#013 Issac Waters

Issac Waters: [00:00:00] I think a big thing. About like interventions today is that historically and what you saw on TV was this like surprise factor. Like let's trick your loved one into coming to a place where they're not gonna be comfortable, where they're gonna have their guard up and where they're, you're gonna sit down and read them some letters.

Issac Waters: That's not how like 85% of them are done today. There are still some people who do it that way, but, It's not the majority of it now, and

Graham Doerge: there are some circumstances where maybe that's your only option. It's your only option, right?

Graham Doerge: Good afternoon. My name is Graham Durge, and I'm the founder and c e o of New Waters Recovery in Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome to our weekly podcast, finding New Waters. I'm joined today by [00:01:00] our Director of Admissions and Outreach Bee Reeves and Isaac Waters, who's the founder of Recovery Frameworks.

Graham Doerge: Recovery Frameworks offers non-clinical support services to supplement the teams of individuals with substance use disorder and eating disorders. Isaac Waters is a certified peer specialist, a life coach and certified Arise interventionist. He works extensively with individuals and families who are struggling with navigating early recovery from addictions mental health.

Graham Doerge: Mental health barriers and eating disorders. In the past, he's dealt with his own struggles with substance use disorders, mental health challenges, and family systems. In long-term recovery. Isaac now dedicates his life to working with individuals in recovery. It has his passion to help families heal, to watch individuals launch into a new phase of life and help those he works with find purpose.

Graham Doerge: Our goal in creating Finding New Waters is to provide a resource for families to help navigate the complexities of supporting a loved one while struggling with substance use or mental health issues. When we find ourselves in crisis due to one of these issues, most people have no idea where to turn. We [00:02:00] hope to shed some light under what is often the darkest hour for many families.

Graham Doerge: Isaac, thank you for joining us today. Happy to be here. Thank you guys. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Of course. And, um, this has been kind of long overdue and happy to finally have you up here. And, um, so Isaac is actually joining us today from Atlanta, uh, flew up last night. So we're very grateful for him, you know, traveling all this way in person.

Graham Doerge: Um, and you know, I, I was doing a little bit of research leading up to this and um, you know, one of the things that kind of I came across early on was that you were a guy that got sober very young, right? Yes. How old were you when you got sober? I was 19 when I got

Issac Waters: sober.

Graham Doerge: Absolutely incredible. Yeah.

Graham Doerge: Teenager. Teenager. And you know, for me, you know, I was 26 when I finally ended up getting sober, but um, I definitely could have gotten sober a lot younger. You know, for me it was, drinking was really. It was never a social thing, it was always an issue. I was drinking tequila by myself at 14 years old in my bedroom while I was supposed to be doing homework, which is not a, a normal, you know, behavior [00:03:00] pattern by any means.

Graham Doerge: And, um, you know, so, you know, what was interesting was that my family was very much in the dark. And you know, I grew up in one of those families where, you know, you don't talk about those uncomfortable things, right? You kind of, you sweep everything under the rug. And I always find it so interesting when people get sober that young and are able to sustain long-term super.

Graham Doerge: Variety for, for that long in that period of time. And um, so tell us a little bit about what, what that was like and, and kind of some of your experiences getting sober that

Issac Waters: young. Yeah, definitely. I think it was, uh, I, I come from a family that, like alcoholism has ran rampant through like I'm, uh, I think fifth generation at this point.

Issac Waters: Mm-hmm. And so it was no surprise. Like my, my mom, I can remember when I was 12 years old being like, Hey, you might have a problem with this one day. And like, that was the last time we talked

Graham Doerge: about it. Are, is your family in

Issac Waters: recovery? So my father is, well, there you go. Yeah. So I, I think that I briefly mentioned it, we were talking about another treatment center before the podcast and I was like, yeah, my dad went there a few times.

Issac Waters: And so that was, uh, that was like my childhood and I grew up that way. And it was kind of, I can remember like dare coming to schools and stuff like that. And I was always the first one to sign my name [00:04:00] cuz I like, knew like what drugs and alcohol did to people. And like my dad was very successful. Mm-hmm.

Issac Waters: Like, it was not like one of those stories. And so I had. You know, some of that stigma was already broken down to me. I knew it could happen to anybody. And, uh, I always told myself it wasn't gonna happen to me and I was a late bloomer in my friend group and like, it was the first thing, I was the first one to fall down too.

Issac Waters: So, um, I think that like from the moment I started using, I. Like drugs and alcohol. I knew that it was gonna be a problem. Like there was no doubt. Um, I knew that I liked it more than my friends and it took me quickly. Like I think that I took my first drink at 16 and I was in a treatment center at 17, so.

Issac Waters: Wow. Like very fast, right? Very fast. Yeah.

