen in real life. If I'm showing up in a certain way that's more authentic and true to my values and the values of recovery and that.
Yeah. [00:13:00] Yeah, absolutely. 
Justin Mclendon: Can you tell us a little bit about, I mean, we know, especially Graham know a lot about Driftwood, but you know, maybe for the people that are, that are listening and watching. Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, the program and like level of care, length of stay, what happens, what's the.
Maybe the perfect client. The 
Brad Kennedy: perfect client. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Well, when you find them. Please send it my way, you know, 
Graham Doerge: perfect 
Brad Kennedy: client is someone that has a willingness to learn about themselves. Right. And the spark that often comes in a company's labels, like. A treatment resistant client is not something that, to me, it's like you have this spark inside you that doesn't allow you to fall into a trap of compliance for compliance sake, and you may actively debate things and appear in what clinical terms would be oppositional, narcissistic, insert your pathologized term here.
That's not the barrier. The barrier is what's really getting in the [00:14:00] way of you accepting the best version of yourself. Right. And is it a fear or pressure or the fear of hope that the belief that change is positive and possible is so overwhelming that you're like, dude, I'm never going to be that Brad Kennedy, I'm going to be Starbucks entity, it's not going to happen, whatever.
So, um, the perfect client to me is just has some willingness, the ability to hit the pause button occasionally and think. Maybe I don't have it all figured out, right? And we, I think, have the responsibility as a team to assemble a team that creates opportunities for that kind of change. Um, so I'm sorry, I went off on like the bad history teacher that goes off on 10.
No, I love it. No, I love it. That's, uh, to me, the perfect like, you get the willingness, even if they have an edge to their presentation, um, we get it, right? Um, there's a fancy therapy clinical term for it called epistemic mistrust, right? It's like something happens in your [00:15:00] life. That doesn't allow you to trust your primary caregivers, uh, whoever that may be, maybe your parents, maybe your partner, whatever.
So that's, that's ruptured. Through active addiction, your trust of your mind will get ruptured, right? It's par for the course, um, that you can't, people will come to you and also say, Hey, do your best thinking. And AA has slogans for their like, your best thinking got you here, right? But it's, you can't trust your mind.
And then you have somebody show up like me and you're like, but I'm Brad Kennedy, I'm going to be super nice to you. And you're like, who the hell are you? Why should I trust you? I, I don't trust the people I'm biologically wired to trust. I can't trust my own thinking right now. So some guy sitting in an office on a nice campus, you're the You're the savior.
I don't think so. And so that's the elephant in the room. Right? Is that mistrust oftentimes that makes people think, well, they don't want to change as if it's a readiness question. And it's really like a human being [00:16:00] question. Maybe they're pretty wise not to trust yet because they're afraid of being hopeful, right?
What the family or loved ones might think. If you do start doing better, people want you to replicate that. So, 
Graham Doerge: sorry, I got fired up over that. And, and so how do you, how do you approach that client and how do you break through that? And, and what's the methodology there? Yeah. 
Brad Kennedy: So, attachment takes time, right?
And so, the first thing is the ability to have clinicians that know what to do with the things that get unearthed through the recovery and therapeutic and treatment process. The second is the time to do it. So we have very small caseloads complete compared for our clinicians compared to most people yet They're probably working as much or more hours than anyone, right?
Because they're trying to find a way in and they're trying to point out where the incongruence is between how that person sees himself [00:17:00] or is presenting themselves and how they're really showing up in life And sometimes we need people to say, Hey, Graham, when I saw you in Boston and looking in that mirror, I actually saw a guy who was scared and you're like, Oh, I wasn't scared of this fella, bring up a moment.
So, right. And, and they're like, yeah, but you know, they're bringing those two realities together. Um, yeah, we create that. We have a group programming that's basically designed to basically every day you're getting. A open process group, right? This kind of traditional group psychotherapy. And we bring in trainers to train our clinicians in like, what is, how do you find those dynamics, those repeated patterns and no one likes to look at the hidden dynamics in their level, like, I don't know about you guys, but when people bring those up to me, I'm like.
