Question 1

Podcast Transcript

Accepted Answer

Jared Murray.audioweb
Jared Murray: [00:00:00] And those things are, are crucial. And for me, like getting sober when I was 20, like recovery had to become a lifestyle for me, right? Like it, it had to be something that I really could truly see myself living out each day and, and for the young men coming into our program, like recovery happens throughout the inner therapeutic groups and, you know, recovery happens in individual therapy growth happens in those, in those ways, like those things are crucial to the therapeutic process.
Jared Murray: But where I see guys engage the most is when I see 20 of them running around on the softball field, smiling and laughing, having fun. You know what I mean? I couldn't remember the last time I laughed or smiled or had fun, you know what I mean? And when I was in treatment coming alive again in that way and experiencing stuff like that helped me see that hey, this is something, man, that I might not hate.[00:01:00] 
Jared Murray: Good afternoon. My name is Graham Durgie, and I'm the founder and CEO of New Waters Recovery in Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome to our weekly podcast, Finding New Waters. Our goal in creating Finding New Waters is to provide a resource for families to help navigate the complexities of supporting a loved one struggling with substance use or mental health.
Jared Murray: When we find ourselves in crisis due to one of these issues, most people have no idea where to turn. We hope to shed some light onto what is often the darkest hour for many families. 
Ryan Jarrell: Hello, everyone. Welcome to finding new waters. I'm Ryan Gerald, continuing care coordinator. I'm sitting here with Justin McClendon, our executive director, and we have the privilege.
Ryan Jarrell: Of talking to Jared Murray works in admissions and outreach at Momentum Recovery. Jared, welcome to Finding New Waters. 
Jared Murray: Absolutely, guys. Happy to be here. Excited to be on here with y'all. 
Ryan Jarrell: Yeah, this is this is really nice. Jared, you know, I know that we work together We, we work [00:02:00] together regularly and it's a really, it's a really wonderful experience to be able to to, to work with young men and, and get them kind of engaged on a path that I know personally, I think Justin knows personally and you do as well.
Ryan Jarrell: I was really hoping that you would open up and, and talk a little bit about you know, how you found yourself in the industry and, and maybe how you found yourself in recovery yourself. 
Jared Murray: Yeah, totally. Yeah, I guess a little bit of background on me. I grew up in Huntsville, Alabama, so born and raised in Alabama.
Jared Murray: I was hoping we would get on this podcast and just talk about Alabama football for an hour, but that's okay. We can talk about recovery instead. But yeah, man, I guess like a little bit about my story. A little bit of backstory, I guess, for me I grew up in a good family, had an older brother who I looked up to, had loving parents who poured unconditional love into me.
Jared Murray: I had everything you could have ever asked for growing up. Of course, my family system had its own stuff in it every... Family system does. But somewhere [00:03:00] along the way through my experience, experiences growing up, like I did develop a negative belief system about myself, you know, and I was an athlete.
Jared Murray: I thrived in sports. I did well academically. I did well in social groups. I could put on whatever mask I needed to put on to fit in with whatever group I needed to fit in with. However, I never fully felt comfortable with myself, you know? I never felt fully okay with me. There was always that kind of emptiness and that internal void.
Jared Murray: That fear of not being good enough, fear of being alone. Fear of failure, fear of success, like I always struggled with that level of self centered fear that we talk about in recovery a lot. And as far back as I can remember, I've always kind of felt that way. And so I recall like the first time I ever tried any substances, I was probably about 13 years old.
Jared Murray: And it was like all that fear went away, all that insecurity went away. I felt like I could be who I wanted to be, I felt like I could be who others wanted me to be. I, I'm someone who really likes connection from others. I like acceptance [00:04:00] from others. I like approval from others. And, and I seem to be able to find all those things through the lifestyle of using drugs, you know, and I found that out early on when I was really young.
Jared Murray: And so my addiction really started at a young age. When I went into high school was when it really kind of started to really progress. That was when I was introduced to opiates and benzos and cocaine and certain substances, substances like that, that I really struggled with. And so, I got in a lot of legal trouble in high school got arrested quite a bit, skipping school, getting high before school, during school, after school, you know, my, my disease continued to progress throughout the later years of high school for me, and then I left Huntsville and went down to the University of Alabama, which was a phenomenal idea for the substance abuse problem I had coming out of high school.
Jared Murray: You know, my parents, I talked to him about that decision and they're like, man, we were so ready for you to get out of our house. I think some denial on their part is that they did think that I would just somehow go to college and grow up and these things would just [00:05:00] Figure themselves out. But they desperately wanted me out of their house because of the unmanageability that was going on as a result of my addiction when I was living at home.
