Ryan Hanson

Ryan Hanson: [00:00:00] Helping individuals to become their own advocates, helping individuals to become more informed, uh, healthcare decision makers in a variety of ways, it, it, it has to be personal, like, like, good general information is nice, but, you know, most of us are smart enough, uh, Or egotistical enough that that that we can we can talk away logical information is you pointed out the second that somebody points out to me that if I have a drink later in the evening, I don't sleep as well.

Ryan Hanson: It's that simple. But but it's that important that it's that simple. That person can use their information. It's not just general information about alcohol later in the day. It could affect your sleep. It's when I have a drink or when, you know, in my case, when I need to, you know, the bowl of ice cream at nine p.

Ryan Hanson: m. I'm not going to sleep as well. It's obvious. But, you know, and [00:01:00] individuals, you know, again, in that example, it's It doesn't mean I'm not going to do it, but at least the next day, I'm not blaming it on something else. I can, I can have some accountability around it and I can make some decisions about what I'm going to do now in order to, to feel better in a more sustainable

Ryan Hanson: way.

Graham Doerge: Good afternoon. My name is Graham Durgie and I'm the founder and CEO of New Waters Recovery in Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome to our weekly podcast, Finding New Waters. Our goal in creating Finding New Waters is to provide a resource for families to help navigate the complexities of supporting a [00:02:00] loved one struggling with substance use or mental health.

Graham Doerge: When we find ourselves in crisis due to one of these issues, most people have no idea where to turn. We hope to shed some light onto what is often the darkest hour for many families. I'm joined here today by our medical director, Dr. Harold Hong, and Ryan Hansen, who is a founding partner at Trifecta.

Graham Doerge: Trifecta specializes in advanced consulting and therapeutic services for a discerning clientele. Ryan Hansen boasts an extensive 20 plus year background in behavioral healthcare, combining clinical expertise, research acumen, and organizational leadership. His commitment to authentic, compassionate communication has driven positive results within multiple organizations, enhancing team morale, productivity, and loyalty.

Graham Doerge: Ryan's therapeutic expertise is vast with a focus on sexual health, grief and loss, career development, addiction, mental health, and process driven disorders. His systematic approach takes into account the whole individual, offering a holistic pathway toward Toward healing and balance. His [00:03:00] clinical work has fueled his talent for innovative program development by harnessing creativity, data-driven decision making and best practices.

Graham Doerge: Ryan has built sustainable and profitable programs and startups, not-for-profit centers and large healthcare corporations. His solid business acumen extends to board management, state licensure, program accreditation, and facility oversight. Ryan, thank you for being here with us.

Ryan Hanson: Thank you for inviting me.

Ryan Hanson: It's great to be here. Of course.

Graham Doerge: Of course. We, uh, we go back, uh, many years, uh, back to my days back in Florida when you were at, uh, Karen treatment centers and, and I was at voyage. And, uh, it's just great to reconnect with you. We, we haven't seen each other or talked in, in quite a little while. So I'm very excited to.

Graham Doerge: Learn more about trifecta and for our listeners to learn a little bit more about what you guys are doing. So why don't we kind of start there and you can tell us, um, just a little bit about, you know, what trifecta is and, and kind of the work that you guys are doing right now.

Ryan Hanson: Yeah. Thank you. Uh, trifecta [00:04:00] was really designed, you know, uh, Myself, Liz Duffy and Randall Mullings, uh, have a number of years of experience in the behavioral health industry, and we designed Trifecta after seeing a whole bunch of things that were extremely helpful for clients and families and life changing.

Ryan Hanson: And also some components that didn't work on. And we really wanted to figure out the, the, why didn't it work? What, what was missing? What was misapplied? What could have been done better? Um, we all take it very personally about how a client or a family, uh, how they do, uh, you know, what, whether their lives get better.

Ryan Hanson: Um, and so. The idea behind trifecta was always let's tailor it to each person and really make sure that we understand what they need, what blind [00:05:00] spots are present, working with the entire system and using measurable strategies throughout the course of our time with someone to make sure that what we're doing is having the effect that the client and the family have have asked Asked to have help with and that's that's what trifecta was founded on.

Ryan Hanson: Yeah,

Graham Doerge: and I think that's so Important especially right now in in kind of you know As the world that we're in and the clients that we're seeing on a daily basis these days I feel are more complex than ever, right? We're just dealing with way more variables now you know going down to kind of social media and all the kind of aspects of that and Um, you know, uh, a lot of very, very complex mental health issues.

