Welcome to a brand new episode of "Finding New Waters." We're excited to introduce our guest, Kenneth C. Gooding, widely known as KC, who has recently taken on the role of Chief Marketing Officer at Jaywalker Lodge. Hosts Justin Mclendon and Ryan Jarrel dive deep into KC's impressive background and his invaluable contributions to the field of addiction recovery.

KC joins the senior leadership team at Jaywalker Lodge, bringing with him a wealth of experience and a passion for helping individuals on their journey to recovery. In this episode, we discuss how KC's collaborative and creative approach has impacted the field of behavioral healthcare. He has held pivotal roles in organizations such as 449 Recovery, New Method Wellness, and Burning Tree Programs, serving as a brand ambassador, admissions counselor, family support specialist, and professional relations manager.

Moreover, KC is not just a marketing expert; he is a dedicated advocate for the addiction recovery industry. Learn about his involvement as a state captain for advocacy efforts in California and Washington, D.C., his role in committees like NAADAC's public policy committee and NAATP's membership committee, and his leadership as the president of The California Alliance for State Advocacy (CASA).

Join us in this engaging episode as KC shares his personal journey and discusses the critical importance of strategic partnerships, brand development, and clinical outreach in the world of addiction recovery. Whether you're seeking insight into addiction treatment or marketing leadership, KC Gooding's story and expertise offer a compelling perspective on both.

Tune in now to "Finding New Waters" and be inspired by KC's dedication to making a difference in the lives of those seeking recovery and wellness.

KC Gooding Links:

⁠https://jaywalkerlodge.com/jaywalker-lodge-welcomes-kc-gooding-as-chief-marketing-officer/⁠

⁠https://www.facebook.com/kc.gooding.5/⁠

⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/kc-gooding-0bab96132/⁠

⁠https://www.instagram.com/calisparty/⁠

Finding New Waters Links:

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KC GOODING VERTICAL

[00:00:00]

Justin Mclendon: How you doing, everybody? Thank you for joining us for another episode of Finding New Waters. My name is Justin McClendon, executive director here at New Waters Recovery. I'm joined by Ryan Jarrell, our continuing care coordinator. And then our guest today is no other than KC Gooding, who is the chief marketing officer with Jay Walker Lodge.

Justin Mclendon: And Jay Walker is out in

KC Gooding: it's Colorado? Yeah, Carbondale, Colorado.

Justin Mclendon: There we go. So Casey, I always like to start this out if you're okay with it. And maybe just, I'm curious as to always, you know, what brought people into the field, right? So maybe just, you know, what got you interested in working in this field and where has that led you,

KC Gooding: I guess.

KC Gooding: Well, that's a funny story with me. I mean, and I think it starts with, you know, a lot of guys that do the work and professionals that do this work start with their own personal story of recovery. You know, I'm an alcoholic and an addict. I've been sober since 11 29 2012. At which time my family provided an opportunity for me to join them on this thing we know as recovery.

KC Gooding: You [00:01:00] 35 years old, not doing much in life. I couldn't rub two nickels together. I managed to make it that far in my life, but in 2012 I was supported with the opportunity to enter treatment. I stayed in Southern California where I went to treatment for you know, so a good amount of time I ended up staying there a decade, but initially it was go through treatment, create AA recovery community, get a sponsor, work the steps and launch into recovery.

KC Gooding: And as far as being a professional in the behavioral healthcare space, you know, to be completely honest with you guys, I did not really want to work in this field. Reason being is when I first went to treatment, I saw people that were working in tech positions. And, you know, I had a a girlfriend at the time who became my fiance, who's now my wife.

KC Gooding: And, Okay. You know, I wasn't going to be a live in sober living manager or a behavioral health care tech. And I saw a lot of people that worked in you know, in the therapy, therapeutic components. And I wasn't going to go back to school and become a [00:02:00] therapist. Additionally, I didn't see a lot of people that were staying sober that were working in the field.

KC Gooding: You know, a lot of those texts would get involved in the treatment business relatively early in their recovery. And we'd see them back in the meetings taking newcomer chips. And so for me it was a little bit scary. And there was obviously, I was getting sober in a very treatment saturated area in Southern California.

KC Gooding: So, a lot of treatment around me, but not something necessarily that I was very vastly interested in. Until I had about two years of recovery and I found out that there were people that do admissions and marketing and business development that kind of coincided with a lot of the skills, personal skills that I had.

KC Gooding: And a friend of mine was working at a treatment program who invited me to speak with his boss. And one thing led to another and here I am 10 years later. That's great,

Ryan Jarrel: man. That's great. I can really empathize with that. I think Justin and I, we both, we were on the other side of the country in South Florida, and I think it's a very similar kind of environment where there's a [00:03:00] lot of treatment and not a lot of recovery, and it's an unfortunate thing to see kind of, kind of unfold around you.