Jared Murray: So I went down to Alabama basically got heavily addicted to Oxycontin down there and cocaine. Those were my two kind of constants. Was an IV drug user eventually and got into some pretty big legal trouble when I was 20 which is what drove me to go into treatment. So I got arrested with you know, about five.
Jared Murray: Five felonies and two counts of two misdemeanors and one big arrest. I was living in the fraternity house at the time. And that's kind of what pulled me out of the University of Alabama and put me in treatment. And since then, I've been, I've been completely clean and sober since then. So January 29th, 2011 was, was when I went to treatment and that's my sobriety date.
Jared Murray: So I went into this thing when I was 20 and... Man, it's been an incredible journey for almost the last 13 years. 
Ryan Jarrell: Jared, I think it's really interesting that you kind of got [00:06:00] springboarded. A lot of people think, you know, in a recovery setting that the only way we can enter it is when we have a full internal collapse.
Ryan Jarrell: We've totally surrendered to the process. We have to be fully accepting of ourselves as alcoholics. And my guess is getting busted with the heroin at the frat house. That's maybe not mentally where you were at. Did you, was that your motivation initially? And did your motivation change over time during your treatment experience?
Jared Murray: Yeah, I think that's a great question, Ryan. I think that ties into a lot of the things that even when I get to work with young men with you on that we try to talk to families about and guys about is that, hey you know, it's okay that you're not fully surrendered to the idea that you're an addict or an alcoholic.
Jared Murray: It's okay that you don't... You know, fully see the true severe consequences of your substance use, right? What we try to do in this field as interventionists, treatment centers, professionals that do this work is try to help raise the bottom for young men and try to coach their families on helping them understand that you know, the, we put the shovel down when we stop digging, right?
Jared Murray: It's, I didn't [00:07:00] have the rational ability to make a decision to go to treatment on my own. Like I had to be intervened on from that standpoint and I remember when I was getting arrested that day, like I was telling those police officers, I don't get it. I've been clean for two weeks, you know, and what's so crazy about that?
Jared Murray: It's I believed that being delusional. I was at that point in time in my addiction and. Man, if it was left up to me, there was no way I was going to make a decision to go to treatment. Mm hmm. Like deep down, I wanted something different, right? And, and I was miserable and I was empty and, and all of those things, but the light bulb of recovery and surrender did not happen for me then, right?
Jared Murray: Like it happened for me over the course of a long period of time. 
Ryan Jarrell: 100%. I mean, Justin, I know you have a lot of experience as a therapist. Yeah. Working with young people. Yeah. Yeah. How do people have these kind of motivation shifts and changes? 
Justin Mclendon: You know, I think there's, I mean, I mean, I think we all see it, right?
Justin Mclendon: And we see it at so many different levels. Everybody's so [00:08:00] different. And I think, you know, sometimes we get lucky and we have people, whether they're young, whether they're middle aged, older we have some people that, you know, maybe they did, they did have that light switch kind of go off for them, right?
Justin Mclendon: You know, they had a horrible experience or they just happen to wake up one day and they were just like, hey, I'm tired of living this way. And they, and then maybe they're stepping into that process with that motivation. But I think more times than not, people simply don't, right? They're just not at that place yet, or they're not, you know, maybe they have a little bit of motivation or they know that they need to make a change, but they're still not at the place to where we hope that they're going to get.
Justin Mclendon: And, and as you were saying, Jared, I think it's, it's not it's not a prerequisite, right? I mean, it's not it's not required that somebody is, you know, fully on board or that they're fully accepting of, of where they're at in their life and their, and their substance use in order to take their first step towards change.
Justin Mclendon: You know what I mean? And I think, you know, Jared, I know you do too. We have these conversations on what feels like a daily basis is. You know, we're not asking you to have that, right? We're just asking you to take one [00:09:00] step forward right now, and, and with the hopes that along that path you are going to come to believe some different things about yourself and what life needs to look like for you, you know?
Ryan Jarrell: One hundred percent. I think purity of motivation, sometimes it's very difficult for parents or spouses of people that are involved in this, right? They don't just want the person to make the right action. But they wanted to make it for the right reason. And I think a lot of times the work is letting them know Hey, that may not be the case.
Ryan Jarrell: That's just maybe not a realistic expectation. So one of my best friends, a real icon of mine in recovery, you know, he, he got sober and chose a sponsor because the sponsor had a nice watch. You know, he wasn't interested in What he had to say about God, you know, or how thorough kind of a fifth step was like He saw that guy had a nice watch and sobriety and he said I that's what I want Worked with that guy for a year, you know, right?
