Question 1

Podcast Transcript

Accepted Answer

#014 Natasha Silverbell
Natasha Silver bell: [00:00:00] Whosoever believes in me, as the scripture has said, streams of living water will flow within him. By this he meant the spirit when those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time, the spirit had not been given since Jesus had not yet been glorified, and I think Christ isn't with us in the physical world anymore, but he lives within us.
Natasha Silver bell: That's what Union is all about and understanding. Uh, it's ev every human we are in Christ's image, in God's image, and it's if we can get past the dogma and the anger and the hurt and the suffering of what religion, organized religion has done. And there's a lot of good things organized religion has done, but really has to do with that condition of the heart.
Natasha Silver bell: That's what Christ came to do is build a relationship with your heart, and that's up to you and him if you wanna use that vessel.[00:01:00] 
Graham Doerge: Good morning. My name is Graham Durge, and I'm the founder and c e o of New Waters Recovery in Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome to our weekly podcast, finding New Waters. Our goal in creating Finding New Waters is to provide a resource for families to help navigate the complexities of supporting a loved one struggling with substance use or mental health.
Graham Doerge: When we find ourselves in crisis due to one of these issues, most people have no idea where to turn. We hope to shed some light on what is often the darkest hour for many families. I'm joined today by our medic, by our medical director, Dr. Harold Hong and Natasha Silverbell, the founder and c e O of Silver Bell Coaching and Youth Prevention Mentors.
Graham Doerge: Natasha has been an established expert in the substance use space for over a decade and has grown Silverbell coaching into a global leader. [00:02:00] Silverbell Coaching is headquartered in New York City and has a satellite locations in London and Dubai. Natasha, thanks for joining us today. 
Natasha Silver bell: It's my pleasure.
Natasha Silver bell: It's so great to see you and congratulations on all your success. I'm really happy for you. Thank you very 
Graham Doerge: much, ma'am. Well, you know, Natasha and I, uh, go back many years and, uh, have worked on, you know, many cases together, you know, for probably about the last six or seven years. So it's great to get her on here.
Graham Doerge: And, uh, and really I'd love to start with just hearing a little bit about, you know, I guess your story or how much you'd love to, you'd like to share with us on that. And just, I guess, how did you, you know, get into this field and, um, and in your own, your own personal recovery, how has that really shaped your life today?
Natasha Silver bell: Wow, that's a really great opener and I'm happy to share what I feel will, will honestly be most helpful. And as I begin sharing my story, I like to begin with, how did my company find me? Cuz really I didn't have a business plan and sit down and raise capital and say, this is what I'm going to do. [00:03:00] Um, it was certainly just following where my heart was leading me, most importantly, and what was important for me as a sober mother of three.
Natasha Silver bell: Raising my children on the upper East side of Manhattan and reinventing myself as a former model and finding a way to be of help to others, but really be effective. And I think that's the most important piece I look when I create a team or collaboration, is how can we work together in alignment. To have a harmonious outcome and the family system is complex, so it's not that easy to do and navigating it.
Natasha Silver bell: And I really love the name of your, your podcast, finding New Waters, cuz that's what we're doing with our families. 
Graham Doerge: Yep. And would you say, you know, and tell us a little bit about, uh, Silverbell coaching itself and really the work that you guys do now you guys are, you know, doing interventions and really case management for, for these families.
Graham Doerge: So can you kind of dig into that a little bit and, uh, tell people what that process is like? 
Natasha Silver bell: Sure. So we [00:04:00] are, um, by God's grace, a word of mouth company, and. Finding people who, or people finding us that are really needing the support is, is the catch, because I wanna find the opening, um, openings of Grace is what they've been called.
Natasha Silver bell: Sometimes it's not a full on intervention. Sometimes it's just a gentle conversation as I'm a mother of three, from one mother to another, and I always do a courtesy 20 minutes to see is this a good fit? Is our company the. Where your family is at, are you really gonna benefit from our services? And I like to listen to where they're at and pretty quickly I know if they can benefit or not, or if I'm gonna refer them to someone else or another path in another direction.
Natasha Silver bell: I. So I hope that answers your question, but, um, at least the openings of grace is where I'm looking to be the most helpful with families. But yes, there are interventions. There's in-home support creating treatment without walls. People call it, um, quarterbacking while they're loved. One does go to treatment so the family system can have support because oftentimes, [00:05:00] The quote unquote identified patient goes and gets all this wonderful help and the family system is then left and needs to be that reframing and that new water flow that is needed.
Dr. Harold Hong: Mm-hmm. Uh, question for you, NA, Natasha. So I work with a lot of families and I could say the time to get help was probably a year ago. And what are some things that families could know about? And say, Hey, actually now is the time to go get help. Now is the time to do Aqua Call with Silver Barrel Coaching and see if we can, we can make a CH difference in our family.
Natasha Silver bell: Well, that's a beautiful call to take and I'm definitely here for that. So I'll set up a courtesy gym for anywhere up to an hour to really understand. I prefer to have both stakeholders. Usually that's a mom and dad. It could be a care provider, it could be a trust and estates attorney, could be a, uh, you know, a financial wealth manager.
