Mark Kantor: [00:00:00] As addicts, we get so used to make it go away, make it go away. And I, and I always liken this to like muscle use, right? Um, every time I make a hard decision, that muscle gets strong. Absolutely. But every time I don't make a hard decision, that muscle gets weaker. So, you know, you're, you have to build up to it.

You know, I, I can remember that day so vividly and wanting the pain to go away, but now looking back at it and, and pretty soon after that, looking back at it was, was able to, that is a, that was a miracle moment for me.[00:01:00]

Graham Doerge: Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to finding new waters. My name is Graham Durgie, and I'm the CEO and founder here at new waters recovery. Thank you for joining us for our weekly podcast. We've got a fantastic guest for you today. We have Mr. Mark canner. Mark canner is a certified intervention professional with years of professional experience helping individuals and their families recover from addiction and other mental illnesses.

Mark grew up in Long Island and graduated from American University in Washington, D. C. Before becoming an interventionist, Mark had a 20 year career in commercial real estate in New York City and Washington, D. C., where he was recognized as a top producer on multiple occasions. In 2018, Mark relocated to Boca Raton with his wife and their teenage daughter, where he started South Florida Intervention, which offers a full continuum of recovery services for individuals who want to recover from addiction.

Mark Kantor: First of all, thank you, Graham, Justin, for having me. This is a lot [00:02:00] of fun. Um, I, I love having these conversations and, and what I, and I especially love when we talk about how we got here, what our stories are, because that's, you know, for us, that's where the river, uh, the rubber meets the road and, um, you know, the real answer is how I got here probably started, um, In 1972, you know, like many of us, we've been our whole lives and then we stumble into substances or mental illness and then we wind up here.

Um, but my story in terms of how I got into this business, how I came into the space was I was in commercial real estate, uh, for 20 years. Um, The first three years were good, and the next 17 were bad, but I had to stay in just to make sure, because, you know, for, one of my buddies said to me, he's had, for, for, you, you've been, you've been six months away from the big deal for, for six months, and, you know, and then finally it got to a point where I, I had hit a the, A [00:03:00] spiritual crisis in my life and I, and I just had to surrender and had to admit, uh, this isn't working anymore.

I'm, I'm just not, I'm not happy. I don't want to, I've, I've no interest in doing this. I have no intention of doing what I've been hired to do. I just, I want out and I don't know. What that out looks like, like where, where am I going from here? I have no better idea. And I went through what I would consider now a very necessary three or four month soul digging process to, to then have the answer given to me by my 15 year old daughter in a matter of seconds, which was, which was miraculous.

And I believe it was a God moment, but, but, uh, you know, I was really struggling with, you know, we'd moved from. Washington, DC, where we'd been for 20 years to South Florida in, in, in what I will admit was a geographical and I, and I knew that then I knew that [00:04:00] I had been sober long enough at that point to know this is a geographical, I'm just getting the hell out of Dodge, right?

So we get down there and, and it's, it's like. It's like crappy right away. Things are bad right away. Um, my relationship with my wife is kind of, we're, we're, we're getting, you know, rocky. Um, my daughter's in a big high school. That's not going fantastically well. I'm running out of money. That's, that's never good.

Um, But a couple of things that I, I did do right, where I, I maintained the foundation that I, I've picked up over the last, um, you know, many years in recovery, but there was a day where I was standing in the shower at the gym with my, my palms out, just letting the warm hit, the water hit me and I, and I literally said to myself, well, I can't drink, I can't have an affair and I can't kill myself because those are three things I can't undo.

One of them, um, You sure as hell [00:05:00] cannot do. Right. Right. Um, and, and I just kind of said, you know, and those are the rules now I got to go figure it out. And, and I was in a lot of emotional pain for a long time. And then one Saturday night, I'm having dinner with my daughter who then was 15 years old. And my wife was out of town with her brothers, I think for her mom's birthday.