Graham Doerge: And, and I think that you're a hundred percent on the, on the button, right? And, you know, we've got to be individualizing our care like this, this model of kind of, uh, I call it kind of crackerjack treatment where, you know, [00:06:00] this, you know, one size fits all, you know, treatment is just doesn't work for, for the stuff that we're seeing these days, you know?

Graham Doerge: Um, so, so important to, to highlight that and, and kind of how you guys. Manage that.

Dr. Harold Hong: Yeah. I'm curious to hear more about what are some stories of clients that have sought out your services? Like, what are some of the stories that motivate them to engage with Trifecta? Uh, in the background, my question is, we have a lot of We see many people who don't know they need help, uh, until someone really puts it in front of their face through an intervention of some kind and then they come in and then, you know, thankfully they feel grateful that someone put that issue in front of them.

Dr. Harold Hong: Uh, so I'm always curious about to hear these stories of people who didn't really know they needed help or. Realized they needed help. But what was that insight that connected them with a place like

Ryan Hanson: trifecta? Well, um, [00:07:00] the, the relationships that we've spent, you know, 20 plus years developing, um, we don't advertise our services.

Ryan Hanson: So everyone who gets to us is a referral from someone we already know. Um, and that. That kind of has set the stage for, you know, is that, you know, a reputable assessment program that says, look, here's what we've found out. This isn't our wheelhouse. Can you help? Or will you help? Um, would this be a good fit?

Ryan Hanson: Right? Those are the types of introductions that we, we typically, uh, have at the beginning, but the clients that are coming to us are coming to us for a variety of reasons, right? So, um, Um, Individuals who are struggling with substance use and mental health, um, whether it's themselves, whether it's their, their referring to therapist, a friend, a wealth manager, [00:08:00] uh, an agent, um, you know, someone within their system.

Ryan Hanson: Is trying to, you know, to encourage change and, and, you know, as we all know, individuals can be in varying stages of openness to that process. And so those clients that they, they get to us and, and many times it's the identified individual who has the problem. Right? And as we start working with the whole system, and that's really our approach, we're a systemic approach.

Ryan Hanson: We don't. We don't generally want to, uh, focus only on one component. Um, and so that allows us then to, to get into, uh, family work and relationships and business, business partnerships and, uh, financial health and medical health and, and, and really start incorporating all the pieces of, of who someone is, uh, and what matters to [00:09:00] them.

Ryan Hanson: Um, so, you know, we have, you know, we've worked with. High profile individuals, and we've worked with family members, and we've worked with a whole bunch of people that nobody would have ever heard of. They're wonderful people. And, and, and all of them are coming on some level, because of pressure. There's a pressure that either internally, externally, or both is really pushing.

Ryan Hanson: On them to do something different in their life, and they may be incredibly willing to to tackle what we would identify as as the, you know, the, uh, the primary concern and sometimes they're not. And regardless, because we're working with the system, we can start providing tools and resources. Uh, to hopefully move, move the individual in the system itself toward, uh, a healthier level of functioning and, uh, and, and, [00:10:00] and more productivity and more happiness.

Ryan Hanson: Yeah.

Graham Doerge: And I kind of think of you guys as kind of, as the, uh, like crisis intervention team, right. And you're coming in on, you know, at the front end when the family is. Blowing up and, you know, kind of keeping it all together and, and, you know, it's unfortunate, but most people have no clue what to do when they're faced with this.

Graham Doerge: Right. And, you know, we've talked about this many times on the pod before, but it's, you know, the dreaded people start Googling things and, you know, looking for information online and you can really never know what's what or who, you know, what program is a good one. Um, so, you know, I think having a team like you guys who are so entrenched and have been doing this for so long to really say like, listen.

Graham Doerge: We've got it. We're going to, we're going to help you guys walk this path. We know all the right programs for different specialties and all that. And, and then, you know, when you get the client to, you know, whichever program is, is a good fit for them, you continue to work with the family component and kind of handle and manage [00:11:00] that, which is such a big help to us as a program, right.

Graham Doerge: To, you know, cause families that can be a lot of times a huge, uh, part of the, of the core issue, right. And, and to have like. To have a little bit of space there while the identified patient is in treatment is really an important piece, until they're ready to do that family work, right?