Natasha Silver bell: And so there are many different people who are really important to shift [00:06:00] the family system and the ethos of what hasn't worked to what can work. 
Dr. Harold Hong: Well, I have have clients and they'll say, oh, you know, Samuel drinks, but it's always been like this. Um, you know, why do, why make a change? Now, I'm not sure, or sure he got a D u I, but he got a D UI five years ago.
Dr. Harold Hong: Like, why, why do we need to do something big right now? Sure. So if I would, so what are some things that I think people just need to get calibrated on reality. Like, actually this is okay. This is not okay. Um, but your, your rules about what's okay are a little bit flipped around and, uh, you know, what are some common things you've seen people do that they accept that's actually not acceptable?
Natasha Silver bell: So while I'll ask them, let's just say that the person calling me's name is Amy. And I'll say to Amy, who's a mother of a 25 year old, and we're speaking. So there's, there's some information right there. We're connecting and why are we connecting? Why me? Why this level of support [00:07:00] is even a curiosity. And I wanna explore that curiosity with them and understand what brings them peace at night.
Natasha Silver bell: And what's disrupting their piece and let's explore mm-hmm. Is that piece not there. And that's really for them to come to terms with. And that's where we will begin a much more gentle, lighter touch approach of parent coaching one-on-one where we're there in real time. We are not clinicians, although many of our, our coaches are clinician trained and we have clinical training for them, but we're.
Natasha Silver bell: Really helping motivate the parents to understand what it is they want for their family system when they need it. So we're not gonna diagnose and treat, we're gonna take the present moment, and that means responsive in the day, in the hour of need. And that's the difference between coaching versus a therapeutic support.
Natasha Silver bell: Mm-hmm. Which we do wanna work with their therapists. We then hopefully bring in that more robust approach and who are the people in their lives that they are listening to and benefiting from. Who do, maybe they have had a, [00:08:00] a great support system, but it's not yielding what they want anymore, hence, mm-hmm.
Natasha Silver bell: The disruption and peace. Mm-hmm. And how then we can create a new ethos so we can find that, that flow of peace. Yeah. 
Dr. Harold Hong: I love that question that you po that, what, what do you or do you not have peace about? Because I think all too common, people think the, the time for intervention is when the house is on fire.
Dr. Harold Hong: Like when there's a three alarm fire blazing away. But the bar for getting help is actually much, much sooner than that. It's do you have peace or 
Natasha Silver bell: not? Many people wait for the bottom and there's always a trap door in the bottom and right. Talking about how we can help people, you know, and, and obviously in a 12 step program, there's a whole chapter in the back talking about the higher bottom and the edited versions for relevant now.
Natasha Silver bell: Just like, you know, the King James version, version of the Bible is not relevant now, you know? Mm-hmm. I like seeing different interpretations of language that's relevant now to understand where people are [00:09:00] for movements of change, 
Dr. Harold Hong: I. Yep. 
Graham Doerge: Love it. So can we, can we go back a little bit and talk about your treatment without walls?
Graham Doerge: Um, and I, um, you know, want to elaborate on that a little bit cuz it's very unique to what you guys do and, uh, and we actually worked on a case, uh, you know, not too long ago together, uh, and, and went very well. And, um, I just think that. You know, sharing with families, you know, that there are kind of other alternatives, other options, other resources out there that are a little outside the box.
Graham Doerge: Um, but, but, you know, have great results, um, is, is really helpful. 
Natasha Silver bell: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you for that. Um, yeah. First of all, I just wanna commend you guys and what you've created and what you have put together because having a sophisticated detox facility is a part of the Rehab Without Walls because we don't, there are many companies out there that.
Natasha Silver bell: Do in-home detoxes. I thank a stabilization for that very sensitive time where people are changing their whole body chemistry, their mindset, so that we can be set up [00:10:00] well when we go back into the in-home model is really important for that transition piece. Um mm-hmm. When I say rehab without walls, it really does mean living life on life's terms where that family system is.
Natasha Silver bell: So oftentimes we're working with young adults that are at college and we're living off campus close by and coming and supporting them in their daily. Routine of showing up to class on time. Really those life skill developments and creating new social structures so that they can learn how to stay with their life goals.
Natasha Silver bell: Whether that is abstinence or it's just getting to class on time, getting homework done, learning how to cook, driving, living on a budget. Those are the, you know, that. Probably 18 to 25 year old age group that we're really known for quite well. And those, those programs really go out around nine months to a year because the truth is I don't wanna be in business.
Natasha Silver bell: Uh, again, I wanna do a one one. And your done shop really with [00:11:00] a family system. And usually with a really sophisticated good detox program and then setting up, um, a navigation plan throughout the year. Um, we find that when you hit one year of continuous setting of life goals, usually abstinence, but I don't judge anybody's family system.
Natasha Silver bell: We've done other pathways. Um, when the whole family system is engaged, we have a primary family therapist. You know, each parent has their own support system, whether it's a parent coach or. A therapist and there's an overseeing psychiatrist that's managing the medical treatment and there's a primary therapist that's working with the loved one.