And my daughter looks at me and she says, dad, why don't you start doing interventions? And I was like, Yeah, uh, that, yeah, uh, yes, that's what I'm going to do. Yes, that's it. That's the answer. And that weekend, um, her and I started working on the website and writing the business plan together. And, and it was a changing point, a turning point in both our lives.

Because when, when I got better. She got better. You know, we got better together. We grew together. We're very close. We're very, you know, we talk every day. Um, I'm so grateful for that relationship, but just to give you a little background of that, uh, few years earlier, I had [00:06:00] participated in an intervention with a friend in Washington DC and I said, Hey, I really liked this.

I can do this. I really feel motivated for it. So I started taking the, you know, the intervention. classes, they offer online. We see them being advertised all the time. And I did that and, uh, you know, so, so I really had started to want to do something differently, which set the foundation. However, I kept getting pulled back into commercial real estate.

Look, look, I mean,

Graham Doerge: you know, you've been doing it for 20 years, you know, obviously. It's the easy, it's probably the easiest path forward and the less scary too, right? Oh

Mark Kantor: yeah. You know, it, and it's the story people already know about me. I tell clients all the time, clients and family members, there were like horses that have been pulled out of a burning barn.

If you don't tie them up, they will run back into the barn because it's what they know. And that, and that was me. And I was, you know, it was, I was just an appointment. I was, I [00:07:00] was trading my. My dreams and my goals and my self esteem for, for a paycheck.

Graham Doerge: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it's, and, and, um, I obviously can relate to that a lot in, um, in the, the manner of like getting to work in this field.

Right. And I think that I was, I was, At a point in my life when I got sober that I didn't have this long career that I had been successful in or had done for a while, I was really kind of still flailing out there. So it was just such a, an easy transition to like, God, people actually do this for a living.

Uh, and, and like, what an amazing way to help other people, you know, do, do what I did. Right. Um, and so you found your purpose, right. And you, and you found, you know, obviously that drive, which is truly amazing. I'm

Justin Mclendon: curious, if you don't mind me asking, I'm just, as I'm hearing, hearing you tell a story, so then you decide, okay, this is what I'm going to do.

What did that kind of traction or the transition look like there? Was it like, okay, now I got to go, I got to go find someone to intervene on it. That's right.

Mark Kantor: Right. I [00:08:00] mean, so, so a lot of people do get into this business and they, and they, it's like watching LA law or, uh, law and order where like, Oh, wow. I want to be a lawyer.

Cause they're always in the courtroom and they're, they're, they're making these amazing arguments and that's great. And, you know, coming up with dead bodies and stuff, but the real life, it's not like that, you know, they spend a lot of time doing, you know, yeah. Administrative work. Sure. And so I think what a lot of people don't realize that this business has two pieces and one of them is the marketing piece.

Absolutely. You know, um, nobody gets to treatment. Nobody gets to versa. A point nobody gets to new waters. Mm-Hmm. until we have. A person, unless they know about us, right? Until they know we're a resource. So 50 percent of this business is, is getting the business 50 and the other 50 percent is, is, is execution is, is quality execution.

So the transition for me. Uh, was, was, [00:09:00] was hard, difficult, but not, but not hard in the way I had known hard in the past because I really felt like I didn't have anything more to lose at that point professionally. I mean, I really was, you know, done professionally in my, in, in commercial. I wasn't holding on to anything.

And, um, I, I became willing, I became willing to meet anyone. Who would talk to me and, and luckily I wouldn't meet people like Graham.

Graham Doerge: Yeah. Uh, remember when you first started and you came over to voyage and I think you were very early on in the process there, but you're out meeting everybody. Right. Any,

Mark Kantor: anyone, anyone and everyone, you know, anyone who would, you know, yeah, yeah, I was not selective and, but along the way make really good high quality people who were then willing to say to me, do you know, do you know, Justin, do you know, do you know this one?