Ryan Jarrell: Or yeah, and and especially when you're talking about young men, I mean sometimes it is It is listen, I see this guy and he's, he's dating a nice girl and he's going back to school and he's in sobriety and I never thought that would be me, you know? [00:10:00] And Jared, I think that's something that I see you when you're connecting with guys at Momentum.
Ryan Jarrell: I think that's something that I see you trying to, trying to engage with them with. Could you talk a little bit about Momentum, the demographic that you guys serve and what you guys specialize 
Jared Murray: in? Yeah, I can, man. So yeah, I'm a minimum recovery. First off, we're based in Wilmington, North Carolina, and we work with 18 to 35 year old young adult men, primarily 18 to 30 year olds.
Jared Murray: We occasionally get, you know, guys who are 30 to 35, depending on their situation and specializing in that age group, right? Kind of like what we're talking about. I think some of the biggest things that are so needed for the young men that we work with is they all come into our program. With this negative belief system about themselves and the world around them, you know, and and what we're trying to create for them is help them develop a positive belief system about themselves and the world around them.
Jared Murray: And how we accomplish that is through helping them achieve and maintain healthy relationships and accomplish healthy relationships and establish connection. With themselves and [00:11:00] with others, you know, and really kind of how we go about helping them accomplish those goals is through the therapeutic approaches that we do, you know, and so when guys come to us, basically, we have.
Jared Murray: A full continuum of care, right? That spread out over the course of, you know, 9 to 12 months. If someone was to do our full continuum when guys usually first initially get to us, they're going to start in our first phase, right? Like, when they're coming out of new waters, coming out of detox, they land in phase 1, and when they're in that phase of the program, you know, they're in a 90 day, pretty intensive, structured, regimented program in that phase where their sole focus is to really kind of dig deep and do the internal work that it takes.
Jared Murray: To build an appropriate foundation in their recovery without a ton of distractions that are going to keep them from doing that work. And, you know, in working with this age group, 18 and 30 year olds, I know for me, getting sober at 20 I had to see that there were other young men who were my age, who were normal, who were having fun, who were cool.
Jared Murray: Who I could connect with to be able to [00:12:00] identify, right? If I was in a setting where I was around guys who were way older than me, with wife and kids and career and all that I wasn't gonna connect to that as much, you know? I needed to be around Young men who I could really relate with and identify with because if I wasn't, you know, I know you guys probably can relate with this.
Jared Murray: My disease is gonna focus on the one difference instead of the 99 similarities, you know, I mean that I'm someone like it's a disease of isolation. So I need to be able to find common ground with guys and I think we do a really good job of fostering that for young men and you know, what's really important and one thing I want to highlight like we do some really exceptional trauma work.
Jared Murray: Dual diagnosis work attachment focused work. I mean, those things are a lot of the things that we focus on but I really love talking about the experiential and the adventure based stuff that we do, you know, and when I'm talking to families, I'm like, look in group Tuesday mornings and Saturday mornings for group they're going to be surfing or free dive in or fly fishing or kayaking or paddle boarding, whatever it is that we're doing.
Jared Murray: [00:13:00] In terms of our experiential, experiential curriculum at that time. And what's important for these guys is through having those experiences that's what allows them to engage in this work. You know what I mean? If we keep them in a setting where they're just staring at the same four walls every day, sitting in the same groups, hearing the same things, like they're never going to engage in this stuff, man.
Jared Murray: But we get guys outside and allow them to have these experiences that really helps them find themselves and really helps them connect. To the guys around them in the program. Right. And I think doing that kind of work man is so therapeutic and so crucial for this age population. You know, like it's amazing when you see a resistant 19, 20 year old come into the program and get out, you know, in the water and catch a wave.
Jared Murray: Like we were on the clinical morning meeting, we were on the clinical morning meeting this week and we had this guy come to us and he is wanted to leave the whole first week that he is been there. 'cause that's what happens at primary treatment, right? Like he came in resistant. And like he went out surfing with the guys and afterwards was like, man, that was a killer experience.
Jared Murray: You know, I might, I might actually be able to enjoy it here. [00:14:00] You know, like he, he really had an experience with recovery, in my opinion. Yeah. Through that. So, man, I love that we do that kind of stuff. That's huge. 
Justin Mclendon: Yeah. I mean, you know, the whole idea of experience recovery or even, you know, a lot of these like adventure based programs and things like that.
Justin Mclendon: As a matter of fact, one of the podcasts we we did with someone earlier today was with It's an adventure recovery program, Tim with Adventure Recovery, and, you know, it just never ceases to amaze me, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, like learning to have fun and recovery and yes, that's important.