Natasha Silver bell: Then we're coordinating that cares as a vessel that's holding all those um, professionals together. And we do a lot with eating disorders as well. So there's been very complicated teams, but when it's run well, It's really effort. This, I mean, look at, look at all the systems out there in the world that are run well and do it with excellence.
Natasha Silver bell: And then there's ones that, it's just a matter of clear [00:12:00] communication and effective, um, philosophical approach. 
Graham Doerge: Yeah. And, and that's, and I think is the biggest barrier for a lot of people. Obviously, you know, not everybody can afford something like that, you know, a year long kind of program. But obviously if you are able to then, um, what a great alternative.
Graham Doerge: I, I, I just think about kind of, I always think about my story too, right? And I was in college and was just, A disaster. And I could have really utilized something like that, um, that, that extra support, you know, getting to, getting into class and, and doing all that. But, um, and I think that at that point, my family, you know, college was more important, right?
Graham Doerge: They just wanted to get me through school, get me through school, because that's kind of what, I guess, looked good to the outside world, right? Mm-hmm. So, 
Natasha Silver bell: um, Exactly. Just have a, if you just have your degree and get a job, you'll be fine. Which exactly red herring if you 
Graham Doerge: will. A hundred percent. So, you know, I think that obviously, you know, those [00:13:00] families that just, um, they are not willing to put their, their child or their son or, uh, loved one into a program for any period of time.
Graham Doerge: I mean, doing something like that is, is really unique. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you, Becky, you any questions? 
Dr. Harold Hong: Yeah. Um, I'm just, when you're talking about, uh, coaching versus therapy, um, what are some, what are some things that would make a coach a great fit for 
Natasha Silver bell: a family? Um, Oh, what a great question. It ha, I'm, I'm really a, a very sophisticated matchmaker and so that's why I love my courtesy zooms on the front end of every case, which I do have the luxury of doing and being a part of putting those teams together, understanding what is the family's journey been like, what are their struggles?
Natasha Silver bell: What are they looking to change and what are their likes and dislikes? Their mannerisms, their gestures, their passions, their hobbies, their talents, their, where were they born? What languages do they speak? And so you can, it's not always, oh, you're from the same country in the [00:14:00] same background and I'm gonna push you together.
Natasha Silver bell: That's not always the right match. It has to do with the head space of where they wanna go and what do they wanna accomplish with the family. So matching a parent with a certain parent is really strategic, um, matching the loved one. Uh, oftentimes there are two coaches on teams that we rotate. Um, and so we just wanna make sure that we're putting together the right type of energy to create that connection.
Dr. Harold Hong: Mm-hmm. I think that's so key. Uh, to, to really make it bespoke, uh, to the client and their unique situation. Um, and a lot of times I see this idea that, uh, like here's our mechanism, like here's our program. Like everyone enters, everyone proceeds, and everyone comes out better on the other end. Mm-hmm. Um, but that's like part of our assessment approach has been to take a very detailed assessment of what does the current state look like.
Dr. Harold Hong: Because you know, [00:15:00] if you want to get to Washington, DC and you're in New York, your path is gonna look one way. But if you're coming from Austin, Texas, it's gonna be a very different pathway. Mm-hmm. I think there, there's like an app metaphor to what recovery looks like for individuals and the families that are caring for them.
Dr. Harold Hong: And so I think the, the silver ball coaching approach that's. Ultra bespoke and like really sensitive to, uh, the unique characteristics of the family. Mm-hmm. Uh, what are their strengths? What are their development goals? Um, what are their preferences? Uh, what, what types of energies do they really thrive in?
Dr. Harold Hong: I think that's like a great recipe for success. And, you know, just a big part of the reason why we love working with you. 
Natasha Silver bell: Thank you. I, I will, uh, dovetail on that because we are partnering with the family, not so much the clinicians. That's my wheelhouse to really research the best in class clinicians around the world and find out who I can partner with whom and what countries.
Natasha Silver bell: And so when we really are partnering with the families, I'm not here to replace them, [00:16:00] we are going to be making sure this family system finds a new way of flowing so that they don't need us and that detailed approach. You know, Joanna was just reminding me, she's our creative director, she's brilliant. Um, that I was trained by a forensic psychologist, Dr.
Natasha Silver bell: Marvin Aronson in New York City for many years. The approach that we have today is still the same approach that he taught us. What does that mean? So it's a level of accurate reporting and diligence. Mm-hmm. So we have a very sophisticated portal that we putting our realtime notes into that the clinical team can choose to engage and read and then defer and shift their treatment based on what they're reading.
Natasha Silver bell: So manners. Gestures, reactions? How did that person come home? Um, so it's, it may sound invasive, but it's actually really fruitful and beneficial for this in-home approach to work. If you're in a hospital, the, the doctors are doing rounds with the nurses, there's portals, there's notes. Everybody has to take their notes.
Natasha Silver bell: They have to, or you are not doing your job. [00:17:00] Mm-hmm. So why isn't that level of vigilance being done? Um, at least I don't know what other people are doing, but I've, I've had a lot of people say I've never, I've never seen such. Diligence before. Hmm. 