Do you know that one? Let me, Introduce you [00:10:00] and they were very gracious. And so for me, that's part of this business is that, you know, that we do, when we find someone who's new or in a new market, we say, come with me, let me take you around.

Graham Doerge: Yeah. Yeah. And that's a beautiful thing too with. You know, this amazing network of, of professionals that we have here.

And we all work so closely together and we all, you know, if a client's not right for us, you know, I know exactly where that person has to go. Right. And it's one phone call away, you know, do you guys have a bed? What's, you know, and, um, so, you know, that's a, that's a big piece that obviously the listeners need to know.

It's like navigating this, this field is, is pretty complex. So utilizing somebody like you or, or any of us is, is really the way to go to, to know that you're getting to a good ethical. program,

Mark Kantor: right? Yeah. I, you know, I likened my intervention practice to, you know, we, we are essentially, uh, tour guides, you know, right.

Because, you know, if you were going to go to, said, I want to go to China, you call American airlines or United. [00:11:00] They'll get you there. You get to Beijing. You get off that plane, you're screwed. I mean, you don't know. Anything, right? And, and my analogy is always, well, we're there when you get off the plane and, and we take you and we, we show you and we know, and we, you know, and that's what you're, you're getting from us.

You're getting our legwork, our experience,

Graham Doerge: our, and not only that, and I think some people think that that intervention process is like, okay, you go in, you do the intervention and you kind of wipe your hands and your. and you're off, right? It's done. But really there's a whole piece to this where you're kind of managing the family.

You're managing, you know, the client after the fact, once they discharge in a lot of cases. So it's, it's, it's a long, you know, kind of runway where you're continuing to

Mark Kantor: support this continuum of care. Yeah. Yeah. And there's, and, and getting the individual into treatment is certainly represents a level of success, but it's not the end of the story, right?

Absolutely. It's just the start. It's just the start. And we, you know, I've had somebody that's been with me for the last several years, [00:12:00] uh, Kelly Densmore, who's, uh, who's our parent coach and she's going to be with us at Versa. And she works with parents. She works with spouses who are that person. Left behind at home going now.

What what do I do? You know, what do I do when they call and say yeah, you know, uh, get me out of here The chicken's not organic, you know

Graham Doerge: And I mean that's such a help for us too here as like as operators because we are Full in with the client, right? And we're doing everything with the client on a daily basis.

And a lot of times there's not a person like you that's involved in the case. So we are doing the family work as well. But when there is somebody like you, it makes things a lot smoother for our team internally, because, you know, you can handle the, the external relationship with the family and we can really focus on the client.

Right. And a lot of times there's major conflict there, right? So, you know, it's kind of good for us to just be kind of hands off and, and really be. They're there to advocate for the client, not the family,

Mark Kantor: right? You know, that is completely. And, and I always say, you know, [00:13:00] once your person's in treatment, they're being taken care of, they're, they're getting the attention they need.

And, and don't forget, people don't walk into VersaPoint or walk into new waters or call an interventionist because they're on a winning streak. They're, they're, they're in the midst. of a, of a crisis. Right. And their family's in the midst of a crisis and it's just, it just radiates through everything.

Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, going forward, one of the decisions we made as a leadership team is that we're going to refer out interventions because, you know, to do an intervention right, it's not an hour, it's not two hours, it's, it's two days. Yeah. You know, we, you know, to spend time with the family, to do the planning, to arrange treatment and all the logistics and then, and then the work and then everything it's three days, it's four days and, and that,

Graham Doerge: and that's if it goes smoothly and that, and

Mark Kantor: that's

Graham Doerge: exactly.

Yeah. And then if you get somebody who's bucking and walks out and you know, then you're kind of chasing him for a couple of days [00:14:00] or letting him fall on his face, you know, uh, you know, so to speak. Um, Yeah, it's, it can be a drawn out process. It, it

Mark Kantor: definitely can. I've had guys with me for five days where they're held up in a hotel and you're just checking in with them every once in a while.