Justin Mclendon: I don't want to devalue that that is important, but there's something about. Like you're saying, Jared, like that experience, that, that feeling of you know, the dopamine rush that we get from those experiences, the connectedness of being able to share those experiences with other people. I mean, it's just something deeper that I think sometimes is really difficult to find in an office clinical setting, or it takes a lot more work to maybe get to that place.
Justin Mclendon: You know what I mean? You know, not to devalue [00:15:00] clinical work. I mean, I'm a therapist. I think there's a lot of value there. But there's just something of essence in doing that experiential work that is just really hard to find in other places. One 
Ryan Jarrell: hundred percent. And I think one of the things is that it, you know, people don't, I think, assign it as a classical value, but adventure exploration, those are values that people have, especially that young men have.
Ryan Jarrell: It's the thing that they've been chasing in this substance use. And so they get to address and empower themselves and their values. I had an experience when I was We took the guys at Green Hill, we took them rock climbing, you know, and we got the instructor. And at one point, a client at Green Hill was operating was, was using the belay for me, myself, who was the program director at the time.
Ryan Jarrell: And you know, it was pretty scary for me, right? It was, it was a kind of terrifying experience. This guy seemed to have a real inability to do laundry, and he was responsible for my life, essentially, at Pilot Mountain. But it was, it was really, really beautiful. I think what a lot of people, I think what a lot of parents really struggle to see with young people in recovery, this was definitely true for me.[00:16:00] 
Ryan Jarrell: Is the complete lack of self efficacy. The complete lack, I did not believe I could do anything at my core. I certainly couldn't do anything without drugs and alcohol. And that's what that escape was. And, and that adventure therapy builds up self efficacy like nobody else. You know? It's true. I, I know you guys have a lot of real specific kind of experiential options.
Ryan Jarrell: Do you guys work with people in the Wilmington area and in the Wilmington recovery community there? 
Jared Murray: Yeah, we do, man. We have a lot of relationships with you know, people in our recovery community and locally in Wilmington on the, on the topic of experiential work we have a relationship with the Wrightsville Beach Outrigger Canoeing Club.
Jared Murray: And so our guys get in these big outrigger canoes and, you know, do some outrigger canoeing around in the Bay. Which is cool, man. You learn about teamwork, you learn about connecting with these o with with each other. You learn about trust and, and trust in the other guys to, to row. And you know, there's, there's a lot that goes into that outrigger canoe and I got to do it with the guys when I was down there one time.
Jared Murray: And again, like we're talking about, it's really through those experiences that. The [00:17:00] connectedness happens the self efficiency happens. I can't say that word. Right? You can't Ryan means, but man, those things are crucial. And for me getting sober when I was 20 recovery had to become a lifestyle for me.
Jared Murray: Right? It had to be something. That I really could truly see myself living out each day and for the young men coming into our program recovery happens throughout the in our therapeutic groups and, you know, recovery happens in individual therapy. Growth happens in those in those ways. Those things are crucial to the therapeutic process.
Jared Murray: But where I see guys engage the most is when I see 20 of them running around on the softball field, smiling and laughing. You know what I mean? I couldn't remember the last time I laughed or smiled or had fun, you know what I mean? And when I was in treatment coming alive again in that way and experiencing stuff like that helped me see that hey, this is something, man, that I might not hate, you know?
Jared Murray: Sure. And I don't know, for this population, for young adults, that stuff's just crucial. I can't express it enough, you know? Yeah, 
Ryan Jarrell: [00:18:00] absolutely. You know, I think one of the things that, that, and we've probably talked about it on this podcast before, but I think it needs to be said, I'd like to talk about length of care and the importance of that, because I think it's something that, I mean, Jared, you know, Justin, you know, I know, people really balk at the idea, I mean, when you tell them that you have a continuity of care of 9 to 12 months, I mean, I think that really blows people's minds.
Ryan Jarrell: And I'd really be interested in, Justin, your, and Jared your point of view from clinical and someone very experienced in the recovery industry, what is the importance of that continuity of care and the hmm. 
Justin Mclendon: Jared, you go 1st, buddy. 
Jared Murray: Yeah, I mean, since I've been working in this industry, which has been now just for about, you know, 8 years I've only, you know, worked at long term programs.
Jared Murray: And that's what I'm a huge believer in. And what I love about our continuum at momentum is we have the ability to take young men all the way from residential. Care to extended care all the way to sober living, you know, through a full continuum of 9 to 12 months where we can slowly stand them on their [00:19:00] own two feet while giving them every single tool.
Jared Murray: They need every step of the way to help them successfully do that. And we help them do that at their own pace. Our program is not 1 where it's you've done 90 days. You're 90 days is up, but you're going to the next phase. It's we only phase guys up if they're ready for that, you know, love and individualized.