Graham Doerge: Yeah. No, and, and I mean, I think that that's everything, right?
Graham Doerge: Is, um, and, and that's kind of my, my feeling about treatment really in general nowadays is, is that really, uh, in order to do really excellent treatment, you've gotta have that kind of smaller, uh, more boutique. Feel, you know, I, I just feel like, you know, um, you know, again, going back to like the, the bespoke and, and individual individualization, I mean, so every client that kind of comes to us, you know, Dr.
Graham Doerge: Hong, as you kind of explained, or, you know, you're meeting with them to do a very detailed assessment and, and everybody's treatment plan is gonna look a little bit different, which is not really the case at most places, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, you know, there's in, in a lot of places it's just kind of, you know, running you through the process and this is how we do things and it's, and it's kind of, um, a cookie cutter, [00:18:00] you know, scenario.
Graham Doerge: Um, so, uh, I do think that, you know, we need to look, look towards those really small programs for, for that type of work. Um, and you know, we talked a little bit yesterday, uh, about a topic, uh, that I'd love to get into cuz I know you're very passionate about it. Um, but really the condition of the heart. Um, and you know, I'd love for you to kind of, uh, elaborate on that and what that means to you and, um, and, and talk about that a little bit.
Natasha Silver bell: Thank you so much for that assist. I'm, yeah. Someone who doesn't shy away from the conversation about a sense of where do you get your source. Some people call it God, I'm a Christian and I'm not afraid to say that. And I think it's, um, something that isn't talked about enough is that we are really helping heal the family system and their hearts.
Natasha Silver bell: And when I really look through all the externals, I don't care how someone comes to me and presents to me because what I know about the human condition, That we all want healing and we want [00:19:00] connection, and we wanna be understood, and we wanna be loved. Now, where's that boundary between enabling and supporting real continuity of care shifts and change That lies in the discernment of the moment, and we can't know that and until we're there.
Natasha Silver bell: And so really pausing and waiting without judgment to assess and move through with an open heart, one heart to another human to human. How can I be of service and help you? I love 
Graham Doerge: that. It's beautiful. 
Dr. Harold Hong: Mm-hmm. You can say more about, uh, what the concept of, like the condition of the heart means, means to you and how that is something of a compass in navigating your work with your clients.
Natasha Silver bell: Well, that's really well said. And being a medical doctor, I mean, I'm not that well studied in, in medicine, but I've, I've sat in thousands of really renowned psychiatrists office and listened to how they work and there is a, with the best in the world, I'd say there is a, there is a gentle, compassionate touch with all [00:20:00] that medical excellence that they are really tapping into that human condition.
Natasha Silver bell: And so I'm sure that all the doctors that I've worked with would, would talk about, you know, the condition of the heart, what makes a healthy heart and all of that. But really it's that compassion piece I think that can, if, if one heart, let's say if I'm sitting down with someone, my heart is open and full of compassion for that suffering human being, how can I be so of service to help them heal?
Natasha Silver bell: And when someone is met with nothing but that, that's what you get back, you get the openings of mm-hmm. You get the beginning of those moments of grace where they feel seen and heard, where they're not going to be put aside or judged or I've got my checklist out. You know, I usually, uh, I'm not sitting there taking a lot of notes myself, but, um, it is really an important to make them feel seen and heard so that they can feel whole and how they bring their family system that's been suffering to you.
Graham Doerge: Which is so [00:21:00] unique in today's age, right? We never stop and connect with people. It really has become so impossible. There's just so much information coming at us all day, every day, so many responsibilities. Kids, family, all that. And, uh, I just think that that's such an important piece to, to really just stop with these families, uh, be in the moment.
Graham Doerge: And, and obviously, you know, as you said, connect with 'em, right? I mean, this is, this is really heart-centered work, uh, that we're doing and mm-hmm. It's gotta kind of start there. I will. Absolutely. 
Natasha Silver bell: I'll Oh, go ahead. 
Dr. Harold Hong: Uh, uh, just as you were talking with us, it, I, I was getting a sense of what it would be like to be in the room, uh, if you're in a coaching session or if you're hosting an intervention conversation.
Dr. Harold Hong: Um, and it just strikes me as being so different in a tremendously better way than what, what's kind of status quo, because I mean, in healthcare there's, there's so much of this idea of like, there's a practice guideline, there's the right way. To do things, here's the [00:22:00] right thing, here's the wrong thing.
Dr. Harold Hong: And everything just comes down to like being correct or incorrect, like being mm-hmm. On track with the practice guidelines that have been established for like a population, but not necessarily for you. And that has a lot to do with the underlying issues of this black and white thinking that really feeds addiction and emotional pain.
Dr. Harold Hong: Yeah. And so I think like this, this idea that. Let's come to this conversation by first reflecting on how are we feeling in our heart about ourselves? Like, how are we feeling about the person we're focusing on for the intervention? And let's discern our motivation, or like, let's discern like what's actually restorative for this person.
