Justin Mclendon: [00:00:00] If the prognosis is good and we can potentially try just, you know, sobriety and therapy and support and things like that that is a. Much easier thing to deal with. I think that yeah alternatives,

Dr. Sheila Shilati: right? Yeah, I mean and I think that's yeah It's a critical Graham and I were talking about this last week going to a place like new waters and getting this kind of Evaluation should actually be the first step that you take agree You know, it's like you go and you get your health assessment.

They take you draw every lab possible. They take your weight They go look at your nutrition, then, you know, you blow on the little tube, you're like, Oh great, you know, my lungs work. So it's, why are we not doing that?[00:01:00]

Graham Doerge: Good afternoon. My name is Graham Doerge, and I'm the founder and CEO of New Waters Recovery in Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome to our weekly podcast, Finding New Waters. Our goal in creating Finding New Waters is to provide a resource for families to help navigate the complexities of supporting a loved one struggling with substance use or mental health.

When we find ourselves in crisis due to one of these issues, most people have no idea where to turn. We hope to shed some light onto what is often the darkest hour for many families. I'm joined here today by our executive director, Justin McClendon, and Dr. Sheila Shalati. Dr. Shalati has been in the field of behavioral health for more than 20 years.

She has served as an international ambassador and participant on two separate expeditions in the Middle East and Africa, working directly with victims of natural disasters and HIV and AIDS. She has guest lectured at several universities and colleges, including California State University, Pepperdine University, California Lutheran University, and Oxnard College.[00:02:00]

Sheila has served as a media consultant for various outlets to discuss general trends in the rehabilitative industry, and Sheila has served as chief operating officer for more than 13 years at seasons recovery centers. She oversees all day to day management, including, but not limited to standards of practice, employee relations, licensing, organizational compliance and corporate infrastructure.

She is highly regarded for her leadership, integrity, and cultivating a culture of inclusivity and equity. Sheila received her B. A. from the University of California at Santa Barbara in 2001, and her doctorate degree from the Phillips Graduate Institute in 2009. That's a very nice bio. Yes, you're, so you're very well qualified.

To to be on this podcast and obviously to discuss you know, substance use and kind of the work that we do here on a daily basis. And you know, I would love to just start off, you know, getting a little bit more background and just kind of, you know, your personal story, how you came into this work, [00:03:00] what drove you to this work and just how you came to it.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Well, I mean, my original intention in life was to be a very successful writer in New York city. So clearly that worked out. Well,

I had a dream we make plans and God laughs at him generally. Yeah. He's like, Oh, what's your plan for today? Let me see what I've got going on. I was fortunate. I mean, I think, I feel like at the end of the day, this work kind of really finds us. Right where we have our own personal journeys. We have our experiences that contribute to kind of our passions or how we want to be of service.

Obviously, at one point in my life, I thought I was going to save the world and made attempts to do so, whatever that may have looked like. But then I got realistic and in terms of more pragmatic and what was going to be applicable. And I think Administration and [00:04:00] entrepreneurship and just kind of business is it was a natural fit.

I think I just really liked also telling people what to do. So that's, but on the flip side, I think, you know, just the deep fascination and depth of understanding you know, the human construction on an emotional and behavioral level. And the recognition that we're all just really wounded and we're just all seeking a way to feel seen and heard at the core of all of everything that we go through, right, is to just be a part of so this work you know, I mean, that's that, that bio, like I was like, Oh, that's a few years old.

I mean, I'm in my 13th year now. What seasons, what a privilege and beautiful opportunity to be of service and cultivated that beautiful organization and relationship with the people and the clients and the staff that are all there. But it all kind of started as a way of just an entry point through, you know, just working clinically with [00:05:00] clients and then kind of morphed into something that felt more.

Developmental and things that I can really contribute to on a more systemic level and then kind of what happens from there and obviously relationships with great individuals that, you know, I was just having this conversation, you know, the connection we have as a community of providers. I mean, you know, and I'll speak, you know, candidly enough to say, you know, new waters has represented themselves extraordinarily well with a very personal situation of mine.

And not only was I thoroughly impressed, which is hard to do, because I hold a pretty high standard, but just the comfort and the ease at which when we really come together to collaborate and to be of service to this really wounded and deeply, thank you. You know, needing community. It's really a beautiful gift.