Graham Doerge: And mom and dad probably picked up on it very fast too. Right? My dad

Issac Waters: was still drinking. Oh, so he was still drinking? Yeah, he was my little hideout. So I would go out there when I'd get in trouble with mom and like dad, like was none the wiser on to what was going on.

Issac Waters: And. Um, I got in a lot of trouble very quickly as well, and so I think that like when that. Like Sharad fell down. My parents were very attentive. Mm-hmm. Um, and I went through this period where I [00:05:00] would go to treatment and my dad would be drinking. I'd come back from treatment and he would go to treatment.

Issac Waters: So we did this thing for like three years where like we'd each, you know, when the other one was in treatment, we would relapse, like whoever was at home. And then finally my dad and I went to treatment at the same time. Um, we went to the same treatment facility. No way. Yeah, same treatment facility. Wow. I got there like three months later than he did, and when I walked in the door they were like, oh, you're Dave's son.

Issac Waters: We've been expecting you. And I was like, you guys are awful. Um, so, uh, yeah, my dad and I have, my dad's got, uh, like three more months than I do sober, and we've both been able to maintain it. That's at this point crazy.

Graham Doerge: And mom had to deal with

Issac Waters: all that. Mom got the short end of the stick. For sure. For sure.

Issac Waters: She is an a saint. She's a saint, yes. A saint. Lovely woman. Lovely woman.

Graham Doerge: So, and so how many times were you in treatment?

Issac Waters: I went to treatment, uh, if you count like PHP and iops after residential, I went to six different facilities.

Graham Doerge: Gotcha. Um, but that was a lot of, it was kind of a continuation, a step down from residential.

Graham Doerge: Always

Issac Waters: a [00:06:00] step down. Yep. Um, and so I. Each time I went to treatment, I would come back and do an I O P when I got out. Got it.

Graham Doerge: Um, so what do you think was, was one of the kind of key factors in, in you being able to figure this out at such a

Issac Waters: young age? Yeah, so I went to, uh, Talbot Recovery, uh, when I was 19.

Issac Waters: And at the time they had a young adult program. Mm-hmm. And so, I had been thrown into like teen treatment centers where nobody wanted to be there. Yeah. Um, and then I had been thrown into the, like generic, you know, insurance mail treatment facility down in Florida and, you know, just across, like, I'm sitting next to a 75 year old woman that's there for opiates and like, I'm not, I have nothing to identify with her.

Issac Waters: Right. And then, When I sat in that room and there was 45 guys between 18 and 25 like that, were talking about recovery and like trying to do things and talking about going to college or talking about being in college and how they're gonna navigate this now. I think that it was the first time that I like had tried this recovery way of life and did not feel hopeless.

Issac Waters: So like there was something to achieve just beyond getting [00:07:00] sober that like my life had purpose again. Wow, that's

Graham Doerge: awesome. How did you

B Reeves: manage to not only stay sober but have fun? Going to the College of Charleston.

Issac Waters: Yeah. So I sober, I waited two years into my recovery to go to college. So like I really wanted to be prepared for that like scene, you know?

Issac Waters: Mm-hmm. Because College Charleston's a big party scene. Like everything that I ever knew about college, it was just like one big party. And, uh, beyond the academics, like I was kind of nervous or. About navigating that. And, uh, I had this core group of friends that were all sober and all young and all doing things like they all had this thing that they were passionate about.

Issac Waters: They had all gone to college or they were coming back and they were in med school, or they were in PT school, and I. So this group, uh, there was like seven or eight of us that we just like hung out all the time. Like when someone was outta school or someone was off work. There was, we lived in the house that everybody came by to, to like get together on a Friday night.

Issac Waters: And sometimes we would do a meeting, sometimes we would do a poker game. Sometimes we would go out to eat, like whatever it was I had, you know, I, I believe [00:08:00] that people sober up. You know, together, but they stay sober in packs. Like people find their core group and they stick together. You know, last year I was in five weddings of those guys.

Issac Waters: Wow. Um, and so like everyone has continued to stay sober and I, I think that it, it's like a testament to like what we did very early

Graham Doerge: on. That's amazing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's, and it's incredible too because, um, you know, unfortunately, Most colleges are not very open to having a lot of these supportive services on their campus.

Graham Doerge: Right. And it's like they don't wanna recognize the fact that they've got a substance use problem or a mental health problem on their, on their, uh, on their campus. And, um, they would rather just kick the kid out or, you know, just kind of, you know, not deal with the issue rather than somehow supporting or, or creating some resources on campus that can support their students that are.

Graham Doerge: In sobriety. Right. So, and I think College of Charleston, going back to that is a really interesting one because they're one of these, you know, programs that have been really open to it and have done an incredible job at creating a collegiate program, um, for recovery. And, uh, you were one of the founders of [00:09:00] their collegiate program.