Ryan Jarrel: It can definitely leave a sour taste in your mouth regarding the industry.

KC Gooding: That's very true. For sure. For sure. I mean, a lot of good treatment, a lot of very average treatment and some poor treatment, right? And so you have a melting pot of individuals that are coming from every different area. I mean, in that community, very rarely did I find somebody that was like a native California and live there their whole life and was engaged in the recovery community there.

KC Gooding: Although there were a few you know, my best friends were from New York city and Arizona and Idaho and Tahoe and different places like that. And you know, that's what ended up becoming my recovery community that was about me there eventually. That's awesome. That's awesome.

Justin Mclendon: And when did you, or how long have you been with with

Jay

KC Gooding: Walker?

KC Gooding: So I've been with Jay Walker for the last year and a half. I you know, I started my behavioral healthcare career in 2014 in Southern [00:04:00] California. I worked for an outpatient program called four, four, nine. I did that for about two years. I worked for five years at a program called New Method Wellness in San Juan Capistrano.

KC Gooding: And then the year prior to me coming here to Burr, to Jay Walker, I lived, I worked on the national business development team for burning tree programs. So in May of 2000 and 22, my wife and I packed up a U Haul in Dana Point, California. And drove right here to Aspen and you know, we live here close to the program at Jay Walker in Carbondale, Colorado now.

KC Gooding: That's awesome,

Justin Mclendon: man. That's awesome. So we know of Jay Walker, but you know, anybody who's listening or watching the the podcast episode, I'd love for you to have an opportunity to just talk a little bit about, you know, what is Jay Walker services, you know, kind of population,

KC Gooding: all that good stuff. Yeah. So you might even ask like, golly, you know, you're living in Dana point, California, you've created a recovery community there.

KC Gooding: [00:05:00] You've got 10 sponses and you're doing this right. Everything. And you've you know, planted your flag in Southern cloud, California. What would be so riveting that you would be willing to pack up your entire life, everything, you know, on an opportunity to go to some small mountain town of 7, 000 people located in the Western slope of Colorado.

KC Gooding: Right. And you know, that's exactly what it was for me though. You know, I think everything that has transpired in my recovery and my journey as a behavioral health care professional prepared me to take on the challenge that's that was awaiting for me here in Carbondale reason really simply is, you know, through all those years of being a young professional in this field I was mentored by some of the best and most wonderful people in our field Bob Ferguson, who's the owner of a Jay Walker Lodge being one Gary Fisher, the executive director of Circle Lodge being another one and, you know, Doug Lyons, owner and principal founder of Clear [00:06:00] Consulting were three guys that I always really looked up to.

KC Gooding: You know, it was awesome last weekend we were in Los Angeles, all three, all four of us were together and I got to take a picture. You know, and I think that us is I hope that other people that are in our field value the importance of having strong mentorship. You know, when I got sober I didn't do it by myself.

KC Gooding: I had a sponsor. I had a community of people that supported me and being in the profession we're in. It's so important to keep yourself healthy. And have other people that you can rely on to support you through this journey. So that kind of position started with my relationship with Bobby, who is the owner here.

KC Gooding: And there was an opportunity that chief marketing officer here who had been employed here for about 11 years was leaving to start his own organization. And you know, I called Bobby very organically. I wanted to check in with him on see how things were here. And we started just having a conversation on what that might look like.

KC Gooding: And, you know, to be fair and transparent, you [00:07:00] know, my wife wasn't overly excited about leaving this little village by the sea that we had this surf town that we were so comfortable in. But with you know, enough You know, leverage and support from the leadership team and the community here at Jay Walker.

KC Gooding: We came out and we're convinced rather quickly. What we found here was something entirely different than what we had experienced in California. We found very authentic people that were committed to this purpose that they have here at Jay Walker. Very talented individuals working at a program that could, CR had created a legacy over 19 years.

KC Gooding: This wasn't a startup. This was a proven commodity that has an excellent track record for success rates and a legacy of excellence over a long-term time in our field. So coming in, you know, I had to get up to speed in regards of, you know, what are the things that make jaywalker so special or so important?

KC Gooding: So, you know, [00:08:00] here at jaywalker I kind of, we'll talk a little bit about who we typically support, right? You know, a lot of our guys, they've been to a couple 30 day treatment episodes. They're really good at recovery, are really good at treatment and really bad at recovery. Somehow, some way they have, you know, went in to, you know, High containment environment programs and done very successful.