Dr. Harold Hong: Mm-hmm. Um, that's a radically different approach than, yeah. Um, traditional clinical care. It's delivered these days. So that is such a gift for the families that you're working with. [00:23:00] 
Natasha Silver bell: Thank you. Thank you so much for sa for sharing that. And it is, it is a real, um, an honor and a grace to sit down with a family and really see them without the past and be in the present moment, because that's the only time that change can occur is in the present.
Natasha Silver bell: And helping them harness their power within that moment. And what that does is it, it creates these openings to talk about God. To talk about there. Maybe, you know, there's a lot of recovering Catholics, and I'm a recovering Christian too. I ran from my up my dogmatic upbringing and went on my prodigal son journey and came back with my own seeking and my own investigation.
Natasha Silver bell: I love to quote Rumi, where what you seek is seeking you. So that that famous quote by Rumi, what you seek is seeking you and just creating that spark of curiosity with them to reinvestigate. Not be so angry and hurt by the may th by maybe the way they were raised, and that [00:24:00] maybe there might be something out there that can really help assist them in their healing journey.
Natasha Silver bell: Because most families that I work with that come to us have lost their faith. They've lost, mm-hmm. Any connection to a source and understanding of a higher power. They feel so wounded and, and hurt by it, and very gently, very gently. We tap into those conversations when they're ready to hear that message.
Natasha Silver bell: Uh, recently with my, my worldly, um, Travels. I've come across the last few years of an incredible young man named Neo Hart and he is what they would call an alchemist years ago. That was new for me to understand what alchemy is and what is that approach. And it's very non-threatening. It's very relevant now, I think alchemy, um, is something that.
Natasha Silver bell: Can be a very gentle approach to people to be curious. And Nio, what I really appreciate about him is he created something, uh, 20 years of his life's work. Um, he studied in Japan and, and all over the [00:25:00] world and he created a deck of cards. They're not, uh, fortune telling. I'm not somebody who believes in listening to others.
Natasha Silver bell: Tell me my future. I'm very much, uh, wanna empower the person that they can create their own future. Mm-hmm. But he created a deck of cards that have words on it that he defined over many, many years to, to produce this. And they're out now. And, um, we use them with our clients now. And for example, one of the cards would be Soar.
Natasha Silver bell: The definition of sword and what does that mean and what does that mean to that person? And then going into his definition. So his definition is very robust and gentle and kind. But for me to share with you what the, the word sword means is sword of the tongue. And I think we forget how powerful our words are and how they're connected to our.
Natasha Silver bell: And that mind heart connection is so powerful. I used to follow and still do. He's since passed away an um, evangelical pastor who was an atheist from India, [00:26:00] named Dr. Revy Zacharia, and his headquarters were in Atlanta. Um, he um, he has created a big center in following. He recently just passed away a few years ago.
Natasha Silver bell: And he would go debate college students. And um, and he would always say the most challenging connection, the most difficult connection for every living human being is the heart mind connection. Mm-hmm. How can we. Heart mind connection to be in with the integrity of the person we are, were to become, or who we haven't been, and how we can nurture that inner child.
Natasha Silver bell: A lot of the clinicians do that inner child work. How do we bring that suffering child out to the light without doing it at a pace that's going to, let's say, backtrack us? So it's a very gentle approach. Um, yeah. So. 
Graham Doerge: And, you know, talking about that, the, the mind heart connection, obviously that takes practice, right?
Graham Doerge: And there are things that we need to be doing to, um, you know, to make that [00:27:00] connection stronger. Uh, and, and so what are some of those things that you practice in, in kind of your daily routine? Or is it meditation? Is it, you know, some sort of somatic therapy? Um, and what, what do you do on that? 
Natasha Silver bell: So currently today?
Natasha Silver bell: Um, yeah. What my practice is is, you know, some people call it in the 12 steps, that constant contact with God. That's what I'm aspiring to throughout my day. How can I remain in the divine connection without being weird or crazy or that I'm always on a pink cloud or something. That's not reality. Um, I am very much grounded in the present moment and I am very comfortable there because I.
Natasha Silver bell: That's the only time I can tap into that conscious contact ways in which I help myself do that. Um, currently is I do read a lot of scripture. I like reading in the amplified version, it has the aaic, the Hebrew, and the Greek translations of each word. So I can do a deep investigation of, of, of something.
Natasha Silver bell: And I wanna share with you, uh, a passage. Yeah. And it has to do with [00:28:00] finding new waters. Mm-hmm. And so, mm-hmm. Hm, I thought I would give this to you. It's comes from the Book of John, and I'm gonna find it here one second. From the book of John and, um, whosoever believes in me, as the scripture has said, streams of Living water will flow within him.
Natasha Silver bell: By this, he meant the spirit. Those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time, the spirit had not been given since Jesus had not yet been glorified, and I think Christ isn't with us in the physical world anymore, but he lives within us. That's what Union is all about and understanding within.
Natasha Silver bell: It's ev every human we are in Christ's image, in God's image, and it's if we can get past the dogma and the anger and the hurt and the suffering of what religion, organized religion has done, and there's a lot of good things organized religion has done, but really has to do with that condition of the [00:29:00] heart.