So my route here was circuitous, but yet it's like when I came in, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but now as a [00:06:00] mature adult, adulting my way through life in many ways, I'm like, Oh I understand more of my purpose of why I'm here now. And how I see it. That's great.

Graham Doerge: Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, that, you know, what you kind of just touched on there that what I was thinking of was, yes, we have such an incredible, it's an amazing industry, right?

Because it's a very intimate, very small industry in so many regards where we all kind of know each other and like all the kind of good providers and the good ethical programs are all kind of work very closely together and kind of hand in hand. And. Yeah. Refer patients and all that. And it's really a beautiful thing.

And it's just so it's a kind of perplexing because families have no idea how to access that. Right, right. And it's so perplexing and like how, and that's why we created this podcast was one of the kind of core reasons is that we wanted to create resources for people and get that information out there.

Like what is an intervention? What is, you know, what all this information that we take for granted and we just know so [00:07:00] intimately what to do is, you know, as I said, kind of. People's worst hour, right? And so it's a complex issue and I don't know what the answer is at this point, but hopefully, you know, just getting content out there and having conversations like this and de stigmatizing things and, you know, just having those conversations will help, you know?

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead.

Justin Mclendon: No, I was just going to mention you were, when you were saying that, so we have one of our staff members that recently switched positions and is now working in a continued, continued care department. And it was just really an interesting observation. So she's been doing that job for about a couple of weeks now.

So like very early in that process. And she actually just said to me yesterday, she was like, I had no idea, just kind of talking about the treatment community in general, across the country, because she's just. Dove right in and she's talking to facilities all over the place and she's like, I had no idea as, as big as this community is.

It seems like everybody knows each other and I [00:08:00] was like, yeah it's kind of true, you know, which is neat.

Graham Doerge: Just need all the good people know each other. That's true. There you go, right? You know, there's obviously places that are not operating on ethical grounds and, you know, those are typically the places that, you know, are under the rafter or whatever the term is, but yeah, I mean, it's, it is very interesting how we all kind of, you know, work very closely together and yeah, and however we can kind of, you know, create these resources for people is just going to be so beneficial moving forward.

So, now, 1 of the things that we kind of talked about, we were thinking about a topic of discussion here, and I love to talk about. Seasons of Malibu too. Maybe before we get into that and just you know, tell us a little bit about seasons and specifically What do you guys focus on? What's your kind of niche?

What's your perfect client? And if you can just kind of tell us a little bit about the program

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Yeah perfect client a motivated one, right?

Justin Mclendon: There you go

Dr. Sheila Shilati: I've been fairly fortunate, you know, we're privately Owned [00:09:00] organization, so it's afforded me an extraordinary amount of flexibility and capacity to attend to the client's needs in a variety of ways without kind of having to go to the higher up.

So what do you think? Or, you know, the cost containment in the same way you think about it. If a venture capital firm owns the organization and just the bureaucracy of all of that. So, you know, with seasons. Being there as long as I have I've got the great good fortune of a high level of staff retention, call it visionary leadership No, I mean, it's really which is not

Graham Doerge: hard.

It's not easy to do I mean we're dealing with this here and there's so much turnover in this field Unfortunately, because it is just it's a it's the burnout is so high It's high intensity. It's you know, it really is a tough thing to do. So yeah, I mean I would love to understand how you have retention as well?

Dr. Sheila Shilati: You know, I think it's a lot of there's I don't know if it's A secret as much as it is just [00:10:00] attending to the people that are caring for the people coming in, you know, care for your people. And I know that in a lot of ways, people appreciate that in financial compensation. That makes sense.

But I think the. The value, I think there's a lot of people that also understand the value of being able to shoot their supervisor and text and say, you know, I just, I need a mental day. I'm feeling burnt out, you know, and they're not being any consequences to that. You know, I feeling like you can come and talk to the COO.

If you need to problem solve, there's not this way. I've also learned the benefit of great boundaries and not being as accessible. There's kind of this way that. Yeah. That I have a responsibility to attend and pay attention, but it's also in just the little things, you know, knowing the names of all of your employees and information about them, that it's relational.