KC Gooding: They're everybody's favorite client. They're the guy that Ryan's stoked to get to the next spot because they just are sure that he's going to be successful. And then he's the same guy that comes back a month later. Right? And you're like, what happened? And you know, and so, overwhelmingly you know, almost all of the guys that come to Jay Walker are you They have an addiction professional, such as your guys themselves, as such as many people that we work with throughout the nation that is profoundly committed to the well being of not only the individual that they're supporting with the recommendation of Jay Walker, but the family that supports [00:09:00] them.

KC Gooding: And, you know, I think 7000 person town. It's been as almost a 20 year track record or history, and we have about 400 men that live in the Roaring Fork Valley that are graduates of our program that are participating in our alumni program in our active part of what we do here. And so that is really like the secret sauce is like, this thing's been built here.

KC Gooding: It's a destination. It's a sticky zip code. It. provides a lifestyle that young men in recovery can come out and build a life in recovery with a recovery community with brothers with the support of a really world class staff They can find their joy. They can find their purpose. They can find their meaning The way that we do it is over five different levels of care that span across an entire year's continuum So most of our guys are coming out There's some level of stability they've done through detox.

KC Gooding: They go through a residential treatment program and they make their way to Jay Walker with the [00:10:00] support of the program or individuals and professionals that are supporting them. And most importantly, the support of their family that is walking through this journey with them. You know, they started our landing program where they have an opportunity to kind of be integrated into our environment.

KC Gooding: We have a triple board certified psychiatrist, a man in long term recovery in medical director named Craig Bichon Also known as a unicorn not too many psychiatrists meet those same standards as him, but he's great he does psychiatric evaluations for the individuals entering the program we have Gail Matheson, who is a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner.

KC Gooding: She has a son who went through our program about eight years ago. So not only is she extremely qualified, but she understands intimately as a parent what it's like to have your son here. And then Stefan Bate is our chief clinical officer, and he oversees our entire clinical team across all programs.

KC Gooding: And he [00:11:00] manages a really multidisciplinary clinical team utilizing multiple different clinical modalities to support our individuals through the treatment process 28 days, depending on their level of stability. And then they transition into our primary lodge program, which is kind of the staple program what everybody thinks of Jay Walker.

KC Gooding: If you get on our website, you'll see a really cool building in the middle of Carbondale, Colorado. It's got a really cool mural on it. It's an iconic building. building professionals that come out and see us always want their picture taken in front of it. And that's where kind of, you have the opportunity to change, right?

KC Gooding: And so, what we've created as a result of being in where we're at, we're not in a seclusion from life. We're not using containment as an agency for change here. We're in the midst of a little mountain town on Main Street. And so what we have there is an open community model of care. So our guys are doing an equal amount of clinical services, group individual therapies, and [00:12:00] an equal amount of arts and cultural or outdoor recreation.

KC Gooding: You know, as a result of our proximity and, you know, in one look at our website, you'll see These amazing experiences that our men get to engage in on a daily basis. And I can tell you after being here for over a year and a half, I'm simply just amazed every single day of what kind of experience these men get here at Jay Walker Lodge.

KC Gooding: I would say, unlike a lot of other programs, we've talked a little bit about the psychiatric components. We've talked about, you know, the clinical professionals that are supporting them. Here at Jay Walker Lodge, we have a wellness director and an activities and expedition team that's employed full time to support our men on a daily schedule.

KC Gooding: They typically have three to four different activities that they can enroll in. Whether it be fishing, golfing, hiking, snowboarding, skiing Museums, acting theme, whatever it might be, we want to support our [00:13:00] men and creating a life of joy, abundance and meaning. Everything that's done. Yeah.

KC Gooding: Everything that's done here is really in line with what we believe in. You know, we believe that addiction. Treatment should not be a consequence of your past, rather a promise of your future and recovery. Our men are not afraid of a life in active addiction. They're afraid of what it looks like on the other side of it.

KC Gooding: And so what we need to do is show them how to live a life of joy, how to experience that in community with other people. Because if we can't show the guys how to have fun, they'll never know what the other side looks like. Absolutely.

Justin Mclendon: I mean, that's pretty amazing, man. I mean, you know, I think just some of the things that you said, I mean, snowboarding, hiking, you know, getting to engage in like arts and culture.

Justin Mclendon: I mean, that sounds amazing because to your point, I think that's a lot of about what recovery has to be about, right. Is learning to live life, right. And to, you know, kind of break the chains of bondage as I like to think about it and learn how to live a [00:14:00] life that's, you know, joyous and free.

KC Gooding: Right. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think the thing we talk about a lot is how do we equate a treatment episode into a recovery experience? And that's what we specialize in here. It's like, yes, many of us, we go into treatment experiences, we go into treatment episodes, you know, those last for a duration, but what the missing component is, how do we create recovery out of that treatment episode?