Graham Doerge: So can you kind of talk about that process and getting that launched? Oh my, like, gosh,

Issac Waters: how much time do we have? Um, yeah. So. That we started that initiative in 2015, and it was, uh, several of my friends, uh, Steve Pulley, who was a great guy who had gone through the collegiate recovery program at Georgia Southern, which was one of the first they got, um, that grant from Texas Tech and, and have been up and running for a long time that, uh, he was coming back to.

Issac Waters: M U S C for, uh, PT school. That was one of the guys that I was just mentioning. Mm-hmm. And so he came down and, uh, another friend of mine, Sam Stafford, had gone to Augsburg College, which was the second collegiate recovery program. He had just moved to Charleston. My friend John Nicks was starting at C ffc.

Issac Waters: He had done a semester and I had been applying for, you know, two years to get into the College of Charleston and kept getting denied. And so, right. Uh, we had started going, but you're a servant. Yeah. Resilient, I think is, that's good. And so that's what I say. Um, we had started going to them and saying like, Hey, we'd like to start this, you know, initiative on campus.

Issac Waters: Like [00:10:00] we only had one actual student and just like three random guys were knocking on doors saying like, we'd like to help you guys start this. And, uh, we kept hearing that same thing, like, if we start a program like this, it's admitting that we have a drug problem on campus. Mm-hmm. And it's like, It's not admitting you have a drug problem, it is admitting that there are students in recovery on your campus, like, which is, uh, two.

Issac Waters: It's totally two very different things. Yep. And finally, I'm sitting in an office one day. We had like somehow finacle this meeting with the dean of students who, you know, the last time I was sitting in a dean's office, like I was being asked to leave my high school, you know, and so everyone had got around and we had like a federal judge in the room.

Issac Waters: We had like three tenured professors. Everyone's giving these like long, like, you know, Explanations of who they are and why they're here. And I was like, my name's Isaac Waters. Like I've applied to your school seven times and been denied. Like, I wanna help you guys. And uh, I got a call like, I think a week later that I had been accepted.

Issac Waters: Um, wow. And so we got started, we applied for a grant and received it. And, uh, me and John Nicks met with, you know, Dr. Jerry Cabot at the time was [00:11:00] the dean of students. We met with her once a week and just like started resource mapping. Um, wow. And seeing like who the players were who could support this, what, what could we do?

Issac Waters: And finally the school was like, we can't give you guys any money. Like we, we can't do it. And we were all like, we want you to hire a director. We want you to hire a director. We want our own physical space. Like we had a lot of, a ton of big asks for them. Mm-hmm. And uh, they were like, well, if you go raise, you know, a.

Issac Waters: Half a million dollars, we'll start this thing for you. Mm-hmm. And, uh, we were all like, hopeless, like, you know, little kids. And the first person that we talked to donated $118,000 on the spot. Wow. That's incredible. And so after that, you know, it just like snowballed, you know, she held a fundraiser at our house.

Issac Waters: We got, you know, uh, over 300,000. Dollars donated in like two months. Uh, and then we started the director search and uh, I think that you guys both know wood marching at this point. Mm-hmm. He's the director there. He has been since 2016. And you know, it started with two students and at this point it's graduated like 35 and there's 20 active students in the program today.

Issac Waters: Wow. [00:12:00] Wow. That's awesome. Yeah.

Graham Doerge: Very cool. Incredible. Very cool. Yeah, and I actually went. There, uh, a few months back and I visited with wood, uh, Marshant, and he is, um, you know, still just, you know, he's in there every day with these guys and they're grinding and, and if they have this, this little office space with, you know, tons of snacks and food and, you know, all the guys come in and just hang out in between class and do homework and, and it's just a real community within this community, you know?

Graham Doerge: Yeah. And it's just like, I, I just don't understand why we can't wrap our head around why we need these resources in these colleges. Right. I mean, you know, listen, we're dealing with the, one of the biggest epidemics that we've ever seen, and now coming off of the pandemic, I mean, it's, you know, people can't get into doctors, they can't get into providers.

Graham Doerge: They, you know, we're going downhill fast and um, and we just need to wake up. Mm-hmm. You know? Well, I love

B Reeves: the idea of the collegiate recovery. You know, instead of having to admit or, you know, air quotes, having to admit, we have a problem here. It's more like, How about we have now we have a solution. Right.

B Reeves: Totally. Here, you know, that's so cool. And it's interesting, the schools who, [00:13:00] um, have gotten gotten it, you know, Texas Tech and Augsburg mm-hmm. Didn't know about that. But then, um, Uh, Charlotte,

Graham Doerge: you from Alabama?

Issac Waters: Alabama. You guys here in North Carolina? Actually, the state, uh, requires it. So if, if you're a state run university here in north, in North Carolina, you have to have a is that's, uh, 2015.

Issac Waters: Wow. Yeah. So cool. You guys have done really cool

Graham Doerge: job here. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah.