And you know, they kind of start to come around and then, well, maybe I'll. I'll go to, you know, a therapist and maybe I'll go to, you know, as the, as the consequences are mounting or they realize they have nowhere to go, they start coming around, they become more agreeable. You mentioned,

Justin Mclendon: you know, kind of one form of success in that is, you know, getting the person to treatment.

And I think, you know, this just came up for me as I think the family, I think can sometimes be kind of fooled into that as well as that, you know, everybody's in a crisis mode. They know that there's a need for change. There's an interventionist involved, the intervention happens, you know, successful entry to treatment.

And then I think sometimes the family can do that too. It's like, okay, well we've, you know, we've won. Or like, this is good. Right.

Mark Kantor: They're where they need to be. We've done our [00:15:00] part. We've done our part. Right.

Justin Mclendon: Yeah. But, you know, like you're alluding to, I think, you know, the working with the family, the education, the support, the case management there.

to help them understand, like, this is not over yet. This is, this is a good step, but one of many, right?

Mark Kantor: Correct. Yeah. I mean the, it's all about the family system. Absolutely. Right. I mean, it's, it's, it's all about the system and you know, you can, uh, Geraldine Delaney, who is the founder of Alina Lodge used to say, if I had a choice between taking The addict are taking the family.

I'd say give me the family. Yeah, because if I can change the family I can change the You know as an interventionist You're not necessarily there to, you know, to, to change the, the individual who's using, drinking or using. You're there to change the system, right? You're there to support the, to one, help get the individual into [00:16:00] treatment, and two, give the family the support they need to keep them in treatment, right?

You're not there to But you know, you're not a travel agent, right? Cause they do call sometimes, do you have anything in Hawaii? Do you know,

Graham Doerge: but, and also, you know, part of that too is, um, um, gosh, I just lost my train of thought. We'll cut that out. Um, sorry, go on. You were just

Mark Kantor: saying, well, yeah, no, it's, it's definitely about the family.

This, the sad reality of it is that, you know, when we look at all the families we've served over the years. How many will invest a tremendous amount of money in getting their loved one to treatment? And won't do anything later on. But, but, none or very, very little money in, in actually doing themselves what they've asked someone else to do.

Right. 100%. Absolutely.

Graham Doerge: Yeah, no. And, and this is what I was going to kind of allude to before was just like, yeah, I love that, that quote from the Alina Lodge, uh, [00:17:00] gentlemen, but like, yeah, it, families just need to understand that this is, there is a lot of work that needs to be done with them. Uh, you know, I think back to my experience where, you know, my family went to maybe a couple Al Anon meetings, but kind of said, well, this isn't really for me.

And I think that people need to understand like, just like AA or any other meetings, not every Al Anon meeting is, is a good Al Anon meeting. Right. Right. And there's a reason that We say go to 90 meetings in 90 days in the beginning. So you go to a ton of different meetings. You find out the ones that work, you find out, you find your people, you find your tribe.

Mm-Hmm. and, and where you're comfortable. And uh, and then that's kind of part of the process. But I think unfortunately, so many people go, they try one out, two out, and they don't have a good experience. And then they just never go back. They, I'm not the one with the problem. Yeah.

Mark Kantor: They're the one with the problem act.

Right. And they identify out, they'll say that woman's son died of an overdose or that woman's, yeah. daughter is in jail, or my kid is just, you know, buying pills on the street, but he's at a good university, so it's different, and it's not different. It's not different at all, and thank God you're not where [00:18:00] that other person is.

Justin Mclendon: Well, and that's, you know, just to extend that thought, I think, because when people get stuck in that type of thinking, That's not their reality, because that hasn't happened yet. Right. But if it's, if they don't engage in that change, pro change process, if they don't do the work that's necessary, they could very well be that person in that Al-Anon meeting, sharing that same story.

