In this enlightening episode of "Finding New Waters," we delve into the inspiring journey of Shauna Vick, who shares her powerful story of overcoming alcohol use disorder, societal pressures, and finding a renewed sense of purpose through helping others. Hosted by Graham Durgie, CEO of New Waters Recovery, and co-hosted by B. Reeves, Director of Business Development, and Justin McClendon, Executive Director, this conversation sheds light on the challenges and triumphs of achieving long-term recovery.

Shauna Vick, a woman in long-term recovery, bravely opens up about her battle with alcohol use disorder, workaholism, and the so-called "Wonder Woman Syndrome." After decades of sobriety, Shauna faced a devastating relapse that led her to re-evaluate her life and career. Moving away from a successful stint as a software sales executive, she founded "Return to Joy Recovery and Intervention," dedicating her life to aiding others on their path to recovery. Born and raised in Toronto, Canada, Shauna now enjoys a peaceful life in North Carolina with her family and engages in outdoor activities to connect with nature and maintain her sobriety.

Key Points Discussed:

1. **Shauna's Personal Journey:** Shauna shares her intense struggle with alcohol, highlighting the fine line between being sober and relapsing. Her story is a stark reminder of the continuous battle individuals in recovery face, especially when confronted with old behaviors and societal pressures.

2. **The Pressure of Perfection:** The discussion delves into the "Pinterest Perfect Life" and "Wonder Woman Syndrome," where Shauna details how striving for an unattainable societal image contributed to her alcohol use disorder. The conversation brings to light the unrealistic expectations placed on women, particularly mothers, in today's society.

3. **Path to Recovery:** Shauna's recount of her path back to sobriety, including the importance of treatment, support systems, and the 12-step program, offers hope and practical advice to others facing similar challenges.

4. **Return to Joy Recovery and Intervention:** Shauna talks about her decision to leave her corporate career to start her organization, focusing on helping others navigate recovery. She emphasizes the joy and fulfillment found in guiding others towards sobriety and the importance of creating a life that doesn't necessitate escape through substances.

5. **The Role of Outdoor Activities:** A significant part of Shauna's recovery and current lifestyle involves outdoor activities like gardening, hiking, and spending time by the fire pit. These activities offer her a sense of peace and an avenue to practice mindfulness, contributing to her overall well-being and sobriety.

**Contact Information:**

For those inspired by Shauna's story or seeking guidance on their journey to recovery, she can be reached at Return to Joy Recovery and Intervention for support and resources.

⁠https://www.returntojoyrecovery.com/⁠

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Shauna Vick: [00:00:00] I know from the time I pick up a drink that I don't want it to stop. I always want one more. I was seeking that relief because I had lived for so many decades in sobriety. So let me, let me clarify. I was sober and working a program and then I was dry. Okay. I wasn't working any sort of program. I was being very self reliant and then I was in what I call prelapse mode and a lot of old behaviors.

That aren't healthy behaviors for me were coming up and then I took that drink and I was in a relapse for about two and a half years and I could not understand why I could not get sober again. I was hopeless. I couldn't, I just couldn't understand that I'd lived decades. Without alcohol, why could I not get back?[00:01:00]

Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Graham Durgie and I'm the founder and CEO here at New Waters Recovery. Thank you for joining us on our weekly podcast, Finding New Waters. Today, we've got a very special guest, Shauna Vick. Shauna is a woman in long term recovery from alcohol use disorder, workaholism, Wonder Woman syndrome, Perfect wife, life and mother syndrome.

Having decades of sobriety, Shauna experienced a devastating relapse and fought her way back to sobriety. After this experience, she decided to leave a successful decades long career as a software sales executive to found Return to Joy Recovery and Intervention. So that she could spend the second half of her life helping others navigate their way to recover from addiction and stay sober.

Born and raised in Toronto, Canada. [00:02:00] Currently resides in North Carolina with her husband, daughter, and two Labradors. Her favorite pastime is to spend early mornings by the fire pit to meditate and start the day in nature, no matter how cold it is. After years and years of office life, constant cross country travel, her preferred place to be now is outside gardening, hiking, golfing, skiing, kayaking, or fly fishing.

Most people know that if you're looking for her, you better check outside first.

B. Reeves: Welcome to another episode of Finding New Waters. I am B Reeves. I'm the director of business development here at New Waters, sitting here with my colleague, Justin McClendon, who is our executive director. I'm just going to read the first paragraph of her bio, and then we'll go from there.

Shawna, excuse me, Shawna McKenna Vick is a woman in long term recovery from alcohol use disorder, workaholism, Wonder Woman syndrome, Pinterest perfect wife, life, and mother syndrome. Welcome Shauna, and I want to start by just asking you, what is Wonder Woman Syndrome?

Shauna Vick: Well, that was quite a mouthful. I know [00:03:00] that bio details quite a bit in that, but Wonder Woman Syndrome and Pinterest perfect wife, life and mother syndrome, I feel led me to my alcohol use disorder.

I I'd had decades of sobriety B and I found myself on that hamster wheel of unattainable societal pressures from Pinterest I call it the Pinterest perfect wife, life and mother syndrome because you're on Pinterest. I was making, you know, flower arrangements with peeps peeps with, you know, those peeps for Easter that went in one vase and then the other because it all had to appear correctly.