KC Gooding: So not utilizing a lot of policing. Not utilizing a lot of levels of containment, offering high levels of individual agency and enrollment is how we're able to have an effective difference in the men we support.

Ryan Jarrel: As someone who has worked in a similar setting, I think that's something that is so relieving to the client, but sometimes so terrifying to the family.

Ryan Jarrel: So I was wondering you know, kind of, what kind of family programming do you guys provide especially since you're dealing with young men over such a long period of

KC Gooding: time? Yeah, you know, the family component is you know, we talk about agents of [00:15:00] change, you know, I think there's a couple of things that, that we all believe is professionals that provide better results.

KC Gooding: I mean, you guys at new waters have a great clinical staff and they're a part of that. And, you know, us at Jay Walker, the same and. I think we all know that the longer you can keep an individual committed to quality services, the higher level of success that we're going to find, right? That's pretty proven for us, the overwhelming largest component to create changes, the involvement of the family system throughout the treatment process and recovery.

KC Gooding: So we know what it's going to look like for the individual when it's here. We've got a program that supports that man. It's, you know, it's an individualized program within a community setting. But we need to talk with families about how they participate in that journey. So about 70 percent of our guys that come here are referred from a different professional.

KC Gooding: That means an interventionist. It could be a program like new waters, but 100 percent of the families that we support, we want engaged in some form of work on their own, [00:16:00] which means we're going to recommend that they engage in the support of an addiction professional, LCSW LMF T a family case management organization that is doing their part to educate and support the family throughout the process of recovery, getting them on consent here.

KC Gooding: So our team can create a collaborative approach with the family consultant, ensuring that everybody's taking measures towards their own personal recovery. Now at Jay Walker, we're going to do a little bit more in the family system work than most programs because we're a longterm program. And so what that looks like typically is, you know, pre admissions, we're doing a lot of background work, asking the families for bios and timelines associated with their perspective of their loved one so that our clinical team is supported with accurate information that they can utilize different modalities to support the individual, understand.

KC Gooding: The challenges within the system so that we can recommend the appropriate professional to work with the family. We're also going to do a [00:17:00] lot of family workshops. So each week our family therapist, Lenny Bollier is doing zoom workshops with families providing psychoeducation and additional support from here at Jay Walker.

KC Gooding: There's weekly touches with the family from our clinical team, providing updates on their loved ones. And those aren't just updates regarding their loved ones. Those are actually check ins to ask the family how they're doing with the work. We send out family contracts with families prior to admission.

KC Gooding: Do you agree that you're going to participate in your loved one's treatment episode? We want you to sign this information and send it back to us. There needs to be a good amount of accountability on behalf of the family members, because If we identify this as a family systems disease, it does require components of work for all members of the family, not just the guy that's in care at jay Walker.

KC Gooding: On top of that, we have family weekends that come up and we invite all families to come. Last The last family group that we had 12 families 90 percent of our guys are from outside of the [00:18:00] general Colorado area. They're coming from, you know, North Carolina, they're coming from Florida, you know, New York, California, Texas, and the families are coming here to have that experience.

KC Gooding: They get that experience with their loved one. They get that experience with other families. And it's a really powerful thing to see their loved one in a new way when they come here to meet them. And then more importantly, I mean, or equally of importance recently, we've launched alumni family support groups, and those are available via zoom to all of our alumni families, whether you were here 19 years ago, or you have a loved one enrolled in care now.

KC Gooding: And so what we do is we operate that as a zoom group by monthly. And then we ask, much like you guys are doing here, we ask other professional organizations to come in group facilitate once a month for that, for families so they can get a different experience or perspective. So, we believe that this thing works the best when we have the whole family engaged in the [00:19:00] process, doing the work, supporting their loved one, and joining each other on the road to recovery.

KC Gooding: Yeah, I couldn't

Justin Mclendon: agree more. Absolutely. You know, that kind of brings up a question. I'm always interested because we deal with the same thing, right? And we completely agree with that statement in that you know, I think a lot of times you see families and I think a lot of it's just a lack of understanding, a lack of experience with this and also just being in a place of just operating out of fear and just really not knowing what to do and just only being able to rely on what they do.

Justin Mclendon: So, I think, you know, to your point, Casey, I think getting the family on board with the process and helping them understand, you know, what their role can kind of start to look like is just, is crucially important in the treatment process and the, you know, overall success, I think of the client.

Justin Mclendon: But the question that comes up for me is You know, I'm just curious how do you deal with that or what do you think would be something that you would say to that family member on that early end of recovery where they're, you know, they're operating out of fear. They don't know what to [00:20:00] do. What's kind of what comes up for you?