You

Mark Kantor: know, there's no question. No question. And that is more true every day. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah, no, I, I agree. And, you know, an Al-Anon can be a little more cumbersome than aa. Sure. aa, you know, AA has a, a. You know, where we have a light atmosphere, we laugh, they cry, you know, you know, we, um, you know, in AA, you can hear someone tells a story and says, well, you know, when I was drinking, I fell off the, you know, the third story of a roof and.

Everyone laughs, right, you know because there's someone else in that room. That's also falling off But but now they don't [00:19:00] find that funny, you know And also now and on they do they're very by the book in terms of they're gonna read all this stuff Which you know, I really wish you know, cuz I do like Alan on and I am very codependent and I need it I wish they would just say, you know the way we do it.

Here's the preamble Yeah. Justin's our speaker today. Let's, let's get at it. Yeah. So, but yeah, it's

Graham Doerge: true. Absolutely. It's good stuff. So I love to switch gears a little bit because, uh, we're obviously talking a lot about intervention work, which is awesome. Great information for all of our listeners, but I wanted to talk about versa point a little bit too.

So I'm pulling this off of your website and you can dig into it a little bit. more, but Versapoint is located in, uh, Jupiter, Florida. I was actually just down there, uh, last week, absolutely magnificent home, um, on 20 acres, completely private, uh, very high end. Um, and this is what we have from the website.

Versapoint is an immersive recovery experience in an upscale healing environment. Here, concierge services are [00:20:00] fully integrated to exclusively address the needs of treatment resistant men who struggle with alcohol and addiction issues. Resting at the pinnacle of elevated luxury, we provide our residents with a life raft in the chaotic sea of life.

Discover a private sanctuary at the highest standards of comfort and care only at Versapoint. So tell us a little bit about why Versapoint, why you started this and and kind of what it's all about in the program and

Mark Kantor: Yeah. No, because there, there's, you know, a gap in the market. There's, there's, there's, there's what we designed this for what I like to call the, I'm not client.

The, the, this is the adult male, the successful, affluent, accomplished male who seemingly has a great life, right? I mean, they're their entrepreneur, they, you know, that all those things are checked, the boxes are checked except for one thing, their wife and kids can't stand the sight of them. [00:21:00] Right. I mean, that's a big thing, right?

That's a, that's a, yeah, that's a lot of pain right here. Um, so we want to design a program for these men who are traditionally Treatment resistant, you know, they're the I'm not client. I'm not going for 30 days. I'm not going to share a room I'm not gonna this I'm not gonna you know, they're laying out the rules of all the things that are not gonna do Meanwhile, their families are highly traumatized and afraid of them because they You know, any addict, uh, just to go off on the side for a second, any addict is, is naturally skilled at creating a buffer zone around them of fear.

Do not enter that zone. You know that, you know, and if you do, you will be met with resistance, unfair threats, manipulation, um, All kinds of unpleasantry, so, so we wanted to design a program that it would be, it would be, [00:22:00] for lack of a better expression, easy, an easy sell for the interventionist, for the therapist, for the referent, for the family members, to say, okay, we know you're not going to go to treatment, uh, quotes.

But would you go here for 14 days? Yes, I'll do that. Okay, so philosophically, we do, you know, we we know that And and through research we know and we know that longer term treatment is is better Better outcomes to better outcomes. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's like 90 days as you know, they say is that magic number?

Yeah But and and that's the 12 steps Work, right. But you can't lead with that with this guy, you know, cause he's resistant. Cause he went to a meeting once 10 years ago and it was a bad meeting. And I mean, you know, that guy wasn't like me or, you know,

Graham Doerge: people are going to see me and they know who I am.

I'm a high profile person. I own a huge company. I can't [00:23:00] possibly be seen in those meetings. The stigma is, is obviously still a, is still at large, right? Sure. Yeah. So, you know, as much as we're, you know, on here trying to talk about this stuff and trying to kind of reduce the stigma, uh, it's, it's still a real.

thing for a lot of people, you know, it's

Mark Kantor: out there. There's definitely a, um, you know, a belief system that, you know, comes along with, with admitting to any mental illness that there's, it's a, it's a weakness. It's, you know, it's unfair.