Ryan Hanson: So I would agree with that wholeheartedly. Graham, it, it, what's, what's important to all of us. It's connection. It's, it's feeling loved and loving others and, and, and, you know, being spiritually connected and emotionally connected and physically connected and, and families. And, and my, my career has been about working with families.

Ryan Hanson: I fell into it. Um, but it has been, um, And guided everything that I've ever done. So the families, many [00:12:00] programs tend to view them as the wild card or the X factor and they're not quite sure what to do with them. And we approach it from the lens of that's probably the most important component of someone's approach to wellness is.

Ryan Hanson: They don't want to be left behind by their family, and they don't want to have to leave their family behind in order to be well. So everyone in the system deserves a chance. Yeah.

Graham Doerge: Agreed.

Dr. Harold Hong: What are some ways that you get the family engaged? Because in my experience, many family members will say like, I'm, I'm fine.

Dr. Harold Hong: Right. It's my husband or it's my partner. It's my child. They're the one that needs the help. Why are you looking

Ryan Hanson: at me? Yeah. Yes. Everything in our, everything in our home would be fantastic if this one thing changed. Right. And, and on some level, they're correct in the sense that that thing is [00:13:00] causing problems.

Ryan Hanson: Um, but it normally only takes about half a conversation to ask a family member what it is. Would you have been doing with all of your energy that's gone to this one problem? Yeah. What would you have been doing with all that energy for the last year, five years, 10 years, however long it's been going on.

Ryan Hanson: And most of the time a door opens into, yeah, I, I, I quit my job 10 years ago. To pick up the slack, or I had to work two jobs to pick up the slack, or I quit singing, or I quit, you know, and almost everyone gets there quickly to, yeah, this is what I would have been doing. And that's normally the entry point to, okay, well, then it's not about saying that you're, you're sick.

Ryan Hanson: It's about saying. That you've experienced this also, and, and, and what would you need to be [00:14:00] whole again?

Graham Doerge: Yeah, a hundred percent. And, you know, I, I just feel it's always interesting with the family aspect too. I know in my, from my own family, my own experience, it was, you know, kind of going to And Alan on meeting and saying, well, that's not really for me.

Graham Doerge: You know, you know, like you, it's great that you go to a, like, I don't really need this is about you and not really understanding that this is just a family disease. Right. And, um, so what kind of work are you guys doing with the families? Are you, are you meeting with them kind of weekly doing sessions, recommending any sort of like outside.

Graham Doerge: Um, you know, uh, community based work or what do you guys do with your clients?

Ryan Hanson: Similar to, you know, the identified individual who comes into our care and into our system. We approach it the same way with a family member. It's not a programmatic, you know, everybody does A, B, and C, and everybody gets sent to this type [00:15:00] of support or everybody, um, Everybody has to do a codependency worksheet.

Ryan Hanson: We don't approach it that way. Approach it from a very individualized standpoint. We need to know about you. And then we, we tailor a plan. If someone needs to be on the phone twice a week. Great. Then that's how we're going to figure it out. If it's twice a month, that's fine. If it's some of the wonderful family support meetings that are already available.

Ryan Hanson: Great. Let's let's help you be able to access that. But if there are going to be barriers to that. Then we we try to be as creative as we possibly can to eliminate the things that that stop people. And then Graham, you give a great example that someone goes to their 1st Al Anon meeting and they identify differences.

Ryan Hanson: They identify all the things that are unlike them and say, this isn't helpful for me. Or I didn't, I didn't relate or I don't see how this [00:16:00] applies to my situation. And so we want to shift the thinking around that to. You tell us, and we're going to work together to identify what you need. And then we're going to do 10 things to make sure that, that we found it.

Ryan Hanson: That's great.

Dr. Harold Hong: Yeah. And when you're thinking about starting the work with the clients and given how individualized the approach is, what's your, uh, framework or lens that you'll bring to try and understand, like, what are the core pieces of this puzzle?

Ryan Hanson: So, uh, we start with some of the basics, which we've all learned, you know, the biopsychosocial assessments were gaining records from previous previous providers.

Ryan Hanson: If if if they're there.

Ryan Hanson: Family histories, [00:17:00] you know, we're getting information from collateral sources to be able to corroborate or rule in or rule out information. And then then similar to to the great work that you're doing starting to find out where don't we have enough information, right? It's and we are, you know, we're happy to go outside of ourselves.