Yeah, probably not. They're like, I'm going to get defensive the first time, probably. So we have, you can bring it up people that can curate a community [00:18:00] and have a shared experience. We use evidence based behavioral practices because all the insight in the world without action. Just leads to more frustration.
So it's one thing to know, Hey, I don't have a voice in my family, but if you don't have a dbt, dear man, to know how to speak up next time, that situation presents itself, you're just kind of fuming and silence. So we teach a lot of skills dbt that apply very readily to addiction. And then we do a lot of recovery group.
There are principles in recovery, honesty, grief and loss, resentments. How do you deal with that stuff? Um, and trying to find a pathway that people can really work on that in their own way. 
Graham Doerge: Yeah. And the thing that was coming up for me right there was, was the, uh, like the people pleasing, right? It is such a common, um, attribute and, and I'm a huge.
Uh, you know, victim of this and, and, and I [00:19:00] think I'm better at it now, but early on, I mean, you know, that was, it was just kind of like, how do I stay under the radar? And, and, you know, uh, obviously, you know, giving people the answer that they wanted was a good way to do that. But obviously, um, your process, I think really kind of gets them out of that head, head frame, you know, um, and meet some where they're at, which is awesome.
Brad Kennedy: Thanks. Yeah. I mean, we're all, to me, the best solutions are co created. Right. So no matter how awesome a program may be, a clinician may be, a peer group may be, if you don't have a shared narrative between you and the other party, it's really hard to buy in. Right. And you may know the right and you may even agree.
Yeah, that's the best way to deal it. Do it. I can't do it, but that's a really cool way to deal with, uh, right. So it's creating, I think this is what's going on, allowing the space to check. And asking the person how I move forward, right? Sometimes they already know, [00:20:00] right? Um, or there's invisible vultures like fear, anxiety, resentment.
Graham Doerge: And so this is a long process. It takes a long time, right? So how long are clients typically with you guys? And what's, what's in your opinion for a positive outcome? What's the best scenario for length of stay? 
Brad Kennedy: Yeah. I mean, so I think our average length of stay at residential is around 47 days, right? Uh, some people detox when they come in sometimes.
People come from great detox experience like you guys have and they show up ready, minds are ready as well to do the work. Um, and then you need some kind of aftercare after that, right? And I think depending on your lifestyle and you know, the treatment's expensive. Um, how do you continue to keep the momentum that you get going from a residential experience into real [00:21:00] life?
Um, so we're always trying to help people envision a plan. It's not a 30 day problem. It's a one year problem, is the way I think about it. And it's, does it stop at a year? Of course not. But like, let's not make the finish line something that's deceiving to an individual. That the work is very, very difficult.
Um, as new stressors and your brain comes back online after being sober, It's not, I had a guy who was here and he's like, My goal, I mean, from the jump, is to be fully present. And he went through residential. He stayed with us for, I think, 60 or 90 days at the Riverside House. Did amazing work. Anyone would say, uh, A pluses for his recovery, his therapy work, all of it.
He went back home. He called me. This fully present stuff is for the birds, man. My teenage boyfriend, my son's worried he's not going to make the football team. Like, you know, he went down the list of these normal things he hasn't dealt with for years. So it doesn't [00:22:00] stop. Right. And you need that support.
You need people to bounce things off of need to create. I think as a field, we need to find ways to train people not to need us. Right. So you need to find right. A meeting where you can share and connect you need to find a group where you can share and connect that you're not paying by The hour right as much as I love some of my long term clients That's my goal for everyone is like, how do you find that within?
And maybe there's times when you you go back to a therapist you had or a sponsor you had and you're like, hey I really need help. Um, but you one of the mentors I had was peter fonagy And he said don't you think the best coping skill you can teach somebody is the ability to think for themselves? And, um, wow, that's, uh, that's a good point.