Graham Doerge: You might be a doctor or an attorney or, you know, any number of, of, uh, you know, professions that you have licensure and are worried about losing your license.

Mark Kantor: Right. And, and, and to that point, The reality is that every one of those practices have a an impaired professionals program The airline pilots have the HIMSS program veterinarians have it doctors have it You know every every licensed professional and the goal with those programs is to get that person healed and back to work [00:24:00] and typically their recovery is is better because of the monitoring, the ongoing monitoring.

Their recovery rates are much higher. So we wanted to create a program that we, that somebody could look and say, I'll, I'll, I'll do that. You know, so, you know, our property is gorgeous. I mean, there's nothing like it. I don't, I mean, thinking of the other high end programs that are out there, there's nothing like this, this level of privacy.

You know, we have, we're 13, 000 square foot residents on 20 acres. You don't, you can't see another neighbor. You have to go through a guard's booth to even get into the neighborhood, which is a five minute drive away. So you're talking about a lot of privacy, a lot of discretion. Everybody has a private suite.

It's a small mill youth, no more than five clients. Um, but you know, we're using all the, um, recovery principles, right. You know, uh, working in [00:25:00] groups. Um, Using the, you know, I always say, we'll rip the cover off the big book so you don't know what it is, but you know, because it does, it's good stuff, right?

You know, you taking, taking that stuff, introducing them to Dharma recovery, introducing them to smart recovery.

Graham Doerge: And meeting them where they're at, right? Yeah, very much so. That's the key, right? And, and we see those clients in here all the time where, you know, we are just fighting them for a week to get them to do anything, you know, and it is full court press by our team, you know, getting the family, getting any leverage that we possibly can, and they're just not going to do it.

Right. Right. So I think that it is, there's definitely a, There's definitely a market for, you know, uh, something like what you're doing, where it's just that kind of short term continued stabilization, maybe before going back to work or before going home or whatever that may be. Yeah.

Mark Kantor: I mean, that's the other thing we can, we can take a client on, on.

At different points in their recovery, it can be, you know, everybody comes in medically cleared, so [00:26:00] detox, so they're gonna come through new waters first, and you gotta sign off on it. So they could be at the very beginning of their journey, they could be coming back to South Florida from another program, and need to start integrating back into South Florida, but But they're not ready, uh, for to be home yet, or the family's not ready for them to be home.

So, you know, we can do things like, you know, if, uh, Practitioner therapist or a doctor has a client they're working with they could play some in our program They could go through our program, but they could also have access to that therapist. Okay that doctor We also are working with outside therapists.

I mean that and this so that's what we make me mean by non clinical We don't provide clinical services on property For, you know, obviously there are some reasons for that. There was, you know, zoning laws and things like that. Right. But, um, we do work with outside therapists. And the good news is [00:27:00] there is you, if you're a therapist, you send a client, they can, they continue working with you.

That's great. You know, or say you're coming to us from New York and you say, say, do you have a therapist? They don't say, let's find you one that's in New York that you can see when you're there. Right. So we, we find you when you start working with them while you're with us virtually. Right. And when you get back to New York, you're just continuing with them.

You don't fall into that Valley that a lot of people found that I fell into. I came home from treatment. I sat in my little office for three days in a cold sweat. Yeah. Not knowing my, you know, like what to do and, and I had a voice in my head said, go to one of those meetings. And I recognize, luckily recognize one of the addresses and the meeting list of the treatment center printed out for me and I went to, it was above the record store.

It's not a record store anymore, but I knew the record store, you know, 19 years ago. But um, but yeah, so we, we have the. The ability to do anything, you know, we have private chefs, super [00:28:00] individualized, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody, um, needs to, to work. They, they can, we, we encouraged, let's try to take a break from that and focus on ourselves.