But I was dying on the inside trying to keep up. I was a full time Working mom, I traveled for work. I was a software sales executive. I was traveling every week. I wanted to make a magical life for my daughter. So I was also involved in all of her schooling and managing everything for her care. I was what I call a stay at home mom who worked [00:04:00] full time and traveled because I had this pressure that I put on myself that I, in order to be the perfect wife and mother.

I had to do all the things and I couldn't ask for help and my life imploded. I had gotten into recovery very early in my in my adulthood and I, I follow the 12 steps and AA, I like to say AA gave me such a great life that it took me away from AA and I started to do everything on my own and started to really feel the societal pressure once I had my baby and I wanted to make, like I said, make life magical.

So I became Wonder Woman or I thought I became Wonder Woman. Well, no. I actually thought I was, and I bought the costume. So I have the cape, I have the bodice, I was Wonder Woman for Halloween a few times. But it really felt like that, that I needed a super power just to live. [00:05:00] And when I was working full time, and managing all of those things, I found that I was becoming more and more empty.

My cup was very, very empty. And because I had had alcohol use disorder early in my life, I knew that there was something out there that could help me to medicate myself. And I wasn't working a program, I wasn't taking care of myself. My mom was dying at the time and I was so overwhelmed. An example of what I would do is I traveled every week for work and on Sundays I would do all of the meal prep for my family.

In individualized containers, would be in the fridge and freezer so that they didn't have to worry about cooking when I was gone. Because my level of mom guilt of not being there was so high, I had to take care of everything. And when I needed the relief, I turned back to alcohol. [00:06:00] I turned back to alcohol to give me that much needed relief.

And I see it, I see it today. So many women, we need, we're, we're working full time, we're managing the house or stay at home. Moms who are super busy, believe me, they work just as many hours as working moms, working outside the home. Looking for that drink at the end of the day or some at 3 or some at 2 or 1 p.

m. in the afternoon. So that their shoulders can release and that feel up

B. Reeves: happens. It's funny because keeping up with the Joneses is As old as time. And so is alcoholism. But now that recovery and sobriety are more socially acceptable for lack of a better term, the pressure with the Pinterest perfect life and social media exacerbates the keeping up with the Joneses.

And it's [00:07:00] almost like it keeps up with the accessibility to treatment and recovery. Does that make sense? Where mothers, while it's more and more acceptable and there's less stigma, it, but the pressure is. Is more severe because of social media, it seems like. Yes. Because I mean, I'm, I'm 46. I mean, I'm, my friends, you know, wives and my friends who are female are, you know, they all have kids and a lot of them are stay at home moms and I'm, I know this is a thing, you know?

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Shauna Vick: I think if I heard you correctly, understand correctly that yes, we have destigmatized treatment and seeking help to a point. To a point, yeah. To a point. Right. But it's very difficult to make that more mainstream when the pinking of alcohol has happened so much by the large, by big alcohol.

Okay. We have all these women's drinks or these mommy wine clubs or getting [00:08:00] together with your, with your girlfriends afterwards, bringing the kids over, having a bottle of wine. per person, right? We're seeing a lot of that. And it's so normalized. Drinking this huge amount of wine is normalized because it's, we're, we're telling moms, these are, like I said, the unattainable expectations or societal expectations and that they need to have this wine to get through.

It's no different than mother's little helper. If you think about it, it's no different than Mother's Little Helper that we were giving to women in the 50s and 60s. And yet, I was speaking, it's been really on my mind lately because I was speaking with a therapist earlier this week, and she's seeing a lot of women for anxiety and depression.

And I just said, well, do you find that they drink a lot? And she said, well, we know, yes, yes, we do. But we have to get to that point to uncover and to [00:09:00] help people realize that drinking a bottle of wine a night is actually Not normal. Right. Right. Right. If we look to what the CDC or the National Institute of Health states what recommended drinks and I'm going to get this wrong because, you know, my brain at my age doesn't hold statistics perfectly, but let's just call it that it's three.

Drinks. I think it's three servings. Yeah. Three servings of alcohol a week. Mm hmm. For women. A week. A week. A week. Mm hmm. Three servings. That's one four ounce glass. Let's see. Let's say that Justin and I are wrong and say it's seven servings of alcohol a week. Let's, let's err on the side of more. So, four ounces, because I believe it's a four ounce pour that they're talking about.

That's a small wine glass, not a goblet, seven times a week. That is, [00:10:00] might be a bottle and a half over the course of a week. I know it's actually not that high, Justin. I think you're right that it's about three glasses a week. Let's just say that was it. If we were to say to just an average group of ladies who meet a couple times a week to have wine and have the kids over and share dinner, and they go through three bottles for a group of however many, what if we were to ask them, can you stick to, The answer might be, well, why would we want to?

Right? We're not in any trouble. We're not getting into trouble. I'm not an alcoholic. No, and that is not what I'm saying. Right. Right. I'm not labeling anybody. Mm hmm. But are we self empowering? Are we normalizing it so much that women are self medicating to just get through not realizing that drinking alcohol with anxiety is like pouring gasoline on [00:11:00] fire?

Justin Mclendon: Yeah, absolutely. And depression for that matter. And depression, yes. A hundred percent. And, uh You know, it's interesting what's coming up for me as you're saying that is, you know, this idea of like the relief, right? Just like you said, you experienced for yourself. And that's what I'm hearing, right? Is that like, they don't think it's a bad thing or maybe it's a, it's a time for them to socialize and things like that.