At the end of the day, they feel if your employees feel seen, then they feel taken care of. If they know that upper management is just taking the time to [00:11:00] ask them, you know, oftentimes I'll bring people in and I'll sit them down in the office and go, what would you like to do? Where do you see yourself?

How can I help you achieve that goal? And I'm not sure there's too many COOs. That are willing to kind of engage in that way and really take a genuine interest. I'm not sure. You know, at the end of the day, you're going to have some level of turnover. It's the nature of some of these entry level positions and people are figuring it out.

But I think that trickles down to the client experience, right? And what people have come and what seasons is kind of known for is that level of care taking and attention to. Quality control, and that's where I get, you know, maybe my own control issues come up. Great. This is a good purpose for them to be incorporated and utilize because that representation matters.

It matters for the referent who's sending the individual or trying for them to decide where they want to go and offering them, you know, appropriately 3 different [00:12:00] choices. And, you know, but it's different when I get on the line and. I have an accountability to them. Now. Now the client is going, okay, we were on that call.

You said, you know, so it kind of takes away the pressure of the refer and having to feel like, oh my God, I'm on edge. Are they going to follow through? Because then I just, you know, the organization I take over, we have a very. collaborative engagement transparency. So it actually makes the process pretty seamless.

And listen, we have extraordinary care and sophisticated treatment, but even when we don't bat a thousand, there's no questions as to why it didn't work out, right? Nobody's left in the dark going, well, who didn't communicate this to me? And why did it, then I know about X, Y, and Z. So, you know, the.

We're 24 beds in Malibu, all luxury homes, four of them, three of them are licensed for primary substance use dual diagnosis. And we do have a license that treats primary mental [00:13:00] health. So I think I always want to make the distinction. People say they treat it. We're actually licensed to treat it have been since big difference.

It's a big difference, right? People, you know, super often gets confused, but we have doctors that only treat licensed doctors. Well,

Graham Doerge: and those are some of those questions that people don't know to ask, right? And that's, you know, kind of the point of highlighting some of those things are like, what are the questions that we ask when we're calling these facilities, right?

Right. So, you know, you don't know what you don't know. So that's an awesome point. I love that.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Yeah. No, I appreciate it. Yeah. And it's just that we don't, again, no offense against like interns trying to get their hours, but when you're paying the kind of money you do to come to seasons, you want to see experts in their field, you know, licensed professionals that have been doing this a long time.

Graham Doerge: And correct me if I'm not wrong, all of your therapists are are doctorate level.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Yeah. All of them. Yeah. Which

Graham Doerge: is pretty unique. There's not a lot of programs that have their whole clinical team as doctorate level candidates. So, that's huge. [00:14:00] Thank

Dr. Sheila Shilati: you. And again it's, if we've invested, it's been in the, you know, you get those feedback forms at the end that gives, you know, like we always, I'm always proud to say we get two of the highest ratings in terms of those feedback surveys, one of them being.

They got what they expected to get in the clinical was top notch, you know, and the second one is, yeah it's, I do have a lot of pride around it. And the second one being, you know, up to 95 percent of people would refer a friend or a loved one back, you know, to come and receive services. So it's.

It's something that I think we genuinely, I go, listen, if we nailed it on those things. Fantastic. You know, you didn't do it on Tuesday. No worries. I can deal with that.

Graham Doerge: That's not as important

Dr. Sheila Shilati: as the five quilted standard that you were hoping. Okay. You know, these are manageable. So it just everybody's different, but I treat adults.

That's kind of my mentality. I treat people that are highly motivated. I really assess for the fit in the [00:15:00] milieu. I don't have to take everybody. It's a great position to be in. We've earned it. You know, we've got to get here and we feel really good. So we stay in our lane. We do good work. We work with our collaborators and just kind of keep it clean.

Graham Doerge: Actually was just out there visiting your program last week. So I saw it in person live and it is absolutely fabulous. So, you know, we definitely highly recommend it to really anybody who needs the services and. You know, kind of the change pace here a little bit. One of the things that we kind of talked about last week and leading up to this was, you know, the increase in cannabis cannabis induced psychosis, right?

And we've been seeing a whole lot of that. I know, Justin, you know, you can speak to that extensively, but let's talk a little bit about. You know, just the increase in that, the Delta eight, the, you know, all these synthetic drugs that are coming online and obviously being sold in gas stations everywhere.