Justin Mclendon: What would be something that you'd want to

KC Gooding: communicate to them? Well, you know, the best story is my own personal story. I mean, I think that's where I get to draw most of the interest, right? Is that, you know, my family did. What I'm hopeful that you're willing to do right to a good result. This is what it looked like My family made changes that promoted my change You know a lot of times our families are engaged.

KC Gooding: They're you know operating out of fear as one would say They're constantly responding to the crisis that their loved one's creating in their lives, right? Most of our men are completely dependent on their families in the family system is almost turn inverted. What we need to do is help them empower them to make decisions that are based on the clinical best interest of the family and their loved one and a lot of Times there's profound uncomfortability in doing that because we've been used to a system that has been dysfunctional Right.

KC Gooding: So we're trying to flip the script. And so the best thing that I can do is kind of tell the [00:21:00] story of what my family did to save my life because I'm not, I'm absolutely convinced. Had they not stepped in, I would have been the first one to pass. I was much worse than all my friends that are now deceased.

KC Gooding: And you know, I may have been the only one who had the opportunity to find recovery as a result of my family's. Unconditional love and commitment to me as their son. So, you know, we utilize a lot of different components to encourage them. We try and leverage in a quick way. We try and identify, you know, what leverage is or implement boundaries.

KC Gooding: But more importantly, we're just trying to get them to make a call with. Enrolling in someone who can be there to support them. What we don't want to have happen is them to constantly be in a position where they are not making the best decisions in support of their loved one, and then holding themselves hostage as a result of poor outcomes based on those decisions.

Ryan Jarrel: Absolutely. I think so. So many times what [00:22:00] it is. And it seems so basic, right? But it's, you have to move away from the framework that what we're dealing with is an individual's moral failing and what we're dealing with is a disease and a systemic issue. And if you can make that perception shift, which is so difficult, but so basic you know, I've seen amazing kind of outcomes follow, but until that happens, it's just never going to happen.

Ryan Jarrel: You know, but people think it's the same thing as a teenager leaving their shoes in the living room every day, you know, and we're just we're dealing with a different issue, something so profound, and I really applaud you guys for really taking the time to do that, you know, Casey, I, as someone who was kind of an outsider from this thing, like I would see.

Ryan Jarrel: You know, experiential stuff, and honestly, I would you know, raise my eyebrow like I got sober and I can't snowboard. You know what I mean? So like, what is the value of that? And I think working in this industry, I got to see this kind of experiential element and really the change it could make in young men's lives.

Ryan Jarrel: I was hoping you could talk about what is the role that experiential therapy plays in [00:23:00] Jay Walker and how important you think that

KC Gooding: is. Yeah, I mean, I think that you know, we talk about this disease. I mean, and that's a great segue into what this is. What does that disease necessarily look like? Right?

KC Gooding: We see a lot of isolation, separation from family systems, separation from peers, a lot of reclusivity, those kind of things. That's what progressive and fatal illness looks like typically. And so, So, you know, what we have here at Jay Walker in our primary program, there's typically about 20 men and we're really focused on them creating authentic peer driven relationships with each other.

KC Gooding: So how does that happen? Right. And so when I've got 10 minutes to sit with Justin and we're on a chairlift and we are, you know, we've got nothing else to do except for just to talk each other and check in. You know what I mean? Like, how can you and I create an authentic relationship with each other?

KC Gooding: Well, I've got a captive audience for 10 minutes, 20 times a day, and it's going to be [00:24:00] Justin, it's going to be me, it's going to be me, it's going to be Ryan, it's going to be all the guys that I'm engaged in this thing with. So we're really about trying to create a community of individuals. We understand that at a certain point, if this thing is going to work, it'll be based on the relationships that I make with Justin and Ryan in my time at Jay Walker, they create that recovery community about me.

KC Gooding: Because even with a longterm program like Jay Walker treatment doesn't last forever. In fact, you 90 days. And then they step. down into a transitional program and they continue to work on developing those relationships with their peers. And then they step into independent living and outpatient services and they do that and they can stay all the way up to a year.

KC Gooding: But we're in the belief that recovery happens outside of treatment and that's what's going to happen. Certainly clinically, psychiatrically,

KC Gooding: we can process, we can do therapy that will support their deeper. Issues that are [00:25:00] taking place. But if we are going to have success in their recovery, it will come as a result of their experiences together in the relationship that they make with each other. Another thing that, you know, we talk about here is how do we find joy?