But I do think there is that element of. You know, they're engaging in that to seek relief from, you know, all the other things that are going on in life, right? The stress, the anxiety, the trying to, you know, the keeping up with the Joneses, or the, as you say, the Pinterest perfect lifestyle. And it's just It's not sustainable.

It's not sustainable. It's not sustainable and I think it is true that like a person that is engaging in that level of, you know, just continued motion and trying to keep everything up and so forth, you do have to have relief. There has to be some kind of relief point there. But when someone starts to find that in alcohol or [00:12:00] other drugs, I mean, we also see this with, you know, people starting to abuse like benzodiazepines or things like that.

And not to knock like other medications, but even other you know, being prescribed other, you know, depression or anxiety medications because same thing needing that relief from, from all of this, this chaos that they're trying to manage when the reality is. is if we maybe could change the chaos or change how we're living life, then we could find relief in a different way, I think.

Right?

Shauna Vick: Right. Exactly. And that's, you know, um, I love what you said that the sustainable, it's not sustainable. You know, that was the point that I, I couldn't quite get to, I couldn't sustain it. And, You are on, on a hamster wheel, you're always going and then you're in perpetual motion. You've painted a great picture, Justin, in just of how we are as women and in life it can be men too, you know, who [00:13:00] need to just take the edge off when they get home from work.

So I'm going to pour a couple of belts of scotch or bourbon or whatever and have a few beers while I'm cooking things. So this is not limited. to women, but it's this normalization of overusing alcohol. And then the prescription benzos, right? How many people do I know that have been prescribed Xanax to help with their anxiety that is caused by this perpetual motion that they're feeding with?

Drinking a lot and not sleeping. And so they need something to help with their anxiety because work pressures are getting to them. So if they take a Xanax during the day and then, you know, it helps to settle them through the day and then they're going home and pouring themselves the first glass of wine, it is just, then you're in perpetual motion too of that cycle.

So here you're trying to, you're trying to keep up with this, the unrealistic expectations that [00:14:00] society has put. Or that we put on ourselves, right? That we've put on ourselves and you're trying to manage it, the feelings here. So in, when I'm coaching women, I often will say, you know, it's not, don't think of it as that we're taking alcohol away.

This is an additive process, right? What do we need to add back in? What do you need to add back into your life? So you can manage those feelings. So you can find something different. So you can be present to your children. I mean, that I think is the greatest heartbreak of all is that you have women, parents who are together and it's, you see it in neighborhoods.

And this is, I'm not judging. You just see it in neighborhoods. The parents all get together, they're all having some drinks, the kids are over here playing. What happened to, I actually love my kids and want to be present to them, and have the kids present with [00:15:00] us so that they can see us watching them.

Yeah. But we're unable to because we're looking for the relief from all the other things that we're, we're

B. Reeves: going through.

Justin Mclendon: Right. Yeah, absolutely.

B. Reeves: So how did you, so you work with women, you've mentioned your own struggles with alcoholism and your recovery. How did you go from being a traveling software executive, super mom, wonder woman, trying to have the Pinterest perfect life to now being an interventionist coach and sober companion.

Everything you do. How did you make that transition?

Shauna Vick: Well, my life imploded, as I said, and let me tell you, when I say in my bio, it'll say something like a devastating relapse. I kid you not. It was a devastating relapse for me. Tell us about it. I will. The, the, I have no problem sharing my story. I have no problem recovering out loud.

I feel that I, you know, [00:16:00] I'm grateful that I had another chance at life. I will often say that you don't have to hit rock bottom to seek help or get recovery. That is not my story. I hit rock bottom and it was so bottom. So I realized that. You know, I had not realized, I know from the time I pick up a drink that I don't want it to stop.

I always want one more. I was seeking that relief because I had lived for so many decades in sobriety. So let me, let me clarify. I was sober. Working a program and then I was dry. Mm-Hmm. . Okay. I wasn't working any sort of program. I was being very self-reliant. And then I was in what I call prolapse mode.

Mm-Hmm. . Sure. And a lot of old behaviors that aren't healthy behaviors for me were coming up. And then I took that drink and I was in a relapse for about two and a half years and. I could not [00:17:00] understand why I could not get sober again. I was hopeless. I couldn't, I just couldn't understand that I'd lived decades.

Without alcohol, why could I not get back there with, and the disease does progress. I mean, I, I have been on other podcasts and you know, I've heard other people talking about a continuum of alcohol use. You know, you have alcohol use, maybe the social or moderate drinker. Who can actually stick to the three drinks a week or doesn't even have to think about sticking to three drinks a week because they can take it or leave it and they don't.

And then you have, you know, and I'm not a clinician, so this is the Shauna alcohol use continuum. It's not written anywhere. Alcohol use, misuse, abuse. dependence and addiction. Well, you know, as through my life, my disease progressed, even though I wasn't drinking and I was an alcoholic early on a very high bottom.

I just walked into an AA meeting and realized I need to change my relationship with alcohol. I was successful at work. I was a [00:18:00] single woman. I just moved to the States from Canada and I was transferred there. There was, I had no consequences that had happened, but I knew that it Alcohol was actually holding me back.

And so I knew because I also come by it genetically my mother was an alcoholic, my grandfather was an alcoholic that I, I just knew that I had a disordered relationship with alcohol. One was too many for me because two's never enough. And so When I first entered the rooms of AA or I first sought help, I was what I would call very high bottom.

