Question 1

Podcast Transcript

Accepted Answer

#017 Tripp Johnson
Tripp Johnson: [00:00:00] But ultimately I think we're putting like way too much emphasis on the pharmacology aspect, not enough emphasis on social determinants of health and all of the community stuff. Like I think we've gotten so disconnected and social media and technology is, Only makes it more so that like we forget, like we're social primates, like we came outta the primordial stew. Yeah. Like we're animals and we forget that because we're now we're just on our phones and we forget about community and then all the things that used to bring us together and like the shared humanity. So I'm thinking a lot about like how do we advance a narrative of wellness, of human flourishing and leverage the healthcare system?
Tripp Johnson: Cuz that's what it's there for.[00:01:00] 
Graham Doerge: Good afternoon. My name is Graham Durge, and I'm the founder and c e o of New Waters Recovery in Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome to our weekly podcast, finding New Waters. Our goal in creating Finding New Waters is to provide a resource for families to help navigate the complexities of supporting a loved one struggling with substance use or mental health.
Graham Doerge: When we find ourselves in crisis due to one of these issues, most people have no idea where to turn. We hope to shed some light under what is often the darkest hour for many families. I'm joined here today by our continuing care coordinator, Ryan Jarrell and Tripp Johnson. Tripp is the founder and c e O of Aim, Aveda Integrated Medicine, and the owner of Green Hill Recovery as the C E o Tripp is responsible for strategic decisions, organizational performance, and cultural management.
Graham Doerge: Trip ensures that all team members are aligned with Aimes core values, living centered accountability, unity, transparency, and growth. Additionally, trip is responsible for developing Aimes brand, the externalization of its culture, [00:02:00] which involves representing the organization locally, regionally, and nationally.
Graham Doerge: Trip. Graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point with a Bachelor of Science in Economics and a minor in systems engineering at West Point Trip was a four year member of the varsity tennis team and winner of the Patriot League Championships. After graduation, he was commissioned into the Army as an infantry officer and completed the US Army Ranger School, airborne School and Air Assault School.
Graham Doerge: Trip deployed to Southern Afghanistan as an infantry platoon leader in 2012 13 in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. Upon return, he was selected to be an ex executive officer before finishing his service as a battalion operations officer. Prior to joining Green Hill Trip was a second year law student at U N C and an interned at the North Carolina Department of Justice Trip left Law School to pursue his passion for helping young men navigate the complexities of early adulthood.
Graham Doerge: That's a great place to start for me. Trip, welcome and happy to have you here. And glad that you could [00:03:00] finally make 
Tripp Johnson: it. I've been waiting for the invite. 
Graham Doerge: Listen, we had to work out some kinks before we, we had you in here, right? I'm psyched to have you today, man. And obviously we've known each other for a bunch of years now.
Graham Doerge: I consider you a dear friend and and obviously a confidant and a guy that I can go to with Issues, questions, business related issues. So it's really cool to have you in here today. Yeah. 
Tripp Johnson: Excited 
Graham Doerge: for it. Yeah, man. So let's let's start with how did you get into this field? And, obviously you've got a military background of decorated.
Graham Doerge: Individual. So give us a little bit of background. 
Tripp Johnson: Yeah I'll start with I grew up in Hickory, North Carolina. I thought I was gonna be a professional athlete. I was traveling around the country for tennis, which was all going really well until I, I had a little bit of an attitude problem and injury.
Tripp Johnson: And then that kind of coincided with, I'd always put everything off to focus on tennis, and I decided hey, Tennis isn't everything, then maybe I should start having a little bit more fun. That led me to really [00:04:00] probably becoming, embracing a new identity. I had really had an identity built around being a tennis player.
Tripp Johnson: The next identity I had was around being just over the top a partier. And then I found myself at, 17 trying to figure out how to make my family proud because I hadn't really tried very hard in school, didn't have great grades, and they had all gone. Have their master's degrees and stuff from grade schools.
Tripp Johnson: Didn't know how I was gonna get in anywhere. Yeah. So I ha I was still good at tennis, but I wasn't great and I looked up prestigious schools with bad tennis teams and I found the Ivy's. I was like I could play with these guys, but they're not gonna recruit me really hard. Then I found West Point.