KC Gooding: You know, we have guys that haven't been, haven't experienced any true joy in years, decades sometimes, right? Like, yeah. They don't know what it's like to find joy. They're scared of it. They're holding onto the substance because that's the only thing that provides that sense of release and comfort. And they don't know what life looks like on the other side of that.

KC Gooding: So. What are some things that you love to do when you were a kid? Well, I really like to go skiing with my family. I like to go to Dairy Queen and get a nice ice cream cone dipped in sprinkled with chocolate, you know, and Hey, let's go do that at Jay Walker, right? Let's take you down the street. Let's walk down the street in freedom, not in sit.

KC Gooding: Not in seclusion, not in high security, like enroll you in the process of doing this, show you [00:26:00] something different. Engage with a community of individuals that have a lot of relative life experience. A lot of our guys are, you know, the really successful mom or dad. They've got brothers and sisters who are valedictorians and have launched into life and been successful.

KC Gooding: And our guy is sitting there in a life of guilt and shame and reclusivity and isolation. You know, we need to fight that with something that can overcome that. The power of the community and the experience that they have together is what we're betting on for them to overcome where they've been.

KC Gooding: Absolutely.

Justin Mclendon: Completely agree with that. And it's true. I mean, so similar, I have some experience in my past early in my career, I worked in not the same, but you know, similar kind of set up. And it's true. I think it's true across all age spans, demographics. I mean, when we're talking about somebody who is struggling with the disease of addiction or other.

Justin Mclendon: You know, forms of these types of afflictions, right? I think it's very true. I think it is very much a [00:27:00] disease of isolation and bondage and being deprived of feeling, you know, hope and peace and and I couldn't agree with you more, Casey, I think the formulation of those relationships and being able to slowly dip our toes back into, you know, what it feels like to not have to live that way, right?

Justin Mclendon: But to, you know, experience a little taste of joy here and there. Thank you. I mean, long term, I think that is the, for me, in my opinion, I think that is the ingredient that is so crucial for success, you know, just learning how to form those relationships, how to engage with other people, how to you know, pur pursue and understand the things that are going to bring us happiness in our life.

Ryan Jarrel: Casey, I'm curious, you get all this freedom how do you guys deal with the return, potential returns to use? And you know, I think that's sometimes a by, a byproduct and a very real reality when you're dealing with a more open treatment situation.

KC Gooding: Yeah, it's a good question and something that we engage with like almost every time we have professionals come and visit our community, I will say it happens a lot less [00:28:00] than one might think, especially considering that we're treating really.

KC Gooding: What would be known as a chronic relapse patient. A lot of times we have plenty of guys that are in their first treatment experience. We have guys that have been five to 10, those kinds of things. You know, a hundred percent of our guys suffer from a substance abuse disorder. About 80 percent of them suffer from some pretty heavy co occurring mental health diagnoses.

KC Gooding: That's why we have a, you know, the psychiatric components that we have and in therapeutic modalities that we employ. It has to do with, you know, another bet that we're placing. This is in, you know, this is a high risk, high reward situation that we have at jaywalker that makes it very unique.

KC Gooding: Right next to our lodge program is a pizza parlor in bar down the street from our our treatment program literally, you know, 500 yards is a marijuana dispenser dispensary 200 yards. The other way is a liquor store. All right. So our men are literally getting up in the [00:29:00] morning, they're going out into the community, they're walking to the yoga studio and walking right past the liquor store.

KC Gooding: A lot of them that are, you know, alcohol is their primary drug of choice. You know, we're leveraging the autonomy, we're leveraging the the relationships they have that their relationships with their peers could be so important and something that they've missed in You're in for so long that the obsession to use and go to the liquor store is superseded by their need to be a part of something that's, you know, one of the main components, but we also have a full continuum of care here with many different levels of, you know, security or, you know, stabilization, those kinds of things.

KC Gooding: And a lot of times what we see is specifically in that patient that's been to five to 10 treatment programs as they go to residential treatment. They go to PHB, IOP and sober living. They do that for like a month, they relapse and they start all the way over. They go to a [00:30:00] new program, they start that process, they do it over.

KC Gooding: They go to another program, they start all the way over. And so what happens is our men become institutionalized. Right. And they're not able to experience these things and everything's kind of taken care of for them. And, you know, they find themselves in high containment treatment over and over again.

KC Gooding: And so luckily here, I mean, we do have, you know, the landing program where there's a high level of supervision that's provided. And if there's ever any setbacks, whether an individual's in the lodge program, in the solutions program, in our sober living and outpatient program, we can bring them in. Support them, get our hands around them, work with their family, work with the family therapist, work with our team.

KC Gooding: Identify an appropriate solution to support them moving forward. Imply higher levels of accountability and responsibility. Add different... Psychiatric pieces, add different therapeutic pieces, add different case management aspects, coaching, companioning, all sorts of [00:31:00] different things that we can support them with for the interim and keep them necessary most of the time, right on track where they were.