It's hard to argue with that one. That's 
Graham Doerge: huge. That's huge. Yeah. And I mean, in your mindset too, as a therapist, you know, your goal is to get this person, you know, self sufficient and on their own. And, you know, unfortunately a lot of [00:23:00] therapists, that's, they, they, they want you coming back for, you know, an extended period of time.
So it's not only, you know, that, that kind of a mindset. So being careful about that, I think is also good too, but I know you had a question. Well, I was just 
Brad Kennedy: thinking, you 
Justin Mclendon: know, when you were talking like, you know, so we have, Yeah. I think we would agree that year trajectory is, is, uh, should be gold standard.
Again, that's my opinion, right? But, um, you know, it's, it's hard, especially being on the very front end, you know, operating a detox facility like we do here at New Waters Recovery. Uh, we have a client that's come in, we're working with the client, we're working with the family, we're having discussions about, okay, this is what's going on, this, this is our recommendation for moving forward.
Uh, that is a hard pill to swallow to say, hey guys, we're not talking about. The next 30, 45 days here. We're talking about the next six months, the next year and what that needs to look like. Um, and that, uh, that can sometimes be a, you know, a big conversation to, to broach with, with clients and families. Um, you [00:24:00] know, so, you know, I think, you know, the way we handle that is, okay, let's not worry about what's going to happen 365 days from now.
Let's worry about what are we going to do next. And then I really like what you said, Brad, about, We, we really should be, I think, collectively as an industry, as individuals that provide care for other people, like, um, really working towards that goal of, you know, somewhere in this process, we're letting go of those reins, the client is taking control of those reins, and that needs to become something to where they're providing their own care, so to speak, right?
They are the source of their own Uh, change and they, and they find, you know, places where they can receive that, that support that doesn't have to be in a facility setting. It doesn't have to be necessarily a, you know, an extensive team of professionals that's working with them. Because at the end of the day, I mean, we all just want to We just want to live life, right?
We want to make good decisions. We want to have good connections. And like, we kind of started the conversation with, we just want to be healthy people, you know? Yeah, absolutely. I love it. So we have that, we have that same philosophy. [00:25:00] 
Brad Kennedy: Yeah. I think the way I think about it too, is we all have different measuring sticks for how we're going to measure our values in our life and our quality of life.
And how can we partner with the people that are trusting us enough to seek help to develop their own recovery milestones? I don't know how you like i've been doing this for a long time. There's nothing. No, there's not a discussion I dislike more than talking about number of days in treatment. I have like Yeah, I can see it based on research sure it makes a lot of sense But really, if you start to define what does it mean, like, what are the outcomes that you're looking for?
So for that example I used, I want to be able to handle the reality of my children's lives without feeling so overwhelmed that I feel like, man, I don't really even want to be fully present. You know, and start to define, for each, each of us define those recovery milestones. And they plateau and they keep going right through my I through [00:26:00] my own therapeutic work.
I always I feel like man i've really tried really hard at therapy, but I always find something to do To work on life keeps throwing me more curve balls And then I have to define what I'm going to do with those things rather than stagnate. And that's okay. Um, but making it about that, what's the current challenge you have versus numbering days?
Um, cause that's, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
Graham Doerge: Sorry. Yeah. A hundred percent. No, no. And, and no, I totally agree. You know, that, that conversation of, you know, how long is this going to take? And hey, listen, it takes what it takes, you know, and, and it's like, you know, the only thing that I had to change was. Everything, you know, and, and those are all kind of, you know, slogans, whatever you want to call it, but, uh, that's just the reality.
And the person that I am today has is so far from the person that I was when I was 25 years old. Right. And, um, you know, I really even look at it as like act one and act two, [00:27:00] you know, and, uh, you know, obviously I struggled in that first act and, but, you know. In the same respect, I wouldn't change anything because all of those things that I went through that I experienced, the hardships, that's who, that's who I am now.