Jared Murray: Our care is, but we all know that every, you know, bit of outcome studies we've ever seen in this field points to the longer you can keep people engaged in a structured setting over a long course of time, the better outcomes we're going to have, you know, and I'm a big believer in this, that recovery does not happen overnight.
Jared Murray: It happens over time. And you know, I can't tell you how many guys, and you guys see this too. Mm-hmm. that I've worked with doing this work who have just done the revolving door of traditional 28 days of treatment over and over and over again. And maybe when they've done that, they haven't followed through with aftercare recommendations.
Jared Murray: Right. But, you know, it's just understanding that 30 days isn't long enough to fully treat the magnitude of the, the complicated issues that we deal with. You know, and this healing [00:20:00] takes. Takes a long time, man. And the longer, because that's the thing, right? It's like, when we talk about resistance, when we talk about guys that are pre contemplative I've seen many that are still kind of struggling with that, even 90 days into our program, right?
Jared Murray: But when we get them into that second phase, or into that third phase, and we keep them longer, We, we see a shift eventually, hopefully, right? That's the hope. And, you know, sometimes that shift just doesn't happen right at first. It needs time for that to be able to happen, you know, and that's what I love about having a full continuum and having the capacity to work with guys on a long term basis.
Jared Murray: I think it's so crucial. 
Justin Mclendon: I couldn't agree with you more, Jared. I think you know, we, we have, again, we have these conversations with families and with clients all the time. And I think it's, It's true, especially when you're, you're looking at a program like momentum or some other programs that are based on a, on a, on a longer length of stay there's kind of that sticker shock, right?
Justin Mclendon: It's Oh my God, you're asking me to go away somewhere for, you know, three months, six months, nine months. And that's a lot for them to digest. [00:21:00] But I think number one to, to, you know, go back to what you're saying, Jared, I think number one, like length of time in. In clinical care, receiving that clinical support is directly correlated with your increasing your chances of successful sobriety, I mean, hands down.
Justin Mclendon: And I think you can't argue that point. I mean, I think we see it time and time again, as you said, Jared, I think there's so many people that do these, you know, 28 day, 30 day programs and they think that it's just a one time thing. They can go in, I'm going to, you know, commit myself for this month and then I'm going to come out and I'm not going to follow any recommendations or aftercare.
Justin Mclendon: And I'm, I'm just fine, right? I'm going to go in, I'm going to, you know, do my time, so to speak, and then I'm just going to be cured. And somehow life is just going to look completely different when I come out. And the reality is, is that just does not work that way, right? So I think you got two options.
Justin Mclendon: You can either, it's going to take about a year, at least clinically, and it may continue on more of an outpatient basis past that. And obviously utilizing community support, you know, working a personal program of [00:22:00] recovery, these things are super important. But. If you're not going to a facility where you're going to be there for, you know, six months more and slowly step down to those levels of care, then you're going to do it in a disjointed fashion.
Justin Mclendon: You're going to do 30 days plus of residential, then you're going to come out and you're going to do an IOP. Then you're going to step down to an outpatient, like you're going to do the same thing. It's just going to be in different settings, right? And I think for those people that are willing to do that in a facility like Momentum or places that have that more longer term kind of modality it's, it's more helpful because at least if you're going to do that work for that amount of time, at least do it in a place to where, you know, the team is going to have continuity.
Justin Mclendon: They're going to be able to communicate. There's just going to be more of a seamless transition from one level of care while you're staying supported in that environment, instead of, you know, going to the residential program and then hoping that the residential program team is going to communicate with the IOP.
Justin Mclendon: And then when you step down to OP, that the IOP is going to [00:23:00] communicate with the, with the therapist that you're going to see, like you get, you're, you're rolling a lot of dices in that situation, I think, you 
Ryan Jarrell: know. 100%. I also think I like the cultural element of being a young person specifically in recovery, like the idea that I could have done 30 days of residential treatment and then return to a dorm room, you know what I mean?
Ryan Jarrell: Where like, where there's drug dealers and drinking just everywhere. I'm, I'm just not going to have, I'm just setting myself up for failure in that regard. And, and kind of winnowing and sorting between who is going through a quote unquote phase like people thought I was and who has a genuine substance use disorder.
Ryan Jarrell: You just can't tell, you know, and to throw you in that milieu is just, it's just really difficult. 
Justin Mclendon: It's difficult. And you know, again, all of this, not to say that maybe some people are successful when they do that, right? Maybe some people, you know, they, you know, they wake up one day, they're like, Hey, I need to make a change.