Ryan Hanson: We want to work with other professionals. Who are in different realms and different disciplines. Uh, so, you know, someone says, you know, everything changed when we, we got our home in Vermont and in 1989. Great. Well, let's talk about that. But then let's also look at, you know, potential environmental factors.

Ryan Hanson: Somebody contract Lyme disease. And if they've been struggling with that on a Um, You know, a physical and neurological level ever since and it's never been talked about, or it was treated, but may not have been [00:18:00] completely resolved. I mean, there, there are 1000 different pieces that when we start picking apart, we can find the big ones.

Ryan Hanson: And we can also make sure that the ones that may have gotten missed that would have tripped us up. Yeah. Yeah. And I

Graham Doerge: think that, you know, that that's, uh, kind of highlights, you know, the work that we do here at New Waters to an extent with, you know, really getting that. information. You know, traditionally, it's been a lot of, you know, treatment placement happened pretty quick because families were in crisis and we had to get them somewhere safe, you know, as, as quickly as possible and medicated and stabilized and all of that.

Graham Doerge: And, you know, we do that here, but I think even more importantly, it's like it's, it's doing, you know, the assessment work that we do here and getting that information on the front end because it's, it's, it's so hard to really get the full scope of what's happening with this individual on, you know, a couple of phone calls trying to make placements and, and find out what's going on.

Graham Doerge: But, [00:19:00] you know, if everybody stops, takes a deep breath, you know, does some assessment work, um, some psychological testing, you know, full medical workup, psychological workup, and then we have such valuable information to move forward and say, okay, this is what's really going on with this individual. And this, Is what's driving our referral moving forward.

Graham Doerge: Um, instead of just kind of throwing darts at a dartboard, you know, which is, I feel like we've done for a while. So it's cool to, you know, be partnering with you guys in a, in a sense, and working with you all a lot on, on being that kind of source of information, really, you know, and helping, you know, uh, positive outcomes, you know, moving forward,

Dr. Harold Hong: uh, when it comes to helping clients

Ryan Hanson: build, we're in full agreement.

Dr. Harold Hong: When it comes to helping your clients build insight, what are some, some of your favorites, the stories about like breakthrough moments and how they got there.

Ryan Hanson: Um, so I, I, I'm a big fan of, [00:20:00] uh, throwing things back in your face. Um, it, it, it's not called that, uh, most of the time, but it's, it's, you know, if, if.

Ryan Hanson: I want to make sure that every client understands that we're listening. And so when we create care plans, those care plans are, this is what you're telling me you want to accomplish. This is what we would agree. We agreed together. We were going to use to measure that and how you would know that we made, you know, that we made a difference, that your life is better today.

Ryan Hanson: And, and so those great moments are when somebody, somebody says, you know, I don't know why I've been doing this. Like, you know, I just spent a lot of money and, and I'm not, I'm not any happier and we pull something out and we go back to, you know, you told me you're fighting with your spouse every single day that you literally go to bed angry every, every night of the week.

Ryan Hanson: And over the last [00:21:00] month, you've told me that you had one argument with your spouse. So something changed, right? And if, if we need to shift to something else, or, or we've accomplished what we set out to do, awesome. You know, those moments of insight are Oh, I did say that, you know, I told you at the beginning, uh, I remember a specific young man that said, I am never, ever getting married.

Ryan Hanson: Never like, okay, you know, that that's, I don't play matchmakers. That's not really a concern of mine, but what, what had happened is because of some of the experiences that he had in the past, his, Connections had really shrunk. His need for safety had shrunk some of that and, you know, six or nine months [00:22:00] after, uh, after we started doing some work.

Ryan Hanson: He came in and he said, you know what, I met this person and I think, I think this could really turn into something. And I'm like, I'm just going to like tell you now, you promised you were never getting married. And he started laughing because he never remembered saying that. He's like, I know I probably did say it, but he's like, uh, you know, and we're, you know, fast forward four and a half years later and two children that have been added to the mix.

Ryan Hanson: And, you know, it's. You know, he's happy. He has a life and, and, and he gets to share, share it with people in, in a way that he created. Yeah,

Graham Doerge: it's beautiful. And, you know, I guess one of the things that I, I wanted to, you know, dig into as well, because you guys are, are, um, You know, with the families throughout, you know, the entire treatment episode and, and in most cases, I would assume you're working [00:23:00] with families after the fact and through the aftercare and, and all of that, and, you know, how, in your opinion, does individualized treatment or care, um, really set people off for success and, and, you know, with relapse prevention and, you know, positive outcomes and, you know, what, what's the importance of that in your mind,

Ryan Hanson: there's, there's no reason to do it. Thank you. If you can't prove that it worked, um, and, and, and, and opening clients up and opening really the behavioral health industry up to, um, being accountable. In the sense of we have a responsibility to be behavioral sciences, um, and, and, and, and really pushing an industry into change and, and, and clients plants on some [00:24:00] levels.