KC Gooding: It's not always required at a certain point, if there's a relapse, if there's remorse to have an individual start all the way back over, it might be more beneficial to support them with where they're at, giving additional aspects and support. Right? So we have a lot of flexibility when it comes to that.

KC Gooding: You know, here at Jay Walker, like if you guys were to come or you could look at our buildings online, all those buildings are no more than 100 yards apart. We have five different buildings that span across an entire year's continuum. We have about 40 men that are typically engaged in services throughout that entire year.

KC Gooding: Again, there's about 400 that live in the Roaring Fork Valley. So what we have is this recovery ecosystem that takes place on Main Street and it's all around you. Like it takes me an hour to go get a gallon of milk at the grocery store because I'm gonna run into a jaywalker I'm gonna have a conversation [00:32:00] with them I'm gonna check in see how things are going My wife's gonna call and say hey you said you were going to the store for a gallon of milk and I said, yeah I am but I ran into JJ.

KC Gooding: I ran into Josh And that's just how it goes. And we want that for our men. We want them to we want them to be exposed to the success. You know, one of the really cool things that we do, like we've talked about what it looks like for the clients. We know what it looks like for the families, but what does it look for like for the alumni?

KC Gooding: So everything that we do for the clients, we do for the alumni. So on Wednesday night, our chef cooks a big dinner and a hundred guys come in for a meeting. And it's a bustling place and guys have 10 years of recovery and they have two months of recovery and they have all these things. But if you're a brand new guy coming from new waters to Jay Walker in the first week, you're going to the alumni meeting and you're meeting guys that have had success in recovery guys that are from Chicago where you're from that have a family that's, you know, a doctor and lawyer mom and the relativity is [00:33:00] astounding.

KC Gooding: Right. And you know, we do alumni expeditions. We do you know, monthly activities for the guys. There's always something that Dylan, our alumni coordinator is doing for the guys here. It's really something special to be part of.

Justin Mclendon: That's great, man. That's that's amazing. And I'm assuming, I know it sounds like you have a lot of guys that come out and they kind of, you know, they get engaged and they create a community around them and they just, it sounds like they just kind of stay in the local community.

Justin Mclendon: What about those clients that are coming in and engaging, but then at some point maybe kind of leaving the area and going back to wherever home may be for them?

KC Gooding: Yeah we have a, you know, about an equal. Percentage of that, I would say about half of the guys that come here are recommended to come here to cut with the expectation from that referring from their family to be a part of this thing in the greater whole here in Carbondale, you know, come out, plant roots and stay for a while.

KC Gooding: Stay in this sticky zip code. About 50 [00:34:00] percent of the guys that come out, they're coming out for a 90 day experience doing our primary program, doing the lodge after stabilization. And we're creating a specific treatment plan that supports them with the reintegration into their local community.

KC Gooding: And there's a lot of different parts that may be involved in that just depending on what their clinical progress is. They know that they always have a home back here with us should, They ever need to return. We encourage them to participate in a lot of the alumni activities. Come on some of the expeditions with us engage in zoom session meetings that are held for the alumni.

KC Gooding: But our position, certainly my position is supporting the individual the referent family in identifying appropriate resources a lot in the same way that Ryan's doing for you guys, right? Like, how can we put together an appropriate plan of action for. Sure. for josh that needs to go back to Des Moines, Iowa.

KC Gooding: What is going to make sure that the the things that he's done here and the recovery experience that he has [00:35:00] been provided will translate into something that he can implement in his life on a daily basis in Des Moines. You know, is there a case management component? Is there you know, a private practice therapy.

KC Gooding: Is there psychiatry? Is there an I. O. P. You know, where are we at in supporting him with this transitional plan? So there's typically a lot of work that goes into that to ensure that we're setting our men up to find success in their local communities. That's great.

Justin Mclendon: And that can be a heavy lift. I mean, we know that Ryan does that very well, right?

Justin Mclendon: But it's important though, right? I mean, that's the thing is, I think, you know, primary treatment is important. You know, and I think if in the cases where people have an opportunity to engage in a treatment such as Jay Walker I think can be much more conducive, right? I mean, just again, as we talked about being able to teach them, you know, how to live a little bit but yeah, I mean, regardless of whether they're staying or whether they're going back, I think, you know, the continuation of you know, engaging in relationships and you know, engaging, staying connected to clinical [00:36:00] care and things like that are just so crucially important.