With the disease progressing, I was in and out of treatment. Well, let me tell you a bit about how I started drinking. When I was on a business trip, so it's very safe, my husband wasn't there and I thought, oh, you know, I haven't drank in however many years, I'm, who cares, I'm just going to have one. Well, of course, I couldn't stop drinking that night.

And I thought it was just a [00:19:00] slip. I thought it was a one off, an outlier. Like, oh, okay, so I never really did regain control of being able to. But it felt good and I got that relief and I felt different. I had been so uncomfortable in my skin and in my life. I wanted to change the way I felt. I knew alcohol could do that for me.

So it wasn't for about six or eight Weeks later, maybe 12 weeks later until I picked up again. Hmm. And then it was maybe four weeks. And then it was three weeks, then it was two weeks, then it was regular. Now you have to remember that I hadn't drank. Everyone knew me as Sober Shauna. I was always the designated driver.

I never drank. I was always very open about that I was in recovery. So I had to drink in my closet in my car. I had to drink in secret. And we know that secrets do keep us sick. And I had to. I had to. I couldn't let [00:20:00] people know I was drinking. I mean, they eventually figured it out. But I hid it as well as I could until I couldn't.

And I had to take a leave of absence from work and I I did a a gradually escalating treatment. I started with an IOP and it wasn't enough for me. And I went away to an inpatient treatment and I took a long term leave of absence because I knew I wanted to get my recovery back. And I had some bumps through the way, Picked up a couple of times and ended up, you know, in that course of two and a half years, I probably only drank about seven months.

But because when I picked up, I went right down to that very dark rock bottom place and I had to be separated from alcohol in order not to drink. So I, you know, I, Went to treatment three times, I lived in sober living for four months, I did every IOP in the Raleigh area, I just moved around. And I also had some [00:21:00] sober time and I went to 12 step program and I had some sponsors and I just, I wouldn't give up.

Although there were times that I felt like giving up, I was hopeless at times just saying if I picked up again and I was down in that dark place, you know, I tried to kill myself a couple of times, you know, because I thought I can't keep doing this to my family. There has to be, like, something has to happen.

Right. And. The miracle happened when the miracle happened. It took what it took. You know, in retrospect, Justin, you can appreciate this. The first time I went, I went for 30 days. It was recommended that I stay longer. I stayed 45 days. We know that 30 days of treatment is an insurance not a scam, an insurance recommendation based on insurance.

My total time in inpatient treatment upon reflection is 90 days. Hmm. How about that? Over the course of two and a half years, but it was 90 days and I haven't picked up a drink since after that last trip and I'm very active in my own [00:22:00] program and I took the time off. I took the time off from work. You asked how I made the change.

Sorry, little ADHD, so I'm going a little tangential here. Took the time off from work, took a leave of absence. I did resign from that position. We made a family decision that I, you know, wasn't going to go back to to selling software, not because I couldn't do it, but because I wanted the second half of my life to mean something.

B. Reeves: I get it. I sold software before I was. We came to this field as well.

Shauna Vick: Yeah, because I just wanted to be able to give back. And I, I loved selling software. I loved my life. I loved everything. But we made some really difficult decisions. I would no longer be able to do that Pinterest perfect wife, life and mother.

Have that Pinterest perfect life, we made some financial decisions and sacrifices for me to be able to do that to take the year off, it did coincide with COVID I was able to homeschool my daughter for a year, and I [00:23:00] did all of my certifications that year as well for coaching and for sober transport and sober companion so I spent time Thank you.

Transitioning by doing that in that year and then more recently I became a certified interventionist. So that's how I made the jump. It was, it was a risk. And I'm grateful that I did it because I'm able to see where I can help people. And I, you know, I'll go to the ends of the earth for my clients do a lot of value added services around around that.

I said to someone last night, I said, I feel like. What I provide to my clients is the Cliff Notes version of how to get and stay sober because I tried it for so long. For those two and a half years, I tried everything. Sober companion. I tried a coach. I tried treatment. I tried IOP. And they all failed.

Contributed to me getting well, oh and therapists and psychiatrists, so that's how I made, but it was, I got to tell you B, it [00:24:00] was, there are some sacrifices that come with it, but I'm no longer driven by that need to keep up and, you know, being happy, joyous, free, a simpler life has has really benefited me.

I spend time in my garden now out by my fire pit. It's one of the lines I use my coach. How do you create a life that you no longer need a vacation from? How do you create a life that, you know, not longer need to get relief from what needs to change? Yeah,

B. Reeves: I hear, well, you know, working in this field often, you know, especially when I'm out on the road doing more of the outreach part.

And, and also here, you know, I just, sometimes I'll. Over have this sensation. Like, I'm like, I don't feel like I'm working. And it's a familiar feeling. Cause I used to feel it five and a half, six years ago because I wasn't, and I was supposed to be, but I was like still asleep or, you know, telling somebody I was somewhere [00:25:00] else or whatever.

But the feeling of like, I'm not working, but I'm actually at work working is great. Because that means I love what I'm doing. So absolutely. And it is fun. And we'd like the vacation part, you know, they're limited in this field, but you know, it's you know, it's a, it's a pull. It's attractive to. be able to help people is part of part of our work.

So

Justin Mclendon: absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's it's great stuff. I mean, to be able to, to work in a field where we get to provide value to people and help hopefully, you know, guide people to living a better, a better life, a better way of living to where they can have some of that relief incorporated into their day to day existences.

I mean, I can't think of anything. better to do for work, to be honest with you. A little biased, but.