Ryan Hanson: I mean, clients understand very quickly, like, Is this, you know, treatment speak or, or is this something objective that we can measure and we can measure it the same way, you know, from seven different angles? Um, so, so the outcomes, Graham, that, that you mentioned, Being able to identify the objective strategies, um, as well as, you know, certainly we want somebody to feel better.

Ryan Hanson: That's, that's going to be, uh, you know, uh, Well, it comes across as being more subjective. There actually are some objective ways to, to, to approach how, how we help clients and how we help ourselves as clinicians take a look at our is what we're doing with this client. This individual client. Is it effective?

Ryan Hanson: Then we can start [00:25:00] talking about how to design studies and, and, and do some of the other stuff. I'm. Okay. Secretly, I'm a statistics nerd. Um, I was, uh, uh, uh, stats T. A. In my undergraduate career. Um, and, and, and it's actually influenced just about everything I've done in my career because I want somebody to be able to know for sure.

Ryan Hanson: And I want us, I would like knowing for sure that something had the effect that we wanted it to have, not because of 27 commingled factors, um, which is actually how life works, but that, you know, we gave this particular medication and 3 days after and And ever since I've had a different experience in the way that I approached the world, uh, I, you know, I, I had my brain mapped and we started doing [00:26:00] some, some neuro rehab services.

Ryan Hanson: And since that has happened, I now feel less angry, or I feel less triggered in certain circumstances. Those things are measurable, um, both from a subjective and objective standpoint, um, and.

Ryan Hanson: I'm always excited when, when, you know, individual providers and, and, uh, academics and science, you know, works together because I, I, you know, I'll use an example like a biometric, uh, tool that it's not medical grade, but it starts to provide information that I can use. Uh, to potentially change behavior, improve, improve health and wellness, improve, uh, you know, connection.

Ryan Hanson: That stuff's cool. And, and, [00:27:00] and. It produces real change that people can see and

Graham Doerge: you're referring to, uh, like using a whoop band or something like that with your biometrics and, um, and kind of tracking sleep and, you know, recovery and all that type of thing.

Ryan Hanson: Exactly. And, and, and there's some. So new new companies that have come into the market that have that are producing medical grade measurements.

Ryan Hanson: Um, you know, the FDA approved. And so what what starts to happen is where before this was seen as kind of a pseudo piece of information, it's now actually real information that We as health care professionals can be including in fact should be including when we're looking at the overall, you know, sense of wellness.

Ryan Hanson: Uh, and, and, and, and, you know, if [00:28:00] someone is telling us, you know, I, I started my career, you know, 22, 23 years ago and, and clients would say, well, I'm not sleeping. Yeah, and, you know, the overnight staff at the facility would say every time I check on them, there's so we have this immediate discrepancy about the experience can actually be pretty objectively measured today, you know, whether, whether it's, you know, uh, The mattress that can measure movement and or the app that can be put on the bedside table that that measures, you know, sound and and and breathing throughout the night or or, you know, a wearable biometric that, you know, is measuring what some of the heart rate is like all of those things can give us an objective piece of information to understand is this person.

Ryan Hanson: I. Thank you. You know, do they, do they have sleep apnea and so their experience of their sleep, they're exhausted, even though they were in [00:29:00] bed for 10 hours, um, that's going to affect every other decision, uh, that they're trying to make at a critical time when, when they know they have things that, that, that need to, to happen for them.

Dr. Harold Hong: So use, you've integrated wearables and biometrics into the treatment plan for the client work.

Ryan Hanson: Yes, yes. Uh, and, and, and it gives it's one tool that we can use for a variety of individuals. But again, if, if someone is opposed to it, if someone says, I don't think that's my issue, you know, we're going to find some other creative ways to, to, to think about how, how can we, how can we help confirm for you that what you wanted to do is happening?