KC Gooding: Absolutely. Yeah. I think we talk a lot of times, you know, I've worked at other treatment programs throughout my career and certainly I've worked at a couple longer term treatment programs over the last three years. I think we're always kind of looking at a year of recovery as kind of like the golden standard and I know that you guys are probably entering people, you know, you know, and In bad condition and, you know, in the hopes that we can create a plan that will support this young man, this young woman, whatever it may be in getting a year of recovery.

KC Gooding: Like, what are the things that we can, what are the pieces that we can add that will, equate to that, you know, and we know that once a person can get a year of recovery, that's a year of abstinence at the very least. Right? They have had experiences. If they're, you know, in a 12 step community, they've done some step work.

KC Gooding: They've engaged in a recovery community. They've done some service. They know what recovery looks like over a year. They've. They have experienced joy in certain ways. Again, you know, they have worked on their personal [00:37:00] relationships. They probably have a new group of friends. And so with those components at the very least, there's a much higher success rate in getting a person into longer term recovery.

Justin Mclendon: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Let's see here. So I think we're coming kind of close to our end of our time. Casey, I really appreciate you taking some time to hang out with us and chat today. And I really enjoyed getting to learn more about Jay Walker and about yourself. i'd love to I mean just kind of selfishly i'd love to come out and see the place sometime, you know I'd

KC Gooding: love to do that.

KC Gooding: I'll just give graham a call and let him know, you know we're ready to host you guys and you know, we'll get your ski passes ready and the jay walker experience, you know, because We don't have much more time until these guys are going to be on the mountain two, three times a week. That's true. With each other, you know, the fall season, while it's my favorite, it is a in short order.

KC Gooding: Our temperatures are declining on a daily basis. So, [00:38:00] okay. I'll be looking forward to some of that season. And I know a lot of our guys will be showing up with snowboards and skis and these types of things over the next month. So, you can count on that. I'll make the call for you. That's awesome.

KC Gooding: I

Ryan Jarrel: make funeral arrangements for me as well because I'm not, I only go down a mountain one way and it's on my back. So, but thank you.

Justin Mclendon: That's funny. So Casey, I always like to, I know I've kind of inserted one of these questions already, but I always like to kind of wrap these things up with you know, you being someone in personal recovery and obviously having a lot of experience with the field and helping guide individuals.

Justin Mclendon: In their own process, what would be like a takeaway or something for, you know, let's say if there was a family member or even a potential, you know, a person that's kind of struggling with their own disease right now that's watching or listening to this episode, what would be like a nugget that you would want them to take away from this?

KC Gooding: Yeah, just not to put you on the spot or anything. Yeah, I think just knowing that there's help, right? I mean, you know, certainly we work at two of the finer organizations in the nation.[00:39:00] Very different types of treatment programs. There's, you know, a wide variety of services that are available. You know, I'm a big component of, you know, identifying a professional that can walk you through this treatment program.

KC Gooding: process, right? And identify the best options that support you and your family's needs. Invest, ensure that, you know, you're doing your diligence and identifying what one of those professionals offers, you know, what their level of expertise is, how they can help you through that. Because You know, one thing that, you know, I know is that, you know, our families are experts at parenting their child because that's what their experiences, right?

KC Gooding: But they're not necessarily experts at parenting an addicted child or a child with. Heavy mental health disorders or these kinds of things. And there's not necessarily a book that's going to be out there. That's going to be riveting. That's going to turn you into an addiction professional. You know, I always equate this experience of, you know, I'm an addiction [00:40:00] professional.

KC Gooding: My wife is in finance. You know, we had a big pipe bust in our house the other day. I didn't run home, put on my gloves, grab wrenches and start fixing that thing. You know, I caught up, called a professional to help me get that done. You know, and you know, and if we have a son or a daughter who needs some support, you know, let's get a professional involved that can start paving the way we need an engineer.

KC Gooding: We need an architect of the family that can walk us through exactly what we can expect, how we can participate and what's going to provide the best opportunity for us to find success now. So that's my nugget. I love it.

Ryan Jarrel: You are not alone. Right. It's so basic. And we just think we have to keep doing this stuff.

Ryan Jarrel: We have to do it alone. We have to keep it secret within these four walls. And I love that you guys seem to be making this general movement and just having people reach out. That's beautiful.

KC Gooding: Yeah. We love it. That's great. And thank you. Love it too. Thanks for having me today. This has been

Justin Mclendon: awesome.

Justin Mclendon: Likewise. Yeah. Thank you so much Casey. We really appreciate it. It's been a pleasure chatting with you and getting to know you a little bit better. And I guess until [00:41:00] next time right signing

KC Gooding: off. Thanks guys. Thank you

Justin Mclendon: How'd we do solomon? Good

KC Gooding: good. Just make sure we're uploaded