B Reeves: Um, what do you tell, I mean, What's the demographic of you people, you, uh, you work with typically from in recovery

Issac Waters: frameworks? Yeah. Um, at recovery frameworks. We see this like bizarre end into the spectrum because I think obviously like, just due to my history, like we do a ton of college age individuals.

Issac Waters: Um, so we see this. Interesting. Like kind of spread, it's 13 to 20 and then it is 55 to 70. Hmm. Um, and so we are getting individuals that this might be their first like suaree into like recovery initiatives or treatment or complex kind of issues. [00:14:00] And then we see individuals who are kind of in their retired life and like have, you know, uh, started some habits that aren't necessarily supportive to their long-term health.

Issac Waters: Right. Basically two

B Reeves: demo, uh, parts of, you know, two demographics that don't work. Yeah,

Issac Waters: exactly. That about is about right. Life transitions, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Life transitions. Yeah, life transitions

Graham Doerge: and, and let's even, you know, back up a little bit more on that and say, you know, so you do sober companion jobs?

Graham Doerge: Yeah. You do. Um, you know, you work with clients or are struggling with eating disorders, mental health. Um, case management and interventions. Um, so can you just tell us a little bit about, like, for instance, so the audience knows what is a sober transport or, or a companion job? Yeah, definitely.

Issac Waters: I can, I can give the, the overview.

Issac Waters: Yeah, like I think when we started, I, I really thought that we were gonna be serving just this like 18 to 22 cause that's where I was when I got sober. So it was just gonna be, you know, kids kind of entering college or might have. Failed outta college and we were gonna start on a coaching side and our coaches meet with our, the people that we serve anywhere from like five to 20 hours a week.

Issac Waters: And that's, you know, kind of [00:15:00] across the spectrum. So any of our sober coaches, our eating disorder coaches are our mental health coaches. What we do is we've got a 12 week curriculum that we're getting them started with, and that's, uh, really we have a very extensive matchmaking process. So anyone who's onboarding with us, As a client goes through a little mock mini assessment and we're figuring out different things like hobby skills, interests, strengths, uh, we're looking at their past attempts at recovery, like what they're doing today, what does their lifestyle look like.

Issac Waters: They're getting a lifestyle assessment in that as well. And then we're matching them up with a coach that's gonna be the best fit for them. Mm-hmm. And so you're getting someone who is tailor-made to you that has the same hobbies, has the same interest, has the same like path to recovery that you're go like.

Issac Waters: Striving for. So if you want to do 12 step, you're getting matched up with someone who does 12 step. If you want to do, uh, you know, faith-based recovery, you're getting matched with a faith-based recovery coach. And so, and you've got coaches all over the country? All over the country. Yeah. So our biggest chapters are in Atlanta, Raleigh, Charleston, Nashville, New York City, Miami, and la.[00:16:00]

Issac Waters: Um, that's where we have the, the widest roster of coaches. And so all of our. You know, that kind of bleeds into our companion side as well. Companions and coaches have the exact same job. The only difference is time. So companions live with their clients. So that's 24 7. Um, I'll say on average our coaching clients, you know, those people meeting part-time stay with us for about 13 months.

Issac Waters: So we get them for a very long period of time. Yeah, that's huge. Yeah. Uh, a, a really unique way to do that and our. Companion or live-in, on average I think is 75 days. So someone who's leaving treatment, leaving a detox facility, that might not have the capabilities to go to a long-term treatment center like that mm-hmm.

Issac Waters: They're going to, you know, use a companion to kind of come into the house, set them up, make sure that they're making it to all their appointments, you know, that the, if they have some complex kind of psychiatric or psychological needs, that they are bringing that into the house as well. And we can facilitate all that through our case management side.

Issac Waters: Mm-hmm. So,

Graham Doerge: And so who's a good candidate for the companion job?

Issac Waters: Um, yeah, [00:17:00] I think it's, it's across the spectrum. You know, what we talk about sometimes is, is the younger side, like someone who is in college that might have had, you know, taken the summer off to go get well. Mm-hmm. And they've gone to treatment over the summer, or they might have had a medical withdrawal in the past semester and they're determined just like I was to return to the college Charleston or to go to the College of Charleston.

Issac Waters: They're determined to go back to that university even though their parents are like, whoa, you, you kind of hit. A lot of roadblocks when you were going to school there. Like, why don't we think about somewhere new? And, and talking to a young person like that, like my big thing is like, let's use their strengths.

Issac Waters: They wanna go back to college. Like, let's just make sure that they have the support structure around them to do so. And so that's a great candidate. Um, another great candidate is that kind of executive. Mm-hmm. So, uh, someone who. Necessarily does need this accountability. Um, someone who might be traveling a lot for work or someone who kind of might not have accountability in the household.