Ryan Hanson: How can, how can we, how can we measure Your wellness in 50 different dimensions. You know, that, that's [00:30:00] not always going to be a biometric wearable. That could be, could be a whole bunch of things, but being creative that way and helping, helping to, to do it in a way that the client can accept it and own it and use it and benefit from it.

Ryan Hanson: That's, that's what we're after.

Dr. Harold Hong: Yeah. Super interesting. I've been, I've been messing around with Apple watch and whoop. And, uh, Justin's been talking, making the aura ring. Do you have any preferences for like which platform you think works best for this type of consulting

Ryan Hanson: work? Well, I think some of it depends on what, uh, what the issue is.

Ryan Hanson: Um, but in general, our society is sleep deprived. So, you know, it's the fact, you know, sleep, food, water. Connection shelter sex, like there's some foundational pieces and and sleep affects everything. Yeah, absolutely everything. So, so, so I don't particularly care if [00:31:00] someone I don't have a particular preference around which.

Ryan Hanson: Biometric wearable someone uses as long as they'll use it. Right? So, you know, the, the, the, you know, the rings generally are less intrusive. People don't take them off as often. They tend, you know, they tended that therefore get used a little more consistently, um, that whatever will reduce the barrier and keep the progress moving forward.

Ryan Hanson: Right. That's what I prefer.

Dr. Harold Hong: Yeah. I've been really impressed with the accuracy of these, these wearables. Um, so I started using the Apple watch, uh, sleep tracking. And I honestly think that the American sleep association, like they're getting close to endorsing it as like fairly accurate, uh, because it can tell you how much time you spend in light sleep.

Dr. Harold Hong: slow wave sleep and REM and, and people are really [00:32:00] seeing correlations. Oh, if I had a drink at dinner or if I had two cocktails, my REM sleep, uh, like plummeted, uh, my, my slow wave sleep also plummeted. And, you know, that's why I feel so crummy. In the morning, just like so unrested and then that, that is like a very powerful motivation for people to like optimize their daytime activities and they're seeing all these new connections.

Dr. Harold Hong: And I think that's wonderful that people can understand their bodies more, more correctly, more, more clearly, uh, because without these insights, they're just kind of going on their gut reaction. And a lot of times we're just miscalibrated.

Ryan Hanson: Yeah, I agree. And I helping individuals to become their own advocates, helping individuals to become more informed health care decision makers in a variety of ways.

Ryan Hanson: It has to be personal. Like, good general information is nice, but most of us are smart [00:33:00] enough. Or egotistical enough that, that we can, we can talk away logical information, but as you pointed out, the second that somebody points out to me that if I have a drink later in the evening, I don't sleep as well.

Ryan Hanson: It's that simple. But, but it's that important that, uh, that that person. Can use their information. It's not just general information about alcohol later in the day. It could affect your sleep. It's when I have a drink or when, you know, in my case, when I eat, you know, the bowl of ice cream at 9 p. m. I'm not going to sleep as well.

Ryan Hanson: It's obvious, but. You know, and, and, and individuals, you know, again, in that example, it doesn't mean I'm not going to do it, but at least the next day, I'm not blaming it on something else. I can, I can have some accountability around it and I can make some decisions about what I'm going to do [00:34:00] now in order to, to feel better in a more sustainable way.

Ryan Hanson: Yep. Yeah.

Graham Doerge: Um, so how does it, how does the client's level of readiness to change affect the tailoring of the treatment plan?

Ryan Hanson: So I. I think, Graham, we're always looking for how can we, how can we be collaborative and invitational? And the person who says, you know, I'm, I'm never going to a 12 step meeting. You know, whether, you know, if they're one of their issues is, is, you know, substance use disorder.

Ryan Hanson: I'm not starting with the fight, you know, I'll start with tell me, tell me what you want to accomplish and tell me what you think you're willing to do today. We'll start there. We'll start there. It doesn't mean that that's, you know, where we're ending, but in [00:35:00] general, We're trying to help individuals lower resistance that doesn't generally happen with a, with a full frontal assault.

Ryan Hanson: Um, so especially, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. I was

Graham Doerge: going to say, especially with the clientele that you're working with, right? Is, is, you know, mostly, you know, high profile, high net worth families and people of that sort who are coming to you with a very different perspective than most people, right? And, um...

Graham Doerge: And it's hard to sometimes get them to make that shift because they do what they want, you know, and there's not a whole lot holding them back.

Ryan Hanson: And many times, uh, the system that they've created around them supports their, that thinking and that decision making and that, that level of, of, uh, uh, ability to, to, to chart their own course.