Natasha Silver bell: That's what Christ came to do is build a relationship with your heart. And that's up to you and him if you wanna use that vessel. And Christ isn't here to save. Every single soul isn't going to accept that, and that's okay too, but find something that works for you. And that's where the alchemy creates a beautiful opening with these cards.
Natasha Silver bell: Because if I could read and maybe we'll send them to you later. Uh, love that. Really beautiful. Really. I'll send you a deck as, as a courtesy and you can Google and research. Um, he's so gentle and kind and. And not being, I think the most important piece in our work and what I identified with Neo in his work.
Natasha Silver bell: Although he's not a Christian, I really honor and respect, I have a reverence towards his work and his journey because he's not attached to the outcome. And I think that's probably the most important piece in our work and certainly in S B C, is that all we can do is create the space for the healing and the awareness and the family, and then put those beautiful practitioners in [00:30:00] place and hold them accountable.
Natasha Silver bell: But we're not attached to that outcome. That family has a right for their journey and their path have. 
Graham Doerge: Wow. That's 
Dr. Harold Hong: really powerful. Mm-hmm. How, how do you work with families that maybe don't feel. As in touch with your spirituality as you feel in touch with your spirituality? We don't, I, I think that this is so key.
Natasha Silver bell: We don't send them, it's foremost. 
Dr. Harold Hong: You don't send them the what? The podcast. Podcast. 
Natasha Silver bell: Um, I'm just not, I don't live in, uh, fear anymore of what people will think of me and my relationship with Christ, but I certainly don't lead with it. I can read someone's, as soon as they even send me an email about how open they are.
Natasha Silver bell: To the healing journey. And there are many cases where I've never, they never know my, my relationship with Christ. They don't need to to heal. It's not about me. And so I just wanna create the vessel of compassion [00:31:00] and awareness and that willingness. People say, oh, you can't help somebody who's not willing.
Natasha Silver bell: Yes you can. Oh yes, you can. You can create willingness. It doesn't mean force. That's where you begin with those stakeholders. It's slow intervening. Years and years ago, there was a woman in New York City, um, and you've been to the SBC Townhouse Graham, you know, um, and she was there leading a workshop. Her name was Jam Grossi, and she's still treating people up in, uh, Connecticut.
Natasha Silver bell: She's fantastic. Mm-hmm. And she watched what I was doing. This was about eight years ago, and she watched what I was doing with this community of young men, and she was, Under trying to understand my approach to how they all became, you know, in their sober journey together and created community. But beyond that, she says, what you're doing are interventions?
Natasha Silver bell: I said, no, I'm not a trained interventionist. She goes, Natasha, it's a compliment what you're doing in intervening in these people's lives at a pace that is sustainable and palatable. Mm-hmm. And that's that temperature of [00:32:00] creating willingness. If someone is showing up, I've had other people outside of our space say, how do you work with addicts and alcoholics and people who are, you know, so sick mentally.
Natasha Silver bell: I know they lie to you all the time, and I just look at them with so much compassion and I'll say, they're not lying to me. I'm not taking on their, their suffering in that capacity. I am. Making sure they're feeding off of what I'm offering them instead of me taking on their, their, their burdens is what they are, but it's, you know, that mm-hmm.
Natasha Silver bell: That scripture, the yoke is easy and the burden's light. It really is. Yeah. You know, and if you can be that essence of hope and healing for them, all their worries and their concerns eventually fade away and you're, you really are creating a space of, of them to want to get better. Right. Mm-hmm. 
Dr. Harold Hong: And as I'm listening to you, Natasha, I'm, I'm just realizing a new thing about advice that I would give to [00:33:00] clients or family members that are looking for help is what's your sense of their heart?
Dr. Harold Hong: Uh, because there are people who have a hard heart that, that are in the business, that are, that are trying to work with clients. And I think those relationships, the progress is, is very difficult, if not sometimes. No movement or even backwards movement. Um, but we all, we've all had those experiences where we're working with people who have, there's something unique about them.
Dr. Harold Hong: Like there, there's a tenderness, there's a wisdom. Mm-hmm. There's a deep spiritual connection and it's, you feel it, it's not based on what they're saying, but you can see it in their actions. You can see it in their tone. How they connect with people. And I think part of recovery in rehab is for people who have hard hearts.
Dr. Harold Hong: It's to see what life is like for people who have wise and healthy hearts. Right. Amen. But un, until you see it, it's hard to imagine what it [00:34:00] would look like. Yeah. And even more difficult to make that transition 
Natasha Silver bell: if, if I may. And I think therein lies such an important PA part, especially to our industry because we are in the healing industry.
Natasha Silver bell: We're in the behavioral space of mind body healing and helping people find their path without judgment. So I'll, I'm engaged to a very successful, um, Columbia or, um, Cornell and Harvard Business School graduate who's an amazing man in my life. And he'll always say to me over my years, we've been together over a decade, he's watched my company grow and he's like, How is it that you are able to not only manage people who are really struggling and family systems, but you're managing people?