Shauna Vick: No, I, I'm with you, Justin. Just to see someone be able to have that interior joy or delight with simpler things and to be able to take that deep breath. [00:26:00] And pause, maybe they've started a mindfulness practice, maybe they're doing something.

And I was at a lunch today with actually your previous guest on the podcast. And I said to him, I said, I used to function at such a frenetic pace. I was, you know, and you probably saw it at the beginning of the podcast because it was amped up and ready to do it. And then, you know, I. Take a deep breath, and I slow down, and I'm much more deliberate in my speech, in my actions throughout the day.

And I credit that to my mindfulness practices, right? I spend an hour and a half in prayer and meditation in the morning to calm me, to ground me, to center me, so that I can have the space and be present where I am. Whereas before it was always, what else do I need to do? What do I need to do? And I got to get this done, got to get this done.

And it's this frenetic pace. And I, I don't live like that anymore. And maybe that's how it feels like you don't need, because you do need a vacation from that. You cannot, it is unsustainable to stay at that frenetic [00:27:00] pace.

Justin Mclendon: Yeah,

B. Reeves: absolutely. But on the meditation subject, you know, I I tell people this a lot is, you know, we still, we all still need some kind of relief.

And the truth is, I still. Like I still like to feel good, but I just don't have drugs and alcohol to make that happen anymore. And so, you know, prayer and meditation and, you know, a program of recovery. But, you know, I meditate twice a day every day and have for almost the entire time I've been sober. And you know, it's like, and when I'm spiritually fit and some days, even though I do the same thing every day, there are certain, you know, sometimes I just wake up on the wrong side of the bed.

Sometimes there's something in external force that's a little more powerful than I want it to be or whatever it is. But when I'm spiritually fit and on the beam, as we say, all that, you know, Pinterest, perfect life stuff is just means nothing to me. But when I'm rattled, then I can start looking at my friends who are like, you know, building a second home at the beach or whatever, and start really judging my comparing my insides to other people's outsides.

But being spiritually [00:28:00] fit, I'm able to, when I, when I'm really on the beam. And all that is just completely meaningless to me.

Shauna Vick: And Oscar Wilde said, comparison is the thief of joy. Right. Love that. Love that. That is exactly where I go to be. As soon as I start to feel like I'm losing my joy, it's usually because I'm comparing.

And so I'm not settled inside. And I love what you said about, I still do things to make myself feel good. You know, one of the things that brings me so much good feeling is. I go outside by my fire pit that I built myself. I dug up in the ground, built this fire pit in the coldest of mornings and I light my fire and throughout the winter I will be out there in the middle of the afternoon just for an hour for whatever reason.

It just makes me feel good sitting, maybe because I'm Canadian and I just love being outside in the cold with the [00:29:00] warm fire. But there's something about it and I I figured it was very meditative for me. So it was like getting in some extra meditation time. And I don't know if you've ever seen the Muse headband for meditation.

It gives neurofeedback. And last week I was curious to see if I was in a meditative state when I was out there tending the fire. Because Why do I feel so good after it? Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I'm not talking to people. I'm not whatever. I mean, if people want to come over, absolutely. But I feel so good. One is the nature.

And it's scientifically proven that when we sit in nature, it does impact our okay, Shauna, Shauna, not the non Shauna clinician quoting stuff, but something about hormones or something. Raises our level, maybe it's serotonin. But I wore the Muse headband while I was just tending the fire, flipping down.

It's great for people with ADHD because you're always trying to figure out how to set the fire so the flames are building. But it was, I was in a pure meditative state, in a calm [00:30:00] state. And you hear the neurofeedback of birds when you're in that state. And that is why. That is one of the reasons that I think I feel really good.

But. That's my number one go to is get outside. I have, you know, winter vegetables growing in my garden now, just going out and seeing how they're doing and, yes, talking to them. It just makes me feel good. But it's, it's amazing, Bea, isn't it? When you're spiritually fit, when you're not self medicating.

with alcohol and drugs that there are simpler things that can make you feel good. Sitting with my daughter and playing a hand of cards, okay, it's not like a big dopamine rush, but it is more of, you know, the balancing hormones, the serotonin and just the good feeling. The good feeling body chemicals.

Absolutely. And I couldn't have done that. Couldn't do that when I was drinking. Right. Right. Exactly. Right? Because [00:31:00] all I was thinking about is, when can I get her to sleep so that I can have more? Right. Absolutely. And what did I miss? Thank God it was only two and a half years.

Justin Mclendon: For sure. And we don't have to live like that anymore, right?

So coaching, if you don't mind, if I shift gears with you, I'd love to hear a little bit about so as you mentioned, so coaching sober companion what else is it? Interventions. And interventions. Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, what does that look like for you? What kind of clients do you serve?

What is, what does that look, what does the work

Shauna Vick: look like for you? What does the work look like for me? Well, so we've been, I've been doing a lot. More interventions than the coaching and that's just, you know, when people are coming out of treatment they are usually doing some some sort of intensive outpatient, they're seeing a therapist, they might be in a 12 step program to have an extra layer of support, not always necessary.

So the coaching I don't do a lot of that. type of coaching, the recovery coaching or sober coaching that I [00:32:00] do are more with the gray area drinkers. Just like I was saying, like say the women who are using too much wine may not feel like they're abusing it, but want to change. So they're in this gray area on the continuum.