Issac Waters: Uh, someone who does need that kind of supportive structure, that coach to sit with them and say like, we can't get through today. This is what we're gonna do. This is how we're building your schedule. This is what we're gonna do tonight to make sure that we're following through on this recovery [00:18:00] side of things.

Issac Waters: And I'm gonna make sure that you're safe in your own house. Right? Yeah. What

Graham Doerge: about for,

B Reeves: for people who are, say, I've got a wedding this weekend. I've been at a treatment for, you know, two weeks. I'm doing all right, but I'm going to this wedding. You know, my best friend from college is getting married. Yeah.

B Reeves: Would do you do companion just for that the weekend or hundred be a

Issac Waters: Okay. Yeah, a hundred percent. So we do short-term stays and long-term stays. Okay. So, um, most of the time it's, it's just like that for the short term side of things. Like, I've got a family vacation or I've got, you know, this thing that I can't miss.

Issac Waters: I'm a little nervous about it. Mm-hmm. Um, A big one for us is actually Christmas. Christmas Day is people who are like going around their family for the first time after treatment and they're a little bit nervous about it and they just want that backup and support. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wonderful. And how do

B Reeves: you find the, uh, people who are the companions, who are the coaches in especially where, in cities where you're not necessarily like in that?

B Reeves: Area or that familiar with

Issac Waters: it. Recruitment's a huge part of what I do. Um, and finding those profiles is something that is pretty unique. Cuz you think about like someone who's essentially gonna be living with someone, like they gotta be likable, um mm-hmm. They've gotta be really good [00:19:00] at their job because this is important, uh, a line of work and they've got to have like, Intuition and determination.

Issac Waters: Mm-hmm. And so a lot of those things are things that I can't train. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I travel all the time. I meet people wherever I can. I meet people in recovery initiatives, I go to meetings all over different types of meetings, styles of meetings. I get introduced by other people that are interested in this line of work.

Issac Waters: We've got, you know, a five-step interview process with references and then personally app. Personality tests and assessments that we do with them. And so it just gets further and further and along and, and I find that that weeds out to people who probably won't be a good fit for something like this. Cuz if you can't make it through this five stage interview process, you're probably not gonna make it through 90 days living with someone else.

Issac Waters: A hundred percent. And so, uh, I think that that's a big thing. Another thing, On the companionship line that we do really well is that we check in on them. I think that a lot of agencies are like, here's your job, here's your location. Mm-hmm. You know, meet them there. Um, I call them three times a day. I'm like, what are you doing?

Issac Waters: How are you doing? Mm-hmm. Like, what's going on? Um, so they're never on an island out [00:20:00] there. It's a big thing. They're always supported from the home office.

B Reeves: What are their, what are like a couple things they have absolutely have to have Mean, do they have to be. It's sober, been,

Issac Waters: uh, long-term recovery is, uh, number one.

Issac Waters: So we do a lot of work on the mental health side as well. And so anytime we are working with a complex mental health case, they have to have some type of clinical licensure, uh, whether that's K d A, whether that's msw, whether that's, you know, uh, lp. C, LP, c a. Um, so they have to have that side of it for the mental health, uh, for the, uh, Like substance use, long-term recovery.

Issac Waters: So have to have more than five years to work as a sober coach with us. Uh, which is a, a, a good thing for us because I think that that five year mark is, is pretty, uh, you just look at statistics at long-term recovery and like after five years, your odds of like lifelong recovery go up by 85%, right? So, Yep.

Issac Waters: Exponentially.

Graham Doerge: Yeah, exponentially. Yeah. I mean, man, the companion job is, is uh, a wild one. Yeah, it really is. It is. You're going and living with Yeah. With folks for, you know, a month, two months at a time. Nine months. Yeah, [00:21:00] nine months. I mean, you've done a nine month

Issac Waters: job. We've, we've had them, and, and it's have something you personally,

Graham Doerge: what's the longest

Issac Waters: you've done?

Issac Waters: No, longest one that I've done is, uh, three months. Three months. Three months. And that's with leave. All of our. Contracts we like write into it that like, our companions work three weeks on, four days off, so. Got it. Um, and we like ship them all over the country wherever they want to go. Like, what resort do you wanna be at for four days?

Issac Waters: Like right back. Yeah. Go check in on yourself. Yeah. Love it.

Graham Doerge: So what about, um, so you are an arise interventionist as well. Mm-hmm. Right. So what would you say, would you say that you're doing your, your company and, and business now is comprised, you know, you're doing more interventions, more companion

Issac Waters: jobs, or I would say that, uh, mostly companion.

Issac Waters: Jobs, uh, and then coaching, and then interventions, um, interventions really, uh, we, our entire office got trained in that so that we could kind of, I guess more so use that out of need. Um, and it's a great way for us to cooperate and collaborate with treatment centers too. Yep. [00:22:00] Um, so I think that that was, uh, really the purpose of that was so that we could kind of be more of a tool in the landscape of these nonclinical services.