That's what made me who I am. And, you know, it's like, um, you know, people look at this, at this as being such a detrimental crisis. Right. And, and the reality is, I think a lot of us look back on it five, 10 years down the line and we're like, God, thank God that that happened to me because I have so much more empathy.
I have so much more compassion. I have so much more just like awareness for, uh, How to treat people well, you know, and how to have a connection in a relationship and all those things, you know, and having fellowship. I mean, I, I think we're truly lucky to have, you know, the resources that we have an AA and these, these amazing 12 step fellowships, you know, it would be great if a lot of people had these, uh, these in their regular life.
I think our world would be a much different place if people had a place to go like that. It's true. So that being said, I [00:28:00] also wanted to talk a little bit about, um, the pain management program that you guys have, because that's pretty unique to you all. There's not a lot of folks that are doing it in, in the way that you guys are.
So, um, and that's a real problem. You know, we've got a lot of young adults or not young adults, sorry, older adults who are, you know, having chronic pain issues, they've had accidents, they've had falls, they get prescribed pills by doctors and before they know it. They're hooked. They're addicted. They're physically addicted and they don't know how to get off.
Right. And a lot of times it's psychosomatic and there's, you know, a lot of complex, you know, issues with that. So, um, you guys have an incredible, uh, team, uh, handling that over there. So you want to dig into that a little bit? 
Brad Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, talk about coming by it fairly to your point, Graham is, uh, you know, you have a number of injuries.
Doctors often are prescribing drugs that trigger something genetically that then triggers a whole addictive process that maybe that person wasn't [00:29:00] actively seeking, but literally fell into on the ski mountain or through playing sports or other things. And then they look up one day and they're, they're physiologically and psychologically dependent.
And so for people that have that kind of chronic pain and addiction tendency, we've designed a program because they're, they're, uh, defenses and they're, the way to engage that crowd can be a little different, right? And the guy who is stuck in frat party mode or something like that, you know, it's a different presentation.
Um, and we've had athletes and other things in that program. And really what we're trying to do is if they've, they've, Look at all the medical issues that are there, right? They've had the surgeries, things have been dealt with to maximum medical benefit, but the substance use is still there. We're looking to change their psychological relationship to pain.
Right. And there's regions and neural pathways in your brain that could [00:30:00] just get. The end of this pain and this stress is through taking this medication. And the sad part is, you're right. But, the end result of, uh, tolerance and habituation to those medications that were designed to be short term to help you recover from a hip surgery, shoulder surgery, going through all the surgeries I've had, uh, uh, like, those things that were designed to be band aids on that.
We're not designed to be lifelong medications in that way. 100%. And so we work. And 
Graham Doerge: in fact, they stopped working in a lot of cases, 
Brad Kennedy: right? Yeah, exactly. They, people become, there's a loss of like feeling psychologically and physiologically. Like what am I, why am I even taking this? Um, and so we work with people to identify the feelings in their body.
Um, and really start to see are they fused to other things? Uh, that are fueling. I think we call [00:31:00] it like the psychological underpinnings of that form of addiction. So is it a fear that this chronic condition is going to get worse? Can we find exceptions to the pain through experiential activities, sometimes as simple as walking or water aerobics or hanging out?
We have awesome trainers here that will find exercises that people can do is pain free as It is possible. We have hand bikes, things like that, where we're, we're trying to find the experience where you're moving, but you're like, not feeling that physiological pain. 
Graham Doerge: But so much of the time too, I feel like it's the fact that these people haven't been moving.
Right. And you know, just doing some yoga and doing some movement and just kind of like restorative yoga, very light. Yep. It's getting the blood flow and getting and building some strength to whether it's, you know, I know a lot of people have these back issues and it's, you know, a lot of times it's, you know, your core, right?
It's like we've got to build some strength there too. And obviously if there's a real injury, [00:32:00] that's one thing. But, um, doing that slowly and surely I know you guys work on that. 
Brad Kennedy: Yeah. When you, when you're having that experience of, Historically, I think it's called like health anxiety, right? If I work out, it's going to happen and it's grounded in 10 percent of reality or maybe more, right?