Um, but. You know, whatever they need, if they need that, you know, uh, somebody was telling me the other day, uh, it was Jenny Mills. We were talking about Gary Fisher, who is the, I guess the, he's the first executive director of Cirque Lodge. Wonderful man, wonderful man. And she, and he said, and I think he said this to me too.

I remember he said, if somebody needs a chocolate milkshake to be comfortable in treatment, if that's, what's going to keep them from walking out there, let's get them a chocolate milkshake. Yeah, right. Yeah. It's easy. It's easy. And that's what we do.

Graham Doerge: Yeah. A hundred percent. We, we

Justin Mclendon: follow that same philosophy.

I mean, obviously there's things that we can't do or we're not going to do, but to that point, I mean, if there's little things that we can do to help somebody stay a little bit more comfortable and increase their chances of engaging more and, and this being more [00:29:00] productive for them, I mean, why not do it?

You know what I mean?

Graham Doerge: This is probably the hardest thing that there. ever going to experience in their life. Right. And if we can make that process a little bit more hopeful, a little bit more, um, just enlightened, then, you know, that's the way to do it. Right. Yeah. So there's just so many programs out there that are just so institutional and it's very rigid.

It's so rigid. And, you know, people just don't get better in

Mark Kantor: those places. Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're, they're big. They've gotten big. I mean, they're, you know, they, you know, they start off small and they, they, they, they get big, you know, for me, Mike. first day in treatment, you know, the first morning I woke up after showing up there at two o'clock in the morning and, and knowing nothing about recovery, nothing.

I mean, you'd

Graham Doerge: never been to a meeting, never attempted anything.

Mark Kantor: No, no, nothing. Zero things whatsoever. I mean, you know, I, out of all the things I Googled, In my, in my years using, uh, I never once occurred to me to say, [00:30:00] how do I stop? Or how, you know, how, how to, I, I, I knew that treatment existed. Sure. And I knew AA existed.

Of course, I didn't know what that had to do with me. Cause in my mind, I was an alcoholic. My mantra was I occasionally take more than prescribed. Right. Right. And I could go weeks without drinking, but then at some point I needed to drink every day just to get in the door, just to face my wife. Get through the door.

I needed a big gulp gin and tonic, right? And so I woke up that first morning in treatment and I like everything hurt, you know Because I used so many different Drugs illicit and otherwise, you know pills alcohol massive amounts of caffeine Uh, sugar, I was a hundred pounds overweight, you know, nicotine gum, you know, shop.

And, you know, so, you know, the treatment center I went to at the time, the original Betty Ford center, they did not have caffeinated coffee. [00:31:00] So it was ugly. I mean, it was ugly. So I woke up at that week long headache. Oh my God. I woke up that morning and I, I laid on the ground and I literally cried and just.

I just cried. And, and you know, it's interesting because you kind of need

Graham Doerge: that, right? You have to feel that pain and you have to be like, I remember when you're talking about this, I remember those feelings so well, you know, they're still so alive in me and, and you know, those initial days and the terror and all that.

And what is, what is life going to be like? Like, what does this even mean for me moving forward?

Mark Kantor: Just make it go away because you know, yeah. As addicts, we get so used to make it go away, make it go away. And I, and I always liken this to like muscle use, right? Um, every time I make a hard decision, that muscle gets strong, but every time I don't make a hard decision.

That muscle gets weaker. So, you know, you're, you have to build up to it. It's, and you know, I, I [00:32:00] can remember that day so vividly and wanting the pain to go away. But now looking back at it and, and pretty soon after that, looking back at it was, was able to, that is a, that was a miracle moment for me that that's, you know, that was probably that laying on the ground and crying was.

You know, the me now would look at that person to say, good, you're doing the, you're, you're doing work for the first

Graham Doerge: time. You're feeling your feelings. You're feeling your feelings. For the first time in probably

Mark Kantor: 17 years. Yeah, and you're in it. Yeah, you're in it. You're in it. Yeah, you're in it. You're on your way.