Natasha Silver bell: Cuz everyone in my practice is. Is in recovery too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And they're healing on their journey and it's a lot of, a lot of healing and wounds that are constantly maybe needing to be [00:35:00] tended to. So I wanna make sure that all of the coaches and the clinicians that are working. Within the S B C system have their own governance and care and we offer supervision and we help make sure that they're doing their work so they can give that beautiful offering to someone else.
Natasha Silver bell: Cuz you can't give away what you don't have. And I think that speaks right to your point, is the condition of the provider's heart. And that's exactly what I'm talking about. Yes. I'm helping them pay attention to their own heart and helping, but you can't tap into that if your heart isn't in a healthy space that is creating mm-hmm.
Natasha Silver bell: That healing process. 
Graham Doerge: I mean, that's so on the money and, and it's something that we talk about on, on the regular, uh, here just because, you know, first and foremost for me, having a really healthy culture, um, is the most important thing. And that kind of starts with our staff, right? Taking care of our staff first and foremost, making sure, as you said, probably 75% of our staff is in recovery.
Graham Doerge: So, you [00:36:00] know, and they're getting triggered and they're, you know, listen, even if you're six, eight years in recovery, you know, things are still gonna come up and you're gonna have struggles and you're gonna have difficulties. And, um, and we, you know, that work-life balance is, is such a, uh, essential part of this process, but also continuing the work.
Graham Doerge: Right. And not, and not, I think what we see so much is that people stop doing work on themselves and, uh, that's right. And get a little bit crispy. 
Dr. Harold Hong: Mm-hmm. 
Natasha Silver bell: Word it is crispy. And I think it's so important because when we're working with a family system, whoever is the primary caring vessel, whether it's the case manager, the coach, the therapist, the detox center, is that we're always asking the family system and the parents, what can they do?
Natasha Silver bell: To change the ethos because it really does start in a parenting, and I am not saying as a mother of three, I am not saying the parents are a problem. There is gen genetic trauma that's being diagnosed and uncovered these days. I'm working with really, uh, a really great [00:37:00] psychiatrist in the United Kingdom named Dr.
Natasha Silver bell: Wayne Campers. He's a trauma and pain management specialist, and he does many of, there's genetic testing that's really important, but understanding generational trauma. And understanding bloodlines and understanding that, hold on a second. Some of your kids can turn out like everything seems fine and they're checking off all the boxes and they're skipping to school, and your other child is not getting out of bed.
Natasha Silver bell: What, what am I doing as a parent that can be better? So having that space where the parents don't feel that they've done something wrong and asking them to go what neo calls is a deeper intelligence of themselves. Because parents, although maybe didn't cause the trauma, they can help shift that new that, as you would say, finding new waters so that they don't have to live in that old trauma.
Natasha Silver bell: And I think that's the trickiest part. The word crispy just triggered me to think of it. Grams. I just wanna, that's the heaviest lifting is with the parents because no parent wants to be told that they screwed [00:38:00] up and they didn't. They didn't. But they have an opportunity to find something new now. Yep.
Graham Doerge: Yeah. Yeah. And we're fortunate enough that, you know, hopefully those, you know, that generational trauma or wounds, um, you know, us getting into recovery is, is gonna stop that pattern. Right? Um, and that's the hope. That's, you know, that we are passing this down to our children and we can, you know, we can really do some, some great, uh, change.
Graham Doerge: Um, you know, I have three daughters myself, and, you know, obviously, you know, cards are probably stacked against us. That one of them is gonna have an issue, right. My wife's in recovery, I'm in recovery. So, um, but you know, I, I do think it's, it's really interesting too, when we sit down, Dr. Hong actually does a, uh, a full genogram with all of our assessment clients, and it's just so informative.
Graham Doerge: You know, he sits with them for an hour and a half and, and, you know, does it all by hand and for them to see the patterns and typically it kind of starts with. No, my childhood was great. I, you know, I had everything that I could have ever [00:39:00] wanted, and things were great, mom and dad were great, yada, yada, yada.
Graham Doerge: And then you start digging into it and it's like maybe things weren't as rosy as I painted them to be. Mm-hmm. And seeing it in black and black and white is really powerful, I think. Right? 
Natasha Silver bell: It is. And I'm so glad you do that, Dr. Hong. You know, and also understanding with parents and loved ones that they weren't supposed to see it then, because they wouldn't have been able to cope with it and giving them some grace.
Natasha Silver bell: How they can cope with it going forward and relieving that burden for the parents. You know, that's probably the bulk of our work is parents. 
Dr. Harold Hong: Yeah. Yeah. I, I try and begin the sessions by saying we're, we're entering a, a special space where there's no judgment and there's no shame. We are just trying to be real.
Dr. Harold Hong: And then we can go in and say, um, yes, uh, mom. Spine was in bed in depression for two years. But we can say that [00:40:00] without necessarily anger or resentment. We can just put it on the paper. And we use this huge sheet of paper and we, we really spread it out. And, and when we can say that without, uh, anger or resentment, then we open ourselves up to this new ability to see our history in a new way.
Dr. Harold Hong: So we just opened, we just had a assessment client come through and, you know, it's amazing how the pattern is so common. Uh, lots of addiction, lots of self-destructive behaviors, and that leads them to come into the facility, uh, eye open with this very broad question, like what was it like to grow up in your home?