But how's your experience been out there in California and what are you guys seeing out there? [00:16:00] Probably

Dr. Sheila Shilati: similar to yours. I'd love to hear your experience as well. It's. been you know, largely initially it was kind of anecdotal and head scratching where we would get these cases of perfectly healthy, generally, mostly leaning towards men, but we get some women that would have either an acute psychotic episode or, you know, instances of more chronic psychosis, but you didn't have this kind of genesis of.

You know, kind of correlation of how you can route where it came from per se, you know, so you're looking at it. Diagnostically, you're trying to kind of rule out. Okay. Is it is where you pro drama and do this come on? Yeah, but they don't maybe they don't have a significant family history. It just didn't quite add up.

But the 1 thing that the through line that was consistent was daily cannabis use starting from a fairly young age. You know, or maybe it was intermittent, but then it peaked up at [00:17:00] like 18 to like 22, whatever there's this way in which then it turns into this complete departure from like normative functioning.

And it just everyone, the family system, the client, it's, it looks like a true psychotic rake. So we would get clients that, you know, we're on the top of like. Bridges ready to jump in the middle or they were taken down by the police because, you know, they were running naked in the streets and, you know, and the

one

Graham Doerge: and most of these cases, most of these cases are young adults, primarily.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would say, you know, we treat only 18 and older, but you know, I imagine you hear it even more in adolescence. But for us, it's like that, that 22, 26, 27. And now when I kind of hear the symptoms of the presentation and we'll [00:18:00] get the kind of conceptualization, I'm like, did they smoke?

Did they smoke pot every day? They're like, yeah, okay. So it's been this kind of really terrifying and an epidemic that I think is starting to really take shape. And we as providers, I think we're having more and more discussions. The research is starting to give us more information. There's no.

Argument against the potential and the active piece of an acute psychotic episode due to cannabis intoxication. I think the professionals all agree that is very real that happens. It's just the duration at which that occurs is typically while it's active in your body and doing it's thing the more kind of.

Evidence that is leaning towards and again, there's a ton of confounding variables. Why we have chronic psychosis you know, chronic [00:19:00] thought disorders, any of those things. So you kind of are. Peeling it up, but safe to say that daily cannabis use at a young age could certainly exacerbate the potential for somebody to kind of activate those symptoms within the changing of the brain structure.

And then now you've got your 25 year old who will have to be on, you know, mood stabilizers for the rest of their life.

Graham Doerge: It's scary. And you know, I had a little experience with this with my nephew who we put into a treatment program when he was about 16 and went to a wilderness program out in Utah.

And he had a great experience and ended up staying out there for a year and finishing school out there. And it really was a great thing. But when I, my brother, you know, called me and they were having an issue and trying to kind of figure out, luckily he had me to call to say, what do we do here?

And I was able to kind of put him in touch with the appropriate people and got him in touch with an educational consultant because I was just too close to the case. Right. And I needed somebody else to step in and really manage it. [00:20:00] And and you know, the piece with what I told my brother was, you know, listen, he's 16 years old.

The reality that he's going to be sober for the rest of his life is very unlikely. Right. But we can plant the seed at this point and we can start to do some work. And if we can even get them from like 16 to 18 or 19 without. Smoking weeded every day. Like that's a big win. Yeah. Right. So, you know, he's now in college at the University of Denver and he's doing really well.

And he's not, you know, sober, quote unquote, but he's handling it. And maybe he wasn't an addict, right. And maybe he, you know, he is just spiraling out at some point and just never cress crossed that threshold at that point. And we were able to kind of catch it soon enough. Time will tell, but even if that happens, like we know what to do and he knows what to do, right?

He's been through this. He has so much self awareness. He's gotten so much education around it. So he kind of knows what to do in that scenario. But you know, I do think that it, and with like, you know, legalization of cannabis out in California, I just wonder if you even see if you saw any correlation there when they [00:21:00] legalized weed and a spike in this you know, psychosis or anything like that.

But, you know, the thing that even concerns me more. Is, you know, the delta eight and all the synthetic, you know, substances that are being sold and the THC a and the, you know, God knows what new strain or, you know, chemical they've created. So, you know, I feel like that is really the stuff, you know, being here in North Carolina where kids can't get.