Ryan Hanson: Um, so. So [00:36:00] telling someone, here's what you need to do, um, you know, there are moments where that can work, but most of the time it really is a, you know, we're, we're here to work together now and, and, and you're telling me you're not happy about something I'm going to throw out, maybe it's connected to this, if you want to prove me wrong, that's awesome.

Ryan Hanson: I'm good with that. Yeah.

Dr. Harold Hong: Curious what are some things Versions of success that you're seeing and, and the ways in which they are structurally, not anywhere close to the idea of being successful. So for example, you could have a very successful executive in the conventional idea, so they're C suite, a very high net worth individual, but profoundly depressed and disconnected.

Dr. Harold Hong: And they might be surprised that they've been on the happiness treadmill [00:37:00] for decades. They got the promotion, they got the title, and there's not much further left to go on the treadmill, and now they're at the cliff's edge. And what does that moment look like for people, and how would you help them explore the idea of success all over again?

Ryan Hanson: We, uh, I'm so glad you asked that question because that is our client probably 50 percent of the time and so successful that they don't know anything else and the narrative that they walk around with is, I have to be whatever. I have to succeed at this level. Um, and, and it. And it, despite their enormous level of success, it has limited them in their [00:38:00] options and their, and their ability to, to be happy.

Ryan Hanson: Um, because the narrative says, I'm, I'm happy when I am the best in my industry. I'm happy as to when I am running 12 companies. I'm happiest when, you know, I own 14 homes. I'm ha And those aren't the things making them happy. Yeah. You know, so, so redefining success, redefining meaning, uh, and helping to find that, you know, passion and purpose, like, that's actually how I got into some of the, the career counseling and executive coaching components was Working with people and feeling like I needed to expand my ability to help them explore success in a new way and find new ways to define what the next chapter of their life could be without [00:39:00] being held back by What some of the six, you know, by all accounts, successful chapters at the beginning of the book have been so that that it's so powerful to watch when, when, when somebody finds the next passionate experience that is completely outside what they thought it was going to be like, it just, it's, it's, it's that moment.

Ryan Hanson: And we've all seen it with clients where they're like, Oh my goodness. I could be doing this. I, you know, and, and, uh, you know, I, I've, I've had it happen in my career, those moments where like, well, wait a minute, what, why, why does technology now, you know, I have a master's degree in counseling. Well, what do I really need to know about technology?

Ryan Hanson: And all of a sudden you find out, like, there's this, this thread that once you start pulling on, it's like, [00:40:00] Oh, this could do so much. Right. And, and, and that's the moment that we want for our clients. Yeah. Love that. It's awesome.

Graham Doerge: And I think too, with those really high functioning, uh, individuals, you know, a lot of times what happens is they've got that thing that's, that's.

Graham Doerge: You know, keeping them in their routine. That's keeping their life together. They've got people that to answer to, and then maybe they retire and that all changes, right? They're all of a sudden they're at home. They're, you know, with, with the family, a whole lot more, not a lot on their plate. And before they know it, they didn't have a problem before.

Graham Doerge: And now all of a sudden they're drinking three bottles of wine all day long. Right. So, um, it's interesting

Ryan Hanson: or their spouses because they're home all day. A hundred

Graham Doerge: percent. So, and I actually went through kind of a little bit of that as a, as the son, right? My dad worked on Wall Street forever and, uh, retired when I was in, you know, pretty, pretty early and I was in the seventh grade.

Graham Doerge: So it went from like, you know, he was working a lot of my, my childhood to all of a sudden he was [00:41:00] home all the time. And, you know, we have a great relationship now, but at that time I was already using drugs. You know, and I was already on my way and, you know, we were not seeing eye to eye, you know, at that point in our lives and struggled a lot.

Graham Doerge: I'm sure he, you know, struggled a lot with me, um, and what I put him through. But yeah, it's just interesting to see how that dynamic shifts with these high functioning people in the, in the family system, you know.

Ryan Hanson: Mm hmm. And retirement can be one of the triggers for that. Um, but again, talk about some individuals who've written some really amazing first chapters.

Ryan Hanson: So they create the multi million or multi billion dollar business. Yeah. And then they sell it. Now, and the what next, what next can be a very daunting moment?

Graham Doerge: 100%. Yeah. That's scary because you're just, you're always achieving and, and, you know, if you don't have that, that next thing that you're looking towards, people fall apart a lot of times because you've been so [00:42:00] trained for that.