But it has happened at some point. You need those corrective experiences. And so our. Schedule is chock full of experiential activities. We have no desire to be spa like treatment. I'm sure Graham's heard me come off on this before. That's not our market. If we're doing acupuncture, trauma informed yoga, it's all with the clinical purpose and intent of doing exactly those things that Graham is talking about.
I think Mel pulls it. He had some line like, motion is lotion for your pain or something. It's going to help. Right. So. That's the idea, right? If you can get moving, you can get walking. We have equine therapy. We assembled this broad team to find a way in that [00:33:00] creates a connection and a common factor to help somebody move forward.
Uh, the greatest indicator of therapeutic success is the attachment you feel to the team or individuals you're working with. And so we need to find, and it's not all going to work based on one personality type. So we have different people, different modalities that are going to try to find a way to resonate with that person to get the momentum going.
Um, 
Graham Doerge: that's great. I mean, that's amazing. Yeah. And, and we talk about that all the time about how, um, you know, cause we're doing so much aftercare planning here because a lot of the clients that are coming to us just have no plan, right? I would say probably 75 percent of them. And so our team in a seven to 10 day period is, you know, digging into the case, figuring out where the leverage is really working with the family to hopefully get them on to some sort of longer term, uh, residential and, um, and you know, we're pretty successful, you know, with that.
But, you know, the reality is it's just, it is such a fight. It is such a battle, you know? 
Brad Kennedy: Yeah. It's 
Justin Mclendon: few and [00:34:00] far between, you know, we get that individual that comes in. That's, you know, pre motivated, if you will. Right. They're like, I know I got a problem. I want to make changes. I know I need to do treatment and you guys just need to help me figure out where that's going to be.
Uh, and those are. And getting 
Graham Doerge: really granular with those referrals and saying like, I know Brad Kennedy at Driftwood would be a great fit with this client or I know, you know, whatever that is. I think, you know, pairing the clinical team with our, with our people is rather than just kind of throwing a dart at a dartboard and hoping for the best with a program.
Right. And having that intimate knowledge of. of, of the people we're referring to and who's on the team and 
Brad Kennedy: all that. Yeah, 
Justin Mclendon: and, and to, and I know you guys do some assessment work out there as well, like inpatient assessment program. We do a similar type of program and I just feel, not to again, make this show about that, but I feel like.
Making a referral is one thing, but like really taking the time to understand what's going on with the client. What is their story? What are their actual specific and unique [00:35:00] needs? Uh, and helping them understand what that is so that we can drive referrals based on what is going to be the most effective.
Uh, you know, facility or, or type of program or treatment modality for that person, you know, as we're talking about pain, right? So if we're identifying that, you know, there's chronic pain and we're seeing those type of, you know, psychosomatic or that, you know, they've crossed that threshold into the place where, you know, the continued engagement in the addiction process is likely.
You know, fueled by the anxiety and the fear and things like that, you know, finding a place like, like driftwood, a place that we know is really going to be able to specifically tackle that issue, or if we're seeing that, you know, a lot of these presenting problems that are kind of in front of this person is most likely due to all of this unresolved trauma and these traumatic experiences that they've experienced and just never really come to terms with or been honest with their self about, or they're just completely removed from how that's, you affecting them, trying to find a program that's really going to help them jumpstart that [00:36:00] process.
And, uh, you know, so anyways, not to get on a tangent there, but there's a lot of programs in the country and across and in the world. Right. And, uh, I think giving a good referral is taking that time to understand what's going to be the best for that person. And then of course, the work of motivating that person to, to make that decision 
Brad Kennedy: for themselves.
Right. I agree completely with what you guys are saying. My wife runs our assessment program. We do a full onslaught of psychological testing and we have psychiatrists, other docs that meet with them. There is not a program that is right for everyone and so I know there's no You're what you guys do if I think back to myself and what would have been cool for me as a 18 year old You should send me to an outdoor highly Experiential thing because I'm not gonna sit still long enough by group three to really listen be focused plus.