Weed very easily, you know, or legally, and they're just going to buy in this delta aid stuff and it's lighting

Justin Mclendon: them on fire. Yeah, and that's, you know, I was thinking the same thing about the legalization in California and how, you know, maybe that what your observations are around that Dr. Shalati, but here to your point, Graham.

So we see the same thing you know, especially in our assessment track. I mean, we do see individuals coming in to the detox kind of part of our program that are showing a similar presentation, but we have seen a lot of it in the assessment track. Similar to your point, Dr. Shalati is that, you know, the parents, whoever else is involved you know, they're scratching their [00:22:00] heads, right?

They're like, Hey, this is going on. There's been this psychotic episode. There's been hospitalization. There's been a suicide attempt. There's no history of this. There's the, you know, the THC use and we've just got the same as you said. I mean, we've gotten to the point where it's like immediately you're like, we know exactly what's going on here.

We've seen this a number of times already, but here, I mean, we do have some people, a lot of people that come in from outside of the state for that assessment program, but a lot of them are within North Carolina where it's not legal yet. So it's these Delta derivatives and things like that. But yeah, that, so anyways, long way to get to that same question is, so I wonder.

What your observations have been since the legalization in California, because I would imagine that is totally

Dr. Sheila Shilati: different. Well, yeah, and I think, remember, everybody had their medical card before

Graham Doerge: it got true. It's been a while. Yeah, 20

Justin Mclendon: years, at least.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Okay. Yeah. So kind of the introduction of the, yeah, the legalization of cannabis, you [00:23:00] know, is something we've been attempting to, like, look at And listen, I'm, you know, I think the reality is every the medicinal purposes, the application of the uses of, you know, when under appropriate measures and oversight has tremendous impacts and effects.

We know that you can't argue with the literature that's. What's this? So, you know, I want to be careful not to create this kind of, you know, idea that my opinion on any of this isn't right. We're just kind of speaking to a reality as a parent. We're all parents. This is something we have to think about.

And I think we kind of have this social, we've kind of taken a social exhale that like, okay, cannabis is okay. It's all right. Like my kids, it's not the worst thing they could be doing, you know, right. Yeah. But unless they have an

Graham Doerge: underlying mental health issue, right? Which you don't know, you know, it had either an external or 20, right?

Yeah. Right. [00:24:00] Yeah.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Man. Do you ever see something that's like, Oh, I have a, I have no issue at all. Yeah, seriously. Some spectrum of like 100 percent you spend enough time on social media, you have some sort of like generalized anxiety disorder. So sure. Absolutely. You know, so yes, the severity, the prodromal effects, the attention to.

Parent attitudes, a lot of parents smoke with their kids, you know, so listen I'm not the, I'm the bearer of fun, not the take away or a fun, but at the same time, I think there needs to be such a deep sense of understanding and education that you're 16, you're 18, you're 20 year old, you're 22 year old, you know, the, we all know the developed Being brain works, you know, is still working towards finishing up by 25, 28, maybe a little bit later for males.

Cause it's okay. You guys are a little slower.[00:25:00]

Graham Doerge: Knew that was going, but,

Dr. Sheila Shilati: We're it's scary. Like, I really do mean to insert some of that kind of. Reality and kind of the fear and being more vigilant about teenagers really kind of getting into this and what this means. And it's funny to, you know, you think about it in this way, because just because we can't see what's going on with the brain, you know, but it's like we smoke cannabis and it gave you like acne.

Right? Right. Like most of the time, you know, people will be like, Oh, I don't really, you know, anything specific or, Oh, you'd get these bumps on your arms or whatever. It's like, if we can see it, you're like, Oh, that's not really for me. If we were talking about, you know, somebody having cancer and going, okay, here's this, Save you, you know, and actually it's just, I think our, the way we kind of the lens in which we think about things and normalize it is [00:26:00] very distorted, you know, that's the society.

Everything's distorted. So

Graham Doerge: find

Dr. Sheila Shilati: your

Justin Mclendon: path. Yeah,

Dr. Sheila Shilati: I'm curious what you guys are seeing at the detox there and especially in your evaluations, because you guys have you know, such resources and accessibility to kind of, you know, what is, what kind of through lines are you guys coming up with? Well,

Justin Mclendon: especially when it comes to the cannabis topic specifically, I mean, we have had a lot of luck with, you know, this particular kind of like, this particular client that we're talking about, right?