Graham Doerge: So

Dr. Harold Hong: we live in a tough society, um, we can know what it means to succeed in a role, but no one's actually talking about what it means to be a human beneath all of that. Until they start working with people like you, Ryan. Right,

Ryan Hanson: right. Well, thank you, thank you. Um, but, but, but to your point, Doctor, like the are we human beings or are we human doings?

Ryan Hanson: And, and in most cases we're a combination and it's, it's finding that alignment for each of us at different points in our life because it changes. Yeah.

Graham Doerge: Yeah. And I think it's just so important for families and this is why we wanted to have folks like you on here for families to understand that there are other resources out there.

Graham Doerge: You know, uh, please, please, you know, reach out to, to people like Ryan or ourselves to, you know, just to have that conversation about, you know, what do we do in this, in this [00:43:00] situation? And um, You know, we, we are very happy to be working with you guys, collaborating with you guys on a lot of stuff. Um, is there anything that you wanted to plug, uh, maybe your website at the least and maybe some social media?

Ryan Hanson: Um, I, I'd rather plug you guys, uh, because in, in general, the clients who come to find us come through other people that we trust or other people that we've worked with. And so, you know, we're, we're, we're not. We have a website. We actually don't push our website. We don't really push social media. Um, and, and, and that's purposeful.

Ryan Hanson: You know, we, we, we aren't trying to be the biggest. We're trying to really be thoughtful and intentional, uh, so that we can do our very best work. Um, so I, you know, Trifecta. com is, is, or [00:44:00] sorry, trifecta. life is the website, but, uh, I, I, I'd rather have somebody, if, if they think they, that we can benefit them, I'd rather just have them give me a call and have a conversation.

Ryan Hanson: Yeah. Love it.

Graham Doerge: So trifecta. life, uh, Mr. Ryan Hanson, such a pleasure connecting with you today. Um, and we look forward to seeing you again in person soon.

Ryan Hanson: I'm, I'm excited to come up and see you guys very, very shortly. So thank you for having me today. Thanks, Ryan.

In this enlightening episode, we introduce you to our distinguished guest, Ryan Hanson, a trailblazer in the field of behavioral healthcare.

With over two decades of experience, Ryan's journey has been a harmonious blend of clinical expertise, research acumen, and visionary organizational leadership. His unwavering commitment to authentic and compassionate communication has not only transformed lives within multiple organizations but has also been a driving force in elevating team morale, productivity, and loyalty.

Ryan's therapeutic prowess is extensive, encompassing a wide spectrum of specialties, including sexual health, grief and loss, career development, addiction, mental health, and process-driven disorders. What sets his approach apart is its holistic nature, addressing the entirety of an individual's experience and offering a comprehensive path to healing and balance.

But Ryan's contributions extend beyond clinical practice. He possesses a remarkable talent for innovative program development, fueled by creativity, data-driven decision-making, and best practices. Throughout his career, he has successfully crafted sustainable and profitable programs across diverse settings, from start-ups to not-for-profit centers and large healthcare corporations. His deep understanding of business extends to areas such as board management, state licensure, program accreditation, and facility oversight.

In addition to his role at Trifecta, Ryan has held executive and C-suite positions, most recently as Chief Strategy Officer for an innovative start-up. Here, he helped individuals rediscover their passion and purpose through a therapeutic balance with screens and technology. His responsibilities encompassed operationalizing multi-state, multi-site residential centers, fostering partnerships with local, state, and national entities, developing accredited educational and research training programs, and advancing key strategic market initiatives.

Outside his professional life, Ryan finds balance and inspiration in his family, including his husband and daughter. Together, they share a love for reading, travel, gardening, science, dance, and movies. Loyalty, creativity, the power of the present moment, and compassionate connection guide Ryan's path in every facet of his life.

Join us in this captivating conversation as we delve into the multifaceted world of mental health, redefine success, and embark on a transformative journey toward self-discovery. Don't miss this opportunity to chart your course towards well-being and rediscover your true passions.

For more insights and information on Ryan's remarkable work, visit trifecta.life. Tune in to "Finding New Waters," where we explore the depths of what it means to be human and discover new paths to fulfillment and success.

Ryan's Links:

⁠https://www.trifecta.life/⁠

⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-hanson-b22b12222/⁠

Finding New Waters Links:

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