So do some coaching with them again, more of the additive. So what do you need to add back in your life? What is, what is your ideal life? look like, how, you know, how do you stay present with your children and your family? How do you manage your stress? And we look for those things. So that's what the coaching, the other coaching that I've done a lot of recently is for young adults or emerging adults, college age youth.

They're all the kids of my friends. They say, Shawna, you got to give some coaching. And so many. cohorts of children lost children, adults, young adults lost so much during COVID. They lost their ability to do even life skills, planning, organizing, interacting. And so, I do that life skills emerging adults.

So what do I do next or finding your purpose?[00:33:00] My, my niece and nephew who are college age, we're sharing with. The, their family and friends over Christmas, how lucky they were that they had a life coach for an aunt because they could call me and I do a lot of coaching with them and, and they were grateful for that.

But that's why I'm invested in that age group because I see it in my nieces and nephews. So that's the coaching side and the companion. I am a live in sober companion, usually for women who are chronic relapsers like myself and the, purpose is to really help them to establish their life in recovery and wrap their real life around their recovered life.

What happened to me is I came home and it was like, mom's home, Shauna's home. Okay. Everything goes back to normal. And I had to wrap my recovery around my life. Doesn't, that's, that is unsustainable. Right? Recovery first. Live next. So I do, I've just launched for 2024. The [00:34:00] 24, or pardon me, the 72 hour transition companion and specific for women coming out of treatment who may have been a couple of times.

Mm-Hmm. . And for that extremely vulnerable time. Yes. That first 72 hours when you leave the bubble of treatment. And you're going home and when you leave, when you leave your house to go to treatment, you've been in your disease and your my life is a blank show. It's did you like that? You didn't have to beat me, beat me, beep.

So it's a, it's a. A really you're in a bad spot and you have to go home to that and the shame associated with that. It can unravel a lot of the great work that you did in treatment where you were surrounded by staff, therapists, other women that you processed with out on the patio. You know, if things, you had a bad phone call home, you might not have been able to see your therapist, but you could process with people.

How do you go from that? All of that support to [00:35:00] back where you were last in your disease.

Justin Mclendon: I mean, this,

B. Reeves: that 72 hours is so crucial. I don't know what, I'll never know the answer to this, but. I got home from treatment at 10 30 in the morning on a Wednesday and a guy took me to a meeting at noon and then some other friends I knew took me to a meeting that night and I, if I hadn't gone to a meeting that same day, I just don't know what would happen because I, I just, it's so important for it to be a continuum, whether it's, you know, going from detox to res to IOP or just from treatment to, The room's a recovery, but I, I think that is absolutely a great idea to have that 72 hour landing pad,

Shauna Vick: if you will.

It is. It really is. And so I pick up, we pick up the women at treatment, travel home with them, and we're there for that first 72 hours. The first trip to the grocery store. Yeah. First meetings, what meeting are we going to today? You don't have to walk in there alone. That's [00:36:00] huge. It is huge. So it's been very well received by the treatment centers.

And, you know, considering how much we invest in treatment, it's a, it's a small investment because hiring a sober companion for three weeks or four weeks is daunting. It's as much as the cost of treatment and not saying I wouldn't do it. And I've done many engagements like that, but I really think this 72 hours is so much more consumable.

And so much more helpful. So I'm doing that. And then of course the interventions is the invitational style, a gradually escalating style where the whole family is involved. It's a six month contract. And we work with the family and the person of concern. It's not an ambush style intervention. It is not surprised the, the person of concern is invited to.

participate, they may or may not participate, but it's really about healing the family and the intergenerational trauma so that everyone gets well and we can pass recovery down to the next generation. So it's the arise model for interventions. And then [00:37:00] the sober companion, the 72 hour transition companion, and you know, we provide transportation.

To and from just takes the burden off the family to have to transport their loved one to treatment. It really, and I mean the emotional burden, the emotional burden, I don't want to go. I don't really want to go. It just, it eliminates all that. It's a benefit to the family and then the coaching. And so with that, with the 72 hour transition companion, I also will meet with them weekly.

By Zoom if they're not local or meet with them weekly for three months. So that is just all part of it to, you know, so that they always have someone on their, on their team because our care teams go wide and deep. So to have an additional person, Oh, and I do, the other thing is do is event companions.

So if someone has a wedding. or a board meeting or whatever, or a sales meeting and then travel, I'll go and become a bit of a [00:38:00] chameleon. Oh, I'm just I've done a few weddings. Oh yeah, I'm just, they'll just say, Oh, this is an old friend of mine from Raleigh. And I'm just there with the, with the mother of the bride or as a wedding guest, additional wedding guests.

So that's that's been really fun.

Justin Mclendon: That's really smart. I mean, that is really smart because I mean, how many times, right? I mean, gosh, how many times have I heard? How fearful someone is about you, you name it, right? Exactly. Those things, especially, especially, you got the champagne toast. I mean, all the various situations that people get just really, really afraid of.

How are they going to navigate that? You know? So, I mean, I think that's just ingenious, right? To, to have somebody there in your corner. You know, just incognito, just there for support and if you need them, I mean, that's, that's great.

Shauna Vick: Yeah. That's really good. Then I haven't done this, but executive companions for back to work, you know, um, how I position it is that I'm just a consultant and they just say they're a consultant and because you be, you could do that too.

We've been in business for so many [00:39:00] years. We can easily you know, fake our way through or fit right in and we're just, they just hired me for a project and it doesn't have to be, but it's someone there who you can process with through the day. Just, just having someone in your corner, you don't have to do anything.