You know, young adult, as you mentioned, a lot of times male actually. I would struggle to think of a time where it was a female right now, right off the top of my head, but you know, that, that has a similar presentation and, you know, so we can get a lot of history, we can understand about what's going on with the substance use, where it came from, if there's any causation there and things like that, but [00:27:00] as you mentioned, Dr.

Shalati, I think like the effects And the presentation that we're seeing with that person is very neurological in nature. We've seen a lot of success just in, in simply the person you know, discontinuing the use and being able to remain sober and just kind of the natural healing process that can take place there.

We've seen a lot of young adult males be able to, you know, stabilize here. Get some good data, but tracking them also over that next, you know, three months, six months period to see kind of what's going on and have seen a ton of success in them being able to clear and really not to have any kind of recurrence of any of those psychotic symptoms or anything like that.

But then, unfortunately, there are some times, as you alluded to where maybe the damage is just, it's a little bit more permanent, right, and there's going to be some pharmacological intervention that's needed in order to kind of stabilize, and then, unfortunately, not seeing as much of that clearing, and it becomes a pretty obvious situation to where They're [00:28:00] going to need some type of medication for the foreseeable future in order to remain stable.

But yeah, it is very, it's very interesting. How, you know, the occurrence of what's going on is very neurological in nature. You know, as to where I think, not to say that it's so drastically different from other. Substances, I mean, you know, everybody comes about that however they come about it, right?

Whether there's trauma, there's other things, it's experimental use, I mean, like, however they got there, so some of that part is the same, but how it affects them and the severity of the symptoms and things like that is very brain based, you know?

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think if you take into consideration, like if someone comes in there diabetic and they go, okay, yeah, no, you're susceptible to this and this, you know, information ago.

Oh, gosh, if I, but when we're not given that information, we don't have that. And you're just kind of, yeah. You know, filling your brain with whatever substance. Yeah, I mean, we all get this and understand this. And the more that [00:29:00] we listen, it's all about education at the end of the day, you know, listen, systemically, we've seen a greater incidence of people just talking about their mental health.

And exposing more to mental health and giving opportunities for us to normalize mental health, you know, I mean, I can't even go to my kids school now without every parent talking about who their therapist is, you know, we're just like, yeah, you know, are they open, do they have an opening? So it's nice to kind of like work towards normalizing that and yeah.

That experience and it not being like in our community or in recovery, we're just like, you know, I think we take for granted that we're so accustomed to these conversations that you forget. Sure. Then operates and where and we're in a beautiful position to continue. And I love that you guys are doing this to just educate and give access to because, you know, it's important information and we're going to have our own ideas.

Justin Mclendon: It is. And I think. [00:30:00] I don't know, it just came, it came up for me when you were saying that the education piece, I think it's also just really refreshing a lot of the times, again, unfortunately, sometimes there's more of a permanent situation that's resulted from this, but a lot of times, you know, when the families come in and they, again, they're scratching their heads, they don't know what's going on.

There's been this event for us to be able to do the assessment and sit back and say like, Hey guys, this is very likely caused by the cannabis that you're using. Right. Yeah. It at least gives them like a target something to focus on. It's like, okay, like, you know, my son doesn't have, you know, schizophrenia, right?

Or there's not some other kind of organic condition that is going to be kind of, you know, life altering for him and also for our family system, but it's like, okay, like, Yeah. This is a thing, right? So it's almost like a relief. I think in some ways, right? They're like, okay, well, if the prognosis is good and we can potentially try just, you know, sobriety and therapy and support and things like that that is a much easier [00:31:00] thing to deal with.

I think that alternatives, right? Right.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: As a parent. Yeah. I mean, and I think that's why it's so critical. Graham and I were talking about this last week, going to a place like new waters and getting this kind of evaluation should actually be the First step that you take into consideration, you know, it's like you go and you get your health assessment.

They take you draw every lab possible. They take your weight. They go look at your nutrition. Then, you know, you blow on the little tube. You're like, Oh, great. You know, my lungs were so it's, why are we not doing that? On a mental 100 percent

Graham Doerge: to go

Dr. Sheila Shilati: to one targeted thing. And you're like, this is it. It's just this right here.