Issac Waters: Yeah.

B Reeves: Yeah. What would you say we. Here at New Waters. And then in our personal lives, we all talk to people who, the families are calling me as an employee here. Yeah. And me as somebody in recovery. And it's true for everybody here. And then they're just not willing to really go that next step and go the intervention route.

B Reeves: They think they can just sort of cobble together something. And what would you say to families who are sort of like, they know about 'em and they probably from what they've seen on tv, Oh, and yeah, exactly. So what do you, what do you say to them about like, you know, the value you add?

Issac Waters: Yeah. Don't trust what you see on tv.

Issac Waters: I think that that's what we know these days, right? Yeah. Um, so, uh, I think a big thing. About like interventions today is that historically and what you saw on TV was this like surprise factor. Mm-hmm. Like, let's trick your loved one mm-hmm. Into coming to a place where they're not gonna be comfortable, where they're gonna have their guard up and where they're, you're gonna sit down and read [00:23:00] them some letters.

Issac Waters: That's not how like 85% of them are done today. There are still some people who do it that way. Mm-hmm. But, It's not the majority of it now, and there are some

Graham Doerge: circumstances where maybe that's your only option. It's your only option, right? Yeah. You know, and you do have to pull that card. It's, you know, probably not the best, the first choice.

Graham Doerge: Right. It's not the first choice, you know? And you're an Arise intervention inter interventionist. Mm-hmm. So you can talk a little bit about what that means

Issac Waters: too. Yeah. So the Arise model is invitational intervention, and so that's looking more so at the family system as a whole, instead of the individual as the problem.

Issac Waters: Which I think as a person in recovery, like I can really identify with that because. I, I mean, my family held an intervention on me. I'm in a like therapy session with, you know, my father who is intoxicated, like, and I'm thinking that this is family intervention. And I'm like so excited to walk into this meeting to tell him like how bad he is and all this kind of stuff.

Issac Waters: And 10 minutes into it, he's like, you're missing the elephant in the room. And I'm like, well, what's that dad? And like, knock, knock, knock. And like my mom, my grandparents, like my cousins like all walk into this therapist's office and I was like, you tricked me. Like, you know. Yeah. [00:24:00] And I didn't listen to a thing that they said.

Issac Waters: Um, and so I think anytime someone can make a, a deliberate choice in themselves to say like, I want to go to treatment, that your odds of getting them to treatment a increase. Like you're not gonna have this person who's just like saying yes so that they can then run away as soon as you let 'em out of the room.

Issac Waters: But B, you're setting them up. For success in the long run. And then as an, as an interventionist like working to make sure that the family doesn't stop working when the loved one gets into treatment. That's the biggest value add because holding these families accountable and like putting them in their own like, Style of family treatment and, and getting them plugged in with resources as well.

Issac Waters: Like we know that when families are working on themselves and working through the systems issues that they have as a, you know, this is a family disease that as they work on themselves, the odds of successful recovery for the one that they've been worried about for so long increase as well, so, mm-hmm.

Graham Doerge: Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. Um, and so tell me a little bit, like, kind of just fast tracking into your life now. Yeah. You know, that's your [00:25:00] business and, and obviously how you, you know, and, and listen to, I, I can relate to this as well and I'm sure that you got into this field because, you know, like myself, it was after getting sober and going through treatment, it was like, gosh, if I can do what.

Graham Doerge: You know, those guys did for me and make a career out of it. What an amazing way to make a living. Right? And helping people and, and, you know, ultimately saving, helping people save their lives. So what are you doing now for your recovery and, and your life, and what is life like now

Issac Waters: for you? Oh, uh, it's a dream.

Issac Waters: Um, I think that, like, you know, I was, I was lucky enough to celebrate 10 years, uh, earlier this year, and like never thought A, that that was possible. And like, b I think that. My recovery has shifted so much since the pandemic that like, I really didn't know what it was gonna look like these days. And so when you took meetings away from me, which was like a huge aspect of that social recovery that I, I like, grew to love and what I found out like need.

Issac Waters: Mm-hmm. Um, I had to create new ways to do that when, when we all went on lockdown. And so [00:26:00] I find that today, like the biggest thing that I do to support my, like recovery is, is a wellness. Like that was something that I did not incorporate in my first five years. And so I think that. Like, just in and of itself, like I make sure that I'm following a structure, I'm following a routine.

Issac Waters: I like watch what I like, you know, ingest and, and I try to, to stay on the healthier side of things and be it staying in touch with the people that I'm close with. Mm-hmm. Like, it's the connections that I have, not only in recovery, um, but in family and friends and, and all of that. And then it's making sure that I'm still like suiting up and showing up to the place, uh, into my 12 step meetings and like raising my hand when people say that they need help and like saying like, this is what I'm here to do.