You just have someone there in your corner in the most stressful times.

Justin Mclendon: Cause I mean, for a lot of people, I mean, that is the most stressful part of trying to, you know, figure out how you're going to navigate the new life and recovery is. Those type of things, right? How am I going to deal with my family?

How am I going to do these events? How am I going to go back to work? You know, all of those things. So, I mean, I just feel like that I can see where that would be extremely helpful for a lot of people. So, that's great. I'm really glad that you're doing that,

Shauna Vick: Sean. And I'm loving it too. You know, like I, I love it.

Like you said, there's not a lot of vacation time because even when we're on vacation, we're getting calls, you know, there was a survey on LinkedIn that said, well, you take calls from clients over the holidays. I'm like, Oh my gosh, like it's, it's crazy. It's the most difficult time for clients, of course I will.

[00:40:00] And my family is so grateful that I'm sober that they are like, go, go take your calls. Or if a sponsee calls, I sponsor women in the AA program, if a sponsee calls right at dinner time, the whole family goes. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. You know, no one has ever said anything about that because they know in order to keep it, I have to give it away.

But I called my company Return to Joy Recovery. Return to Joy. And the reason for that is that I had lost my joy when I was seeking that Pinterest perfect life. I had always been known as Happy Shiny Shauna and I didn't feel it. I could still fake it to a point, but I didn't feel it inside. And that's the difference between happiness and joy and that just joy for living.

And I spent time, I bought my company website. a year before I relapsed because I knew I wanted to eventually go into recovery coaching and into this. And so I bought Return to Joy Recovery before I ever picked up my first drink. And isn't that cool? Yeah, [00:41:00] that's cool. Because I really wanted to return to joy.

That was when I was in that pre lapse mode. I knew that I wasn't joyful. I didn't have that peace in my heart. And so that's why I named it to Return to Joy, so I can help people navigate their path back to joy. to a joy filled life.

Justin Mclendon: I love that. I love that. And we'll also make sure to put all of your contact information, social media handles, all that in the, in the show notes so that everybody can access that as

Shauna Vick: well.

I try to stay current on content with social media, but I have a 15 year old who I say needs to stay off her phone, and so I try to model that, and then I find that I have to be on it, you know, to Stay relevant and stuff, but I I do have social media handles and have a website and, and I always will take any call.

That's the other thing. You know, people get are afraid to call an interventionist because they're afraid that it's going to be this big deal. We have hijacked that term in behavioral health, but [00:42:00] that's what it is. And really we intervene with each other on a daily basis. We might ask someone to eat healthier, a loved one to eat healthier.

That's an intervention for intervening. And I don't want everyone, anyone to ever be afraid to pick up the phone just to chat. Like call me if you think you have a problem. If you think you may have a disorder relationship. It's a judgment free, you know, call. Judgment free 30 minutes. Let's chat about it.

I don't want anyone to feel alone like they have no one to

B. Reeves: call. What you just said reminded me of the two best pieces of advice I got when I started working in this field. Number one, don't let my job be my program of recovery. They can complement each other, but they are separate. Correct. And then number two is always answer the phone.

Because I get so much joy out of getting a call when there's no way this person is going to make sense for our program. Right. Giving them, sharing a contact, and giving them your number, giving them whoever's number. It is, it's just a great feeling to be able to at least help, even if it's not going to be [00:43:00] like, they're coming here.

But that, I mean, that's what so much of this job is about, is literally sharing. Phone numbers with each other.

Shauna Vick: Right, exactly. And we do it, we do it joyfully. It might mean, like someone said to me, Sean, I was going to call you up, I was going to pass an intervention over to you. You know, that's from a business perspective, you don't necessarily want to change over, but he's like, it wasn't a fit for me.

I think it would be a better fit for you. And I do the same thing. I had someone call it. I'm so sorry, this is way out of my scope. I'm going to refer it to someone else because we always want people to have the right, and we know how to navigate through. Exactly. Even if you don't need an intervention, you know you want to go to treatment, but you don't know where you want to go.

Exactly. Because we're the ones who are doing the research, right? Right.

B. Reeves: We're the ones who know us. I mean, I just always want to encourage them to call us. Instead of trying to do their own research because that can end in

Justin Mclendon: total disaster. Total disaster. I can't. You know, I was just having the same conversation with someone last night at the dinner in that, you know, the treatment community, I guess if we want to call it that, [00:44:00] like nationally, is, is huge, right?

I mean, there's so many treatment centers, there's so many people involved in this work. But the, the funny thing is that like, it is still so small, right? Everybody knows everybody, everybody knows what each, each program and each person is doing and what the specializations are. And that just feels so good to me that as, as we're saying, right, you get those phone calls and.

He also knew who's doing good work and who's not doing good work. And just being able to get that person connected to where they need to go so that they have a fighting chance at having some change happen. I mean, it's just, I, I can't think of anything else that I would rather be, be doing for

B. Reeves: sure.

Definitely. I was talking to a personal friend this morning. I've known my for my entire life. And I, he's got a situation with a friend and coworker who, who needs help. And he keeps just profusely thanking me and saying, I'm like, man, you have no idea this. This helps me if nothing else. This helps me say so sober one more day.

And it's just, I mean, it's, I hate to say it's fun, but it kind of is because it feels so [00:45:00] good just to be. Doing anything we can to, to help people.