We can,

Graham Doerge: this is it. And we know these guys do pretty good work. So we're, it's not even like, you know, we're going to send it this program because of this therapist that specializes in this, you know, we'll work well with this guy. Right. And I think that's where we need to get really granular. But you're a hundred percent on the money.

Yeah.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: No. And it's,

Justin Mclendon: it's so funny that it's true. And obviously we are biased and we [00:32:00] believe that as well. Right. We should do good assessment before there's recommendation and treatment. Right. But it's just interesting that our industry doesn't handle it that way, but if you go back to like. The graduate school days, right, Dr.

Shalati? Like, that's what we were taught is that you assess before you do anything else. But unfortunately in our industry, like, we just don't really do that.

Graham Doerge: Well, we're trying to change that. We're trying to change it. That's right. Yeah. I would love to know. So remind me again, how many kids you have?

Two, two, that's right. Boy, girl. Yeah, that's right. You had two and you were done where I had three girls and we're still trying for a boy. So, not really. But anyway, I just wanted to know, like, have you put some thought into like how you're going to navigate that with your kids? You know, that's I think about that all the time.

I don't have an answer really at this point because my kids are still, you know, nine, eight and five, but like, yeah, at some point, Probably in the near future, we're going to start having those conversations [00:33:00] about cannabis and about, you know, what their friends are doing and all this stuff, you know, I having three daughters, you know, my like biggest fear is obviously like in eating disorder issue or anything like that.

And, you know, because that just to me is just so complex and it's, you know, it's substances, you know, we can stop using substances, but you gotta eat right. So such a different thing animal, but. You know, I just would love to hear kind of what your thoughts are around that and how to kind of have those early conversations with kids.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Yeah, I mean, listen I get as far, my kids are like 6 and almost 3, so we've got some, so my stress is really related to making sure like they get dressed in the morning and timing from necessity to negotiate. It's a constant yeah. So I, but I, oh gosh. You know, the, I was about to curse and I stopped myself.

I'm so proud. . It's curse. It's free

Graham Doerge: zone.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: They . The hardest part, I think about us having the [00:34:00] knowledge that we do is just that I think we're super sensitive and hyper sensitive to . The impacts and having the awareness around environmental factors, interactions, you know, school based interactions, romantic interactions what they're exposed to on television, their processes and ideologies around, you know, who they want to be and narrative, you know, on and on.

So, and to recognize kind of how that forms and shapes their imprinting that then generates the like. Narrative of, you know, good enough, not good enough value. You know, it just we can kind of compartmentalize each one of these and have an hour long discussion on it. So I think, you know, 1 of the benefits and.

Of being in a city that I think is more progressive than most when it comes to social emotional considerations and in school systems, I think about it that [00:35:00] way is that they're already learning tools to exercise that muscle in an effective way. And it's being endorsed by the school system. It's being endorsed by the family system.

I mean, we're all. Like kids of baby boomers. So we have lots of stories to tell about managing our parents expectations and lack of oversight. And, you know, boundaries, what boundaries, you know, you see the, we'll just

Graham Doerge: sweep it under the rug. We're not going to talk about that. That's uncomfortable.

Hey, you know

Dr. Sheila Shilati: what? What are these feelings? You know, emotions. And so I'm always I'm I even find myself struck sometimes too. And I'm like, recognizing how well my daughter might be discussing like a feeling or an experience. Or she said the other day, she goes, well, mama, like, That's my thinking, and I get to change my mind if I want to, and I was like, Yeah,

Graham Doerge: yeah, you're like, whoa, you're correct.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Yes, you do, but [00:36:00] still do as I tell you to.

Graham Doerge: Right, right, totally. Yeah, no, it's, No, you go, I would cut you off.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Yeah, it's the, but it is just that. We're developing the generation, generations behind ours are developing better tools than we had. To talk about those

Justin Mclendon: things.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Absolutely. That translates.

Graham Doerge: Yeah, and I think to like at least in my house, you know, my wife and I are both in recovery So they've never been in a house with substances alcohol Like there's no booze in our house and you know people friends come over and I'm fine with having alcohol in the house and having friends drinking all that stuff, But for the most part, they're just not around it.