Issac Waters: Yeah. So this is how I did it. If you'd like to do it this way, we can. Yeah. You

Graham Doerge: gotta give it away. Yeah. Gotta give it away. Yeah, and I think that it's that, uh, and what I kind of heard there was like balance, right? And finding a balance. And, um, that's, that's been a constant struggle for me in recovery. And, you know, obviously, you know, starting a business is tough.

Graham Doerge: You know, we're, we've been open for six months here, uh, a little over [00:27:00] six months now here. New, new waters and. You know, finding that balance can be really, really tough sometimes. And um, you know, so what are those, some of those tools that you have to really kind of get yourself back on track when you kind of find yourself going off?

Graham Doerge: Uh, I

Issac Waters: would say that my biggest tool is my calendar today. Like, that's my biggest thing because, uh, I put things on my calendar that I want to do, things that I have to do, and things that like I probably need to do, you know, like my. My therapy appointments go on there. And I know that I can't book anything around that.

Issac Waters: Like the gym goes on there, I know that I can't book anything around that. And then, uh, inevitably like it is just like holding myself accountable to the own own goals that I'm setting for myself. Mm-hmm. And so sometimes that goal is, is you know, like make it to four meetings this week cuz you were only able to make it to one last week.

Issac Waters: Sometimes it's, you know, uh, we're gonna spend this much time with like family, we're gonna spend this much time with friends. Like, and uh, I think that at the end of my week I always like kind of. I have two calendars. I have one for what I set out to do and one for what I actually did. So like I measure like the differences and uh, I think the balance like [00:28:00] comes out in that because when I find that, you know, oh eight, I took work calls from six to ten one night when I was like supposed to like go to the gym and go have dinner with my friends.

Issac Waters: Like there's something there. Um, And inevitably work wins. I'll tell you that. Like work, work always ends as a business owner. Like it's, it's impossible for it not to. And the phones

Graham Doerge: ringing seven days a week. Seven days a week, right? Yeah. And 24 hours a day. 24 hours a day. Yeah. Nice. So, and we pick it up and people are always amazed when, you know, or, or like on Saturday night when we're on a phone call with the family at nine 30, they're like, I'm so sorry.

Graham Doerge: I'm so sorry to keep you. And it's like, this is like literally, I'm doing this on a daily basis. So, yeah. And

Issac Waters: what's so crazy is that it's their worst day. Mm-hmm. And it's like, It's our every day, you know, like, this is what we do. It

B Reeves: makes me happy to be able to help someone, even if even it is, is my job.

B Reeves: But I still love doing it. Yeah, definitely. But I love what you said about the counter. I just recently, um, realized I just wasn't, you know, even the nights I had kind of scheduled to go to meetings the way our, you know, schedules work, that I just wasn't going to as many. So I, every Tuesday. Like, I'm still gonna go to some at night, but I have one that [00:29:00] I just, and I have, since I put it on my calendar, I've been every time.

B Reeves: Yeah. And I just have to do it right. You know? And if it's there, then I will respect the calendar. And you know, that first week I remember thinking like, well this guy's coming in, but somebody else could handle it. So I just went, if nothing else, to set the precedent that I'm gonna do this for myself.

B Reeves: Yeah. Um, and then I just listened to a podcast the other day. I ran into a guy I know from the 12 step rooms at the gym who told me I should listen to this podcast about burnout. And it was, and it was a similar conversation about, um, you know, the, the calendar being a tool. Mm-hmm. And it's interesting to hear that.

B Reeves: And, you know, we're talking about recovery and spirituality and it's like my outlet calendar is my most valuable tool, but I, I hear

Issac Waters: you. We talk about like this pandemic of substance use and like that's why, you know, of course we're seeing the numbers increase of treatment admissions, but I think that there's a pandemic inside of the providers that, and that's burnout, like Yeah, a hundred percent.

Issac Waters: I mean, how many times, like the turnover of like in all of that stuff, it's exactly right. Um, so

Graham Doerge: it's hard band and, and, um, you know, medical providers with [00:30:00] clinicians especially. Um, and, um, you know, we actually next month are doing an episode on, on this podcast. Perfect. Perfect burnout. Perfect. So, Everybody tune in next month from burnout episode, Dr.

Graham Doerge: Burn.

Issac Waters: Nice little, nice burnout, Dr. Nice plug. Nice plug.

Graham Doerge: Like that. So, um, no, so I, I totally agree with that and that's like a constant battle for me, man. And for me it's so much of it. And you kind of, you added or touched on it with like the eating, the working out, like the holistic stuff that we're doing, whether it's like meditation or journaling.