Graham Doerge: Yeah. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing, man. And, um, You know, this has been so fun catching up with you and, and we really appreciate you coming here in person, um, to see the place and to get on the pod. Um, do you want to give everybody your website and, uh, any links or social media? Sure,

Mark Kantor: I do. Yeah. Thank you. And well, at first I want to thank you for having me.

You've been [00:33:00] wonderful and introducing me to people. You've definitely been one of those people that said, come, let me introduce you. Let me take you around. Let me. You know, and, uh, and I really appreciate that. Absolutely. I'm grateful to you for that, and it's, and it is fun. I do enjoy it. A hundred percent.

I would, you know, it, it, I really enjoy where I'm at. I'm grateful for where I am in life, and I'm grateful for my journey and, and your journey. Versapoint. com. It's V E R S P O I N T E dot com. And our social media is Versa underscore point. At Versa underscore point. And, you know, anyone can reach me or text me anytime at 202 390 2273.

That's my, my mobile number. We, we don't have a, you know, a main number. You're going to get you if you give a call. You give a call. You're going to, you're, you're going to get me or you're going to get Kelly. Yep. And, um, You know, [00:34:00] or Michael and, uh, I think that's a mark,

Justin Mclendon: the mark of a true professional in this field.

Just put your cell phone number out there and

Graham Doerge: just call me. Just call me. You got a problem. And if you were always amazed that they're, Oh, I'm so sorry. It's nine o'clock at night and on a Saturday and I'm like, this is literally what we do all the time. You know, you know, 24 seven, we're answering the phone.

That's what we do. So, um, and we will put all of, uh, Mark's information, um, You know, on the, on the website and on the podcast. So if you guys are looking for that info, it'll be there. Um, but thank you so much for being here today. Great talking to you and we will see you guys next week. This is awesome.

Thanks. Yes.

In this episode of the 'Finding New Waters' podcast, Graham Doerge, CEO and founder of New Waters Recovery, welcomes Mark Kantor. Mark, a certified intervention professional, shares his own journey from a 20-year career in commercial real estate to supporting individuals and families recovering from addiction and mental illnesses through South Florida Intervention. The episode discusses the importance of making tough decisions in recovery, the role of interventionists, and the introduction of Kantor's new project, Versapoint. This facility offers a high-end, private healing environment created specifically for treatment-resistant, successful men dealing with addiction issues. Tune in to learn more about Kantor's unique blend of luxury, privacy, and personalized recovery strategies.

00:00 Introduction: The Struggles of Addiction

01:08 Welcome to Finding New Waters: Meet the Host and Guest

01:56 Mark Canner's Journey: From Real Estate to Intervention

05:10 The Turning Point: A Daughter's Suggestion

07:59 The Intervention Business: Challenges and Rewards

11:19 The Importance of Family Involvement in Recovery

13:23 The Role of Interventionists in the Recovery Process

14:03 The Reality of the Intervention Process

14:35 The Importance of Continued Support for Families

17:47 The Reality of Addiction and the Importance of Change

18:30 Comparing AA and Al-Anon

19:23 Introducing Versapoint: A New Approach to Recovery

20:23 The 'I'm Not' Client: Addressing Treatment Resistance

24:10 The Versapoint Experience: Luxury, Privacy, and Personalized Care

25:17 The Importance of Meeting Clients Where They Are

29:24 The Journey of Recovery: Personal Experiences and Insights

32:41 Contacting Versapoint and Final Thoughts

Mark Kantor https://southfloridaintervention.com/pages/about-south-florida-intervention

Podcast Website: ⁠⁠https://www.findingnewwaters.com⁠

New Waters Recovery Website: ⁠⁠https://newwatersrecovery.com⁠

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Apple Podcast: ⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608⁠⁠

Youtube: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw⁠

Youtube Music: ⁠https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn&feature=share⁠