Justin Mclendon: They go to a detox, they go to a 30 day program, they get a therapist afterwards. And And they're, and they're sober, right. And they're happy and that's fine. I think for the vast [00:24:00] majority of people, things just don't work out that right. Like you're saying you can't, you know, leave from a potentially like a dysfunctional family system where you've been struggling and not been able to maintain sobriety.
Justin Mclendon: You know, go be sober for about 30 days and then go right directly back into that family environment or that home environment and then expect that it's going to be okay. Definitely not a dorm room. For sure. 
Jared Murray: A dorm room. Back in the city. Alabama. 
Ryan Jarrell: Yeah, going to the press. 
Jared Murray: That's right. In talking about the full continuum and in talking about long term treatment like we are, especially with young adults, like it brings me to You know, just the whole theory of the family's part in that, right?
Jared Murray: And the part that they play in engaging with us and treatment to continue to keep their loved one with us. You know what I mean? Because... You guys see it on the front end all the time, like the way that guys get to us typically is because parents are putting down some boundaries and utilizing some leverage and, you know, understanding and following our direction when we tell them like, hey, it's not that your son won't be successful or not that they don't want to get better, they just don't [00:25:00] know how to rationally make the best decision for what they need right now, you know, and coaching them on how to put those boundaries in place.
Jared Murray: And the thing is, is we have that intervention on the front end, right? And we asked these guys for a minimum commitment of 90 days and then typically what we see is around that 90 day mark we have to have that same intervention, you know, and the hope is, is that throughout 90 days, we're continuously prepping the family and preparing them for understanding that there is a next step after primary treatment.
Jared Murray: The importance of that, you know, but also the part that they're going to continue to play and helping them get to that next step because families will think, well, you know, they've been there for 90 days. They sound better look great. They're eating. Well, they're saying all the right things. They're good to come home, you know, and it's continuing to educate them that hey, this, this process is still not over.
Jared Murray: And in order to get them to the next level of care, we're gonna have to probably have a conversation about boundaries again. You know, and that's the family's role, right? In keeping 'em in treatment for a, for a year. And, and their part is so crucial for their loved one to have a successful outcome, [00:26:00] you know?
Jared Murray: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Do 
Justin Mclendon: you Jared, do you guys at Momentum, do you have a family component? Do you work with the families on exactly that? Like setting those boundaries, understanding how to. Kind of, kind of what support looks like and how to get their own treatment, so to speak. 
Jared Murray: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so at Momentum, we have that same belief system and philosophy that if the whole family system is not recovering together, it's going to be really hard for their loved one to have a successful outcome.
Jared Murray: I hear our owner, Rick,
Jared Murray: I hear Rick always mention that the guys who come to us that engage in our program that have their families also engage in our program and and do the things that we recommend and trust us, you know what I mean? And follow our guidance throughout the whole process. Those guys do well, you know? And so how we go about working with the family and engaging the family is all of our families get weekly family therapy.
Jared Murray: Thank you. On a weekly basis, they also [00:27:00] attend a weekly support group that we do via zoom on Thursdays where they all kind of hop on zoom and we have 1 of our masters level therapist facilitated support group via zoom. And then a big thing that we do is a 2 day intensive family workshop that we do quarterly.
Jared Murray: So, every 90 days. And families will come in town for that workshop and day one will be a lot of psycho education around attachment work and kind of what we're trying to accomplish with your loved one, educating them on all of those types of things, right? And then day two, we actually bring the family and their loved one in and we do family sculpting and psycho drama with the entire family, which is one of the most powerful processes these families.
Jared Murray: You know, could experience with their loved one. We've seen so much powerful stuff happen in those settings during the family program. And, you know, I want to mention it too, like the, the COVE, right? Our Young Women's Program. We do the same thing with them as well. The same family program, the same family therapy, you know, the same roadmap.
Jared Murray: Which is 
Justin Mclendon: crucial. Absolutely. It is crucial. [00:28:00] I mean, as, as you mentioned, I think if especially, I think for everyone, but especially that younger adult population, I mean, like the families if they're not engaged, it's just so much more difficult of a process for the client to be able to find recovery for their self, you know?
Ryan Jarrell: Or how much it's so often the idea that the child is the problem, everyone else is fine. If the kid would only act right, then we would all be in this harmonious kind of correlation without seeing that we're all impacting each other. We're all pushing and pulling in these very specific kind of ways. And it's difficult to give families to have that kind of eye opening experience that they need to engage in their own kind of step of recovery.
Ryan Jarrell: I know you guys do the COVE as well. I would love for you to talk a little bit about that, Jared, if there are differences between those programs or how it's different for you guys to interact with young women as you interact with young men. 
Jared Murray: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think there are like, you know, some differences, right?