Graham Doerge: Sleep. Sleep. Pl is the biggest, right? What'd you say? Yes. Cold plunge. Cold plunge. Yeah. Yes. Cold, hot, cold therapy. Yeah. Um, you know, biohacking, all that stuff is, is great. And, um, and when I'm not doing it, you know, I just, there's a, a total difference mm-hmm. In, in my day, you know? Right. So, um, I, you know, wish or I try to do that every day in my, in my world, but it's just, it's tough sometimes, you know?

Graham Doerge: Mm-hmm. Yeah, of course.

B Reeves: What's your meditation practice?

Issac Waters: Uh, my meditation practice is five [00:31:00] minutes every morning with a cup of coffee. So I sit there. I do. Quiet for five minutes, and then I read, I've got the 24 hour book that I read every day. Yeah. And you've

Graham Doerge: been reading that for 10 years? 10 years. I still have my 24 hours a day.

Graham Doerge: Fuck that I got in treatment. Yeah.

Issac Waters: Yeah. My father mailed me one. Yeah. Um, my grandfather mailed me one. The second time I went to treatment. My grandfather was in recovery as well. Um, that's amazing. Yeah. So we would all three go to meetings together, which is pretty special. That's

B Reeves: so cool. Yeah. I've never seen that.

B Reeves: I've seen a few father, son, father, uh, mother daughter thing, but never a Yeah. There were three

Issac Waters: generations. Three generations. Yeah.

Graham Doerge: That's really cool. It would be interesting to do your genogram too. Oh, I've done it. And see kind of like the patterns as they, as they break down. And then, and then your future generations now after.

Graham Doerge: You guys have all hopefully broken the cycle to some extent.

Issac Waters: Yeah, I think, uh, I did one a couple years ago and was looking at my family and every, uh, like waters in the family tree was actively in recovery. Wow. And so really? Yeah, male. Like only the men, like not on the women's side. Like, it's just like the men and, uh, I [00:32:00] had a cousin who was in recovery, uncle, who's in recovery.

Issac Waters: Like, um, you know, I got, my baby cousin called me like three months ago and was like, I think I might have a problem. And I was like, yeah, bud, look at your family tree. You know, like,

Graham Doerge: yeah. Yeah. We knew it. It was coming. We knew it when you were sex. Yeah. So and so Well, Isaac, thank you so much for joining us today.

Graham Doerge: It's, uh, been such a pleasure getting to know you a little bit better, hearing about your work. Obviously you're doing incredible work and, um, you know, looking. Forward to collaborating with you on, on Clients down the road. Um, but as well, um, we will have all of Isaac's information on our website, finding new waters.com as well.

Graham Doerge: This will be broadcast on all, uh, podcast platforms. So, uh, please come and check us out, uh, for next next week's episode as well. And thank you for being here. Happy to be here. Thanks. Thank you guys. Thank you for calling. Thanks guys. Thank you, Graham.[00:33:00]

In this stimulating episode of Finding New Waters, we have the pleasure of hosting Issac Waters, the inspirational founder of Recovery Frameworks. With an extensive background as a Certified Peer Specialist, Life Coach, and Certified Arise Interventionist, Isaac specializes in aiding those who are in the early stages of recovery from addictions, mental health challenges, and eating disorders. Drawing from his own experiences with Substance Use Disorder and Mental Health Challenges, Isaac has turned his past struggles into a source of strength, dedicating his life to serving those on their own recovery journey. We initiate the conversation by examining common misconceptions surrounding interventions. Isaac helps to dispel the dated notion of interventions as surprise confrontations, pointing out that today's methods prioritize establishing a safe, supportive environment for the individual grappling with addiction. Our host, Graham Doerge, founder and CEO of New Waters Recovery, guides Isaac in narrating his personal experiences with substance abuse, beginning with his teenage years. Isaac's candid narrative sheds light on the unique hurdles he faced during his youthful recovery. He pays tribute to his family's significant role in his journey, especially considering his father's parallel struggles with addiction. Isaac brings a captivating concept to our attention - 'sobering up in packs'. He recounts how his close-knit circle of friends had a significant influence on his journey to sobriety and continues to be a vital source of support. This mutual camaraderie and shared experiences have been instrumental in maintaining his recovery and fostering a sense of purpose. We also explore Isaac's noteworthy contribution to establishing a Collegiate Recovery Program at the College of Charleston. Isaac gives a detailed account of the hurdles he encountered, stemming largely from a societal stigma that acknowledging such a program implies a campus-wide drug issue. This episode offers invaluable insights into the nuances of interventions, recovery, and the indispensable role of peer support in long-term sobriety. Isaac's story underscores that recovery goes beyond overcoming addiction; it involves discovering a sense of purpose and embracing life anew. Outside of his professional endeavors, Isaac is an ardent fitness enthusiast and foodie, enjoying trying out new restaurants and grilling. A golfer at heart, he has also recently developed a passion for pickleball. He also enjoys spending his leisure time catching up on TV shows. Join us for this enlightening and motivational conversation with Isaac Waters.

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