Shauna Vick: Absolutely. Definitely. And I, you know, I have a call to action. If there's any women out there that are drinking a bottle of wine a night, just give me a call.

Yeah. Doesn't mean we're going to have you stop. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. You know, if you're drinking a bottle of wine a night, what are you not doing? What are you missing? Right? Let's see if there's something we can help you pull back in because I'm just gonna say it And this is not just a bottle of wine a night.

It's too much to be drinking. It's too much

Justin Mclendon: and if you're drinking and I'll throw this out there because I think there's a big misconception and Not to start this whole conversation back up again. But as you mentioned, I think social media media. I mean, we have a lot of shows out there now, not to kind of call anything out, but that really glamorizes drinking alcohol use.

I mean, it's just very mainstream. I mean, you see it everywhere. And bottle of wine a day, you are going to experience withdrawal symptoms [00:46:00] from that. You really are like you, you're going to need some medical assistance to stop, discontinue that drinking. And I think a lot of people, don't know that, they don't realize that, they just see it as, you know, this is, this is normal, this has been normalized, this is a routine for me, it's not a problem, I haven't had a DUI, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But the reality is, is like when it reaches that volume and you're doing it consistently, it is a

Shauna Vick: medical problem. It is a medical problem and people joke around about having the shakes in the morning. They joke around about having the shakes in the morning, right? Oh, it's no big deal, I just drank too much last night.

It actually is a big deal. It

Justin Mclendon: absolutely

B. Reeves: is. And the, the normalization factor and, and it, you know, I, I knew that I partied pretty hard, but I, but, but the people I grew up around and went to school with, it was, it was normal the way we behaved. I remember one time I was I was talking to one of my best friends on a Saturday after I'd been at a rehearsal dinner for a wedding the night before and he was asking me how it was.

I was like, yeah, standard. I drank 25 vodka [00:47:00] sodas. Just sort of kidding, but realized that I was completely serious. And then, you know, it's funny, he's actually now sober now for a few years, too. It's amazing. But we still joke about the 25 vodka soda thing and how we thought it was normal because it was for us.

But that is so far from normal. I mean, that is so far from normal.

Shauna Vick: Right. And I, Justin, I don't think we hear that enough, too, about The withdrawal and how difficult it is, especially if you're also taking prescribed Xanax, right? You're taking a prescription drug from which you need actually to medically withdraw from, which is why I'm grateful, you know, for new waters, because I've referred a few clients here to have such a phenomenal.

Place here in Raleigh and even if you don't live in Raleigh to come here because of the way you address the mental health Aspects you do the assessments the mental health assessment the alcohol assessment you can really it's a really great launching pad It's a really great launching pad, and I know it's you know [00:48:00] But I, I do fear for people.

That's what I'm saying. If you're drinking a bottle of wine at night, call me, but don't stop. Don't stop drinking. I'm not going to have you stop. Right. But just call me. Yeah, just call me. Let's just talk about it.

Justin Mclendon: Yeah. So again, we'll put all your stuff in the show notes, but since you're giving that offer to people, do you want to share your number now on the podcast?

Oh, sure.

Shauna Vick: It's 919. 867 1505. And that's a number where you can talk or text and yeah, call me. I have no problem. It's a Google voice number so that you know.

B. Reeves: Well, Shauna, you I'm so happy for all that you're doing, because when I first met you, you were doing more just the coaching, but now to see that you're doing interventions and just you just, it's amazing.

I'm really happy to see what you're doing and we love working with you. So thank you so much for being here today. Yes. Thank you.

Shauna Vick: You know, I usually would say this at the beginning, but I am, I'm really honored to be here and to be part of, I've [00:49:00] loved listening to all of your podcasts and all of your guests and how just transparent and real you address the issues.

So thank you. Thank you. And Justin, it's great. I've known you for so many years. It is, it's great to be able to sit here and share this experience with you. Likewise. Thank

Justin Mclendon: you. Likewise. It, it really warms my heart to be sitting here with you, Shauna, and having this conversation. I mean, you do not help. Can we, can we tell them?

Can

Shauna Vick: we tell them? You can tell them. Yes. Is that okay? Go for it. So, when I relapsed my first therapist was Justin and I, I do say that Justin saved my life because I was hopeless and I needed a higher level of care than I was getting and he introduced me to the treatment center where I did go. And so I, he facilitated me getting well and he stuck with me.

And not only that, I was sharing this. With someone that hit you were [00:50:00] so unconditional in your regard or your support for me. I never felt alienated. I never felt like I, yes, I knew I'd made a mistake. I was self flagellating enough and you didn't have to do it for me. But it was that unconditional.

Therapeutic love in a therapist way that unconditional positive regard say that allowed me to have the space to seek getting well as opposed to continuously bashing myself. You just, I knew I would never give up, but you also never gave up on me. And that's why I do for my clients. I will never give up on them if they continue to like.

Clawing after getting well, trying to get well. If you're not going to get, I will work as hard as you. I will never give up. And that's what I really felt from you, Justin. I you played a big part in my sobriety and recovery.

Justin Mclendon: I appreciate it. I was grateful [00:51:00] to be a part of it. And Shawna, I could not be any more proud of you.

So good.

Shauna Vick: It is nice to still hear that

Justin Mclendon: people are proud of you. That's so proud. Yeah. Thanks. Well, Shauna, thank you. Thank

Shauna Vick: you. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Yeah.

Justin Mclendon: Great. Awesome. Thank you. Bye.