I'm pretty avoid right so Only about half the people in our assessment program actually stay with us. It's not a designed, [00:37:00] it's designed to get them to the right experience. Um, and make sure that we have the driftwood experience. Does that fit? How do we assemble the team in the right way? How do you have EMDR for trauma a couple times a week?
How do you work on? I rest, which is a evidence based practice form of yoga to really feel it in your body while you're doing this heavy duty lifting of looking at something extremely painful. So I think it's really great and cool that you guys look at it that way. Um, it gives me a 
Graham Doerge: hundred percent. Yeah.
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Well, I mean, listen, this has been so awesome. Can reconnecting with you. Do you want to just give our audience a, uh, your website and maybe have any, any social handles if you have them? 
Brad Kennedy: So I may be the world's worst marketer, so I can give you the website. And 
Graham Doerge: we'll put it all on the, we'll put it all on the, on the podcast.
Everybody can find it there as well, but let's give it to him real 
Brad Kennedy: quick. Yeah. Uh, it's, uh, just [00:38:00] driftwoodrecovery. com. Um, I'm sure we have social media handles and I'm sure I don't know what they are. So I apologize. 
Graham Doerge: All good. All good. And we'll put, we'll put all of that online so that everybody can, um, can find driftwood.
But, um, you know, always, always a pleasure. I always learn something from you whenever we talk. Um, you guys are really just doing revolutionary work out there and, um, just very supportive of what you guys are doing. 
Brad Kennedy: We feel the same about you guys and I just really appreciate you guys thinking of us and giving us some time to talk With you today.
Thank 
Graham Doerge: you so much. Of course All right, brad. Have a great day

Question 2

Show Notes

Accepted Answer

An engaging discussion with Brad Kennedy, the COO and partner at Driftwood Recovery, regarding the unique challenges and innovative methods in helping individuals overcome addiction. Brad elucidates upon the philosophy of fostering self-reliance in their recipients and emphasizes the importance of tailoring treatment based on individual needs rather than purely usage duration. The conversation also touches upon Driftwood's efforts to redefine and treat pain in relation to substance abuse, and developing a recovery plan in line with the individual's time, needs, and resources. Lastly, Brad highlights the significance of a supportive environment and empathy in recovery path.

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00:00 Introduction to the Concept of Being Fully Present
01:15 Introduction of the Hosts and Guest
02:03 Personal Journey into the Field of Recovery
04:10 The Importance of a Strong Clinical Team
05:06 The Philosophy of Driftwood Recovery
05:29 The Concept of Attachment and Sanctuary Model
07:10 The Role of Spirituality in Recovery
09:39 Creating a Supportive and Hopeful Environment
14:52 The Importance of Trust in the Recovery Process
16:20 The Approach to Treatment at Driftwood Recovery
18:46 The Challenge of People Pleasing in Recovery
19:22 The Importance of Co-Creating Solutions in Recovery
20:21 Understanding the Length of Stay in Residential Treatment
20:38 The Importance of Aftercare and Maintaining Momentum
21:05 The Reality of Recovery: It's a Long-Term Commitment
21:20 The Challenges of Staying Present in Recovery
22:00 The Need for Support and Self-Sufficiency in Recovery
22:51 The Role of Therapists in Recovery
23:14 The Importance of Long-Term Recovery Planning
23:39 The Struggles of Discussing Long-Term Recovery with Clients
24:08 The Goal of Self-Care and Independence in Recovery
25:00 The Role of Personal Values in Recovery
25:22 The Problem with Measuring Recovery by Number of Days
25:40 The Importance of Defining Personal Recovery Milestones
27:58 The Reality of Chronic Pain and Addiction
28:40 The Unique Approach to Pain Management at Driftwood
33:36 The Importance of Personalized Treatment and Referrals
37:33 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Navigating the Road to Recovery: A Discussion with Brad Kennedy from Driftwood Recovery