Jared Murray: I know when, when Gabby had the vision to, to open the cove and do the women's program it was to have a heightened, you know, [00:29:00] trauma component to it. However, like we do trauma work with all of our guys too on a very deep level. But the women's program specifically, you know, a very trauma informed trauma based program, you know, we have therapists who are certified and.
Jared Murray: EMDR, somatic experiencing, brain spotting, which are all different modalities we work. You know, through trauma with, you know, with, with our, with our young men and our young women. And dealing with the young women, you know, we, we started out initially as an 8 bed program and we're just serving these women in extended care and sober living.
Jared Murray: We, we, we're, we've not been offering primary treatment for them. What we've done recently is we've actually just now expanded our extended care and we have more beds for extended care, which is good to know. And so we just moved our young women to a new campus. That is similar to the men's setup.
Jared Murray: And so it backs up to the saltwater Marsh. We have brand new townhouses that exist on this campus. They're awesome. Really awesome facilities. It's a really unique campus and we're [00:30:00] super excited about that. But as far as the programming goes, everything's the same besides us not having primary yet. For young women that is, that is hopefully going to be coming soon.
Jared Murray: That's great. 
Justin Mclendon: It's definitely a needed resource for sure. I think not to get on that whole soapbox, but you know, I think young adult treatment, especially adolescent treatment, which I know you guys don't do. I mean, there's a huge need for that, but there really is a lack of services. I feel just kind of in North Carolina in general for, for a female specifically.
Justin Mclendon: I mean, it's so it's, it's great to hear that you guys are offering that and then they're going to expand those services. 
Jared Murray: Yeah, we've just seen a lot of a lot of need for it. Right? Basically, like, when we first opened up the women's extended care we got filled up pretty quickly and got on a wait list pretty quickly because there's not a lot of long term options for adult women, you know, like we're talking about and and I think options that are gender specific that are, you know, age specific that are specialized in that way of working with trauma and co occurring issues.
Jared Murray: Right. that are long term, you don't [00:31:00] see a lot of that, you know, for women for sure. And so, you know, I think those, I think those components are crucial. 
Ryan Jarrell: Absolutely. I love how you guys really address that recovery can't be this monolithic experience. That there are demographic specific experiences that are, that are best addressed within that demographic.
Ryan Jarrell: And, and just because it's a, it's a more holistic and, and, and better treatment. And it's A young body isn't going to react the same way as, as someone who is older. And the mental health operates in the same way. You talked a little bit about Gabby, and I think it's something that we don't talk a lot about.
Ryan Jarrell: I know we talk a lot about clinical modalities, but I wanted to ask a little bit about how important is it to have you know, a psychiatric nurse practitioner really kind of keyed in to your milieu and, and, and how psychiatric medication might play a role over someone's continuum of care at Momentum?
Ryan Jarrell: Yeah, that's 
Jared Murray: a good question. And she's a psychiatric PA, Ryan. Oh, 
Ryan Jarrell: I know. She's going to listen to me. Sorry, Gabby. I'm sorry. 
Jared Murray: No, but, but, I mean, just to just to talk about [00:32:00] Gabby, not to get in too much of the weeds with medication and stuff, because that's really her topic that she is so skilled with, but just to talk kind of about her and her skill set.
Jared Murray: You know, she has a large background in clinical mental health. A very extensive background of substance abuse as well. And what's really dynamic about Gabby is she meets with our guys and our girls weekly, you know, at first and, and definitely does thorough med assessments with them, thorough evaluation kind of with them on the front end and goes over everything from their childhood up to what led them, you know, into treatment.
Jared Murray: And what's great about Gabby is, She's the center of our pro she's a big part of our program, right, she's there, you know, every single week, Monday through Friday, you know, she's there, and she builds real relationships and rapport with these guys. Not to say that not all psychiatrists don't do that, but, you know, a lot of programs you'll ask somebody, hey what was the psychiatrist like there, and they're like, oh, you know, I met him once or twice, maybe, the time that I've been here.
Jared Murray: Well, Gabby is meeting with him on a consistent basis, and she's a therapist by trade. She's [00:33:00] certified in somatic experiencing. So I think what sets her apart is it's not just like the psychiatry, medication conversation or topic that she meets with these guys and girls on, like she builds real relationships with them.
Jared Murray: She does, you know, even engages in some trauma work with them, you know, because she's also a therapist by trade. So you kind of have that psychiatric skill set, the therapist skill set mixed into one, and she just builds real rapport and relationships with them. What's interesting is some of our guys, not as much the girls, but some of the guys look at her as Oh, I can trust her like she's an outsider and she's you know, I'm the medical director and everything you tell me is going to our whole clinical team, you know, but it just speaks volumes about her ability to build rapport and trust, you know, and.