It's not a thing. They don't even know what it really is, you know so I think that like growing up in that Environment probably will have some sort of a shift for them to and, you know, just not kind of where I grew up. It was, you know, cocktail every evening. That's what you did. You know, at the end of the day, you had your cheese and crackers and your scotch on the rocks.

And, you know, that was how you handled life. [00:37:00] So

Justin Mclendon: The other thing, too, is and I think about this a lot because, I mean, I don't know about you, Dr Salati, but I think for me and Graham in any way, we take a little bit of work home with us from time to time. But I think the You know, they wind up hearing the phone calls and the this and the that.

So there's also this like a, this layer of exposure to like, you know, what the dangers or the downsides of using, you know, alcohol and other substances can look like. Right. So I think that, I hope anyway, knock on wood somewhere that's can also add some value for them.

Graham Doerge: A hundred percent.

And listen, if there's ever a problem, we know what to do.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: That's the gift of doing what we do or having the resources or knowing that, you know, it's just listen, it's just like your relative or your friend being an MD. Right? I don't know. I don't hesitate to get their free. Feedback. Absolutely. Oh man so. Yep. Yep. Or also, I'll literally send pictures.

I'll be like, what is this? What, you [00:38:00] know. I love it.

Graham Doerge: I love it. Well, it's better than WebMD. That's for sure. Yeah. Generally.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Generally speaking, takes away the hypochondriasis. There

Graham Doerge: you go. Well, I mean, this has been a great conversation and I really appreciate you coming on and just sharing us a little bit about your program and your heart and, you know, all of this.

It's always so nice connecting with you and collaborating on cases and all of that. So why don't we, can you just share with people where everybody could find you, maybe your website and possibly like a, maybe social media or something.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: Yeah. Oh, I, you know, I'm the wor first off I have zero social media, so you's Oh, good for you.

Excuse. Yeah, I don't even have a LinkedIn, which I get yelled at often. Alright. I know. This is just how I just, this is how Incognito,

Graham Doerge: don't worry. We'll get you, we'll get you up to speed. I'll come out there. We'll sit down. Right?

Dr. Sheila Shilati: I know, right? You'll be like here. Listen, I checked on my phone.

I'll give you this quick tidbit and I'll give you the website. Yeah. But it's seasons malibu.com, and that will have all the [00:39:00] information. But I don't ever check the stats on how many times you pick up your phone in a day. It's terrifying.

Graham Doerge: It's very Oh, I didn't know there was that stat.

Dr. Sheila Shilati: There is. It tells you how much time you spend on which app. How much basically, it's like how much time you waste. Wow. Okay. I'm

Graham Doerge: going to look at that

Justin Mclendon: account. I am not going to look at

Dr. Sheila Shilati: that. It was like 140 in one day of like,

Graham Doerge: yeah, we'll start having we'll just compare and screenshots on how dysfunctional we are with our technology circle.

Right. Not doing well today, 6, 000 steps. And I pick up my phone 250 times. Okay. Exactly, not a productive day. So, so fun talking to you, Dr. Schade. Appreciate it. Yes, thank you. Thank you ma'am. And we'll we'll see you soon. And seasons malibu.com. If you guys want any information on [00:40:00] seasons and always, you can reach out to us at new waters recovery.com.

Thank you all. Awesome. Have a great day.

Join us in this episode of Finding New Waters Recovery podcast, where we delve into the heart of addiction treatment with Dr. Sheila Shilati of Seasons in Malibu. As the Chief Operating Officer with over seventeen years of experience in behavioral health, Dr. Shilati illuminates the sophisticated and compassionate care approaches at Seasons in Malibu, a renowned center for addiction recovery. She shares her global experiences, including work with disaster victims and HIV/AIDS initiatives, and her role in media consultation on rehabilitation trends. The conversation also explores her dedication to cultivating a culture of inclusivity, her educational journey, and the leadership that has significantly impacted Seasons Recovery Centers. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the nuances of addiction treatment and the innovative methods employed at Seasons in Malibu.

For more information about Dr. Sheila Shilati and Seasons in Malibu, you can visit their website or contact them directly at Seasons in Malibu ⁠https://seasonsmalibu.com/⁠ or by calling 866.934.3402.

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