Dr. Harold Hong: And it's usually the first answer is great. Perfect, wonderful. And, um, and then I say, okay, well tell me more about this relationship. Tell me more about that relationship. And then I'll, I just, I curious like, oh, that's interesting. You know, so mom, mom wasn't around and the kids, you [00:41:00] guys bought your groceries, you guys did your own cooking, and like, what was that like?
Dr. Harold Hong: And. And then it, and then they start to remember more and more things. And then usually in each session there's this moment of stunned silent reflection as, as they're begin to rethink their history and they see things differently. And we, we tie it back to this, this earlier work where we say like, how do you relate to yourself?
Dr. Harold Hong: And they, they see, oh, I relate to myself the way my parents relate to me. And then, oh, my parents treated me that way cuz that's how their parents treated them. And, and they're stunned. And then, and then I, I draw a circle around, usually they're their younger people and I draw a circle around them and their spouse or their young children, their family system.
Dr. Harold Hong: And, and then they see that they have this ability to create, uh, a new line. Like a new way of, of, of a new [00:42:00] legacy, of inheritance, uh, for their generations to come. Well said. So that's, that's really an, an amazing experience. But I think it, to me, it really does feel like a, a sacred moment, right? It like there's something special happening.
Dr. Harold Hong: There's some type of. Truth telling and restoration of the condition of the heart. In that 
Natasha Silver bell: moment, you are breaking ancestral trauma, ancestral generation. People will talk about. Dr. Aronson would talk a lot about the Holocaust survivors and what the genetic testing of Holocaust survivors and what would make them survive versus.
Natasha Silver bell: That didn't, and you know, what was that about and how could some just go on and have a normal life after that and others couldn't. And understanding that and then how that manifests going forward and so on. But that's exactly what we're doing. We are talking about stopping centuries. And centuries.
Natasha Silver bell: Mm-hmm. Generational trauma and patterns, and it's not [00:43:00] all bad. And helping them understand that it's only through suffering, you know, you only can really see light, you know, through the darkness. You don't get light just because it's light. You have to have that contrast to understand. Mm-hmm. So it's just so important to reframe that like you just said, this is a beautiful moment.
Natasha Silver bell: Look, your mother had her own trauma that maybe she doesn't even know about and that's why she is the way she is and she can't even understand the way she is. But you can, you get to help but system heal without having to do your mother's work for her. And I think there's a, there's so much in that mother-daughter bond that we could spend many episodes on that is so important and vital.
Natasha Silver bell: And then we could talk about the relationship with the father and how important that is. And that I will bring it back to that spiritual component because a mother typically is one who brings the spirituality into the home, however, It is when a father hits his knees, that it's the most [00:44:00] powerful for the children to watch and emulate.
Natasha Silver bell: Mm-hmm. And when a father grace to a higher power, it is the most calming for a child. Yeah. 
Graham Doerge: Yeah. I love that. Well, you know, this has been a great time chatting with you, Natasha, and, and thank you so much for joining us today. Um, I did wanna say you can find these episodes on all streaming platforms. Um, uh, please visit, uh, Silverbell coaching@silverbellcoaching.com.
Graham Doerge: Um, mm-hmm. And, and finding newWaters@findingnewwaters.com. And thanks so much and we will see you next week.

Question 2

Show Notes

Accepted Answer

In this enlightening episode of the Finding New Waters podcast, Natasha Silver Bell, an addiction recovery coach, Graham Doerge, a recovery specialist, and Dr. Harold Hong, an addiction assessment expert, delve into the transformative journey of recovery from trauma and addiction. They engage in a powerful discussion on the role parents play in their children's recovery, the significance of acknowledging and addressing generational trauma, and the profound impact of establishing a non-judgmental therapeutic space.
Silver Bell brings to the forefront the need for compassion and understanding towards parents, emphasizing their crucial role in altering the trajectory of generational trauma. She prompts parents to dig deeper into their own histories and explore the origins of their trauma to bring about positive change.Doerge shares his personal journey as a father in recovery, asserting the importance of halting the cycle of generational trauma for the well-being of future generations. His personal narrative serves as a beacon of hope, demonstrating that recovery can indeed break the pattern.
Dr. Harold Hong demystifies his approach of using genograms with his patients, which helps them uncover patterns and understand their family histories that may have contributed to their struggles. He highlights his commitment to creating a non-judgmental environment for patients to freely express themselves and gain newfound self-understanding.
Join our host as he navigates these in-depth discussions, reaffirming the recurring theme of hope and transformation. Listen as they underline the potential of therapy to sever the ties of generational trauma, thus enabling patients to establish healthier relationships within their families and carve a path of wellness for future generations.
This podcast episode promises to deliver a wealth of insights into the recovery process. Remember, you can find Finding New Waters Podcast on all streaming platforms. Don't forget to visit the coaching websites mentioned for more resources and support.Stay tuned for the next episode for more enlightening discussions on the path to recovery.
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Mind, Body, Healing: Natasha Silver Bell on the Role of Spirituality in Recovery