Jared Murray: Yeah, we're very, very fortunate to have her, for sure. 
Justin Mclendon: Yeah, that's huge, especially for a medical provider. I mean, we are also blessed with Dr. Hong, our medical director. He's very much the same. He's also skilled in therapy, and he will really spend time with, with patients and not to say anything negative about.
Justin Mclendon: Doctors in general, but I, I feel like [00:34:00] that is a difficult thing to find in that, in that particular part of the field for sure. 
Jared Murray: It is, it definitely is. And she helps so much with medications and different mental health issues that we can work with, you know, she's a major component of, you know, being able to set us apart in some ways and helping us work with various issues, you know, the comes to different dual diagnosis issues and medications.
Justin Mclendon: That's great, man. That's good stuff. 
Ryan Jarrell: Well, Jared I, I think we're coming close to our time here. Is, you know, is there anything else that you want, that you want us to know? Anything you'd like to broadcast about Momentum, about yourself? 
Jared Murray: Man, I mean, no, not, not that I can think of. You know, I just, I love doing this work.
Jared Murray: As you guys know, I'm extremely passionate about it. I love working with families on the front end. I love doing the admissions piece, you know, as well. And just kind of diving in the trenches with them. We've had so much good experiences working with you guys. Like y'all are just phenomenal on the detox and stabilization [00:35:00] piece and so responsive and.
Jared Murray: You know, just do such a good job and helping us on the front end and we appreciate you guys for that and love working with y'all. So, Jared, let me, 
Justin Mclendon: let me hit you with this real quick, man, not to put you on the spot. So if we had if you had to say one thing to any potential families or potential clients that are kind of kicking the tires of treatment or.
Justin Mclendon: looking to stop their use and step into treatment. What, what would be like one nugget that you'd kind of leave them with? 
Jared Murray: Man, there's so many, right? I guess the one nugget would be like, you know, as cheesy as this sounds, I guess is to not, to not lose hope, you know, like don't, don't give up on them. If there's one thing I really try to help families see is like, When they get on the phone with us, they have so much compassion fatigue, you know what I mean?
Jared Murray: They they aren't able to view their loved one as a cancer patient anymore that suffers from a chronic progressive disease Yeah, you know because the person that's cancer doesn't steal from you lie to you manipulate you You know what? I mean? So they develop this [00:36:00] compassion fatigue and when they get on the phone with us, man, they're tapped out And so the biggest thing we try to accomplish with them Is helping them get on this side of compassion and empathy again with them.
Jared Murray: Because if we can achieve that with families, then like we can move them into action. So to really want to get them the best help that they need, you know? So, yeah. Amen, brother. 
Justin Mclendon: That's for sure. Well, thank you, Jared. 
Ryan Jarrell: Yeah. Thank you so much for taking the 
Jared Murray: time, man. This has been awesome. I'm glad my cat didn't jump on the screen over here.
Jared Murray: I'm kind of 
Justin Mclendon: upset that it 
Ryan Jarrell: didn't. Yeah. 
Justin Mclendon: Maybe better luck next to him. I guess 
Jared Murray: that's right. That's right.[00:37:00]

Question 2

Show Notes

Accepted Answer

In this compelling episode of the Finding New Waters Podcast, we sit down with Jared Murray, a seasoned expert in addiction recovery and admissions at Momentum Recovery. Delve into the world of long-term recovery and discover why traditional 28-day programs may not be enough to address complex issues. Jared emphasizes the significance of extended care, family engagement, and the gradual transition to independence for young adults seeking sobriety.
Listen in as we explore the unique challenges faced by individuals on their recovery journeys and how a full continuum of care can make all the difference. Jared also highlights the crucial role of psychiatric care and trauma-informed therapy in achieving lasting recovery. If you or a loved one are navigating the path to healing and sobriety, this episode offers valuable insights and hope. Tune in now to embark on a transformative journey toward a brighter future.

Jared Murray & Momentum Recovery Links: 
⁠https://www.momentumrecovery.com/⁠(https://www.momentumrecovery.com/)
⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jared-murray-2bb3b064/⁠(https://www.linkedin.com/in/jared-murray-2bb3b064/)
⁠https://www.instagram.com/momentum_recovery/⁠(https://www.instagram.com/momentum_recovery/)
⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/momentum-recovery/⁠(https://www.linkedin.com/company/momentum-recovery/)
⁠https://www.facebook.com/MomentumWilmington⁠(https://www.facebook.com/MomentumWilmington)

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The Healing Power of Long-Term Recovery and Family Involvement with Jared Murray