Tripp Johnson: And their tennis team. And I love the tennis team. I feel very connected. So I'm sorry for any army tennis players out there, but like we're just not the top D one team out there. And so they recruited me to play there and it was a great institution and I always had looked up to folks in, in the military.
Tripp Johnson: So it checked every box ended up [00:05:00] barely getting in to, to the service academy. I think that coincided with the same week with the first time I got arrested for drinking. And then I, went to West Point thought, oh, I'll get everything together. You've gotta be, this is gonna provide all the structure I need.
Tripp Johnson: But it didn't, just like anywhere you can find that your group of guys to run with, I found my guys, or I might have started the group at least in my class. So I started, just had the same pattern. Work hard, play hard barely graduated, got in a lot of trouble while I was up there which is all funny now, but wasn't at the time to my family.
Tripp Johnson: After graduating, like we said, I went to ranger school, took over a platoon, went to Afghanistan, and I was still getting in trouble. Like I had this funny. Seasonal, I call it the seasonal arrest record. Yeah. Like I would do really well all year and then the summer would come and I would blow it up and I think it was because I was much more comfortable picking up the pieces and putting them back together than actually waiting into new waters.
Tripp Johnson: So it was like really comfortable for me to to blow [00:06:00] it up and then rebuild back to where I was and then blow it up and do it again. So I always got very good at that rebuilding right kind of process. So when I came back from, The deployment. I fortunately had a friend who actually ended up being in Congress, max Rose.
Tripp Johnson: He pulled me aside. He's dude, what are you doing? He's you're not this, you're trying to be this character, right? This macho man, hard partying guy. But you really want to be more intellectual. You want to do other things, but you think this is what you're supposed to be, right? So you need to investigate that basically.
Tripp Johnson: So I was like that, that hit hard. And so I called my dad and was like, I don't know. What I need, but something's gotta give. And he said, this is gonna sound crazy because you're this 210 pound Army ranger macho, drinking a fifth of vodka, chewing a bunch of Copenhagen guy, but I think you're gonna this type of yoga and I think you should start meditating.
Tripp Johnson: And this type of yoga was a shanga yoga and and he said, look just try it for a month. Just do 30 days in a row, see what happens. Yeah. [00:07:00] And I said, cool. I did it. And he sent me a copy of The Untethered Soul, which is a book I recommend all the time. And a couple videos of Alan Watts.
Tripp Johnson: Yeah. And that kind of kicked off this whole new path for me, and it was very much about, I had looked for, I had looked for a lot of, relief in, drugs, alcohol, and just embracing the hedonic pleasures as I call them. And that didn't work. Like it was, it didn't fill whatever hole, whatever I was looking for.
Tripp Johnson: And yoga meditation started to provide that path for me that it, that felt like there were a lot of strings to pull at and went off the deep end there for a while. Yeah. 
Graham Doerge: And dig into this as Ashtanga, the actual practice of Ashtanga a little bit. Cause No, our audience really knows what 
Tripp Johnson: that is.
Tripp Johnson: So it is a, Ashtanga yoga in the most traditional sense iss just the eight limbs of yoga. And so it, it's a holistic path of yoga. It's not just the asana or the physical practice, but usually when we're talking about Ashtanga these [00:08:00] days, it's a particular set series of postures. And typically you do this kind of first thing in the morning.
Tripp Johnson: There's a lineage out of kind of Miso India, and I was introduced to that again by my father, started practicing. It's a really intense practice, so a lot of the power yoga that people talk about, the hot yoga, that stuff, a lot of it stems from the asanga lineage, but the really cool thing, and I think what's really powerful about it is that you, you have this set sequence and instead of a teacher, Walking everyone through the same sequence at the same time every day.
Tripp Johnson: What you do is you practice every day, but you go at your own pace, you follow your own breath, and your curriculum, as they call it is really given to you by the teacher. So you want some level of mastery over the postures that come before it until you get the next one. Got it. For me, what it was like, it was really challenging.
Tripp Johnson: I couldn't touch my toes. And there's a lot of forward folds in the beginning and. It provided a [00:09:00] really nice challenge every day and a way to really fine tune my body and my awareness with that because everything you eat, drink, all of that affects how you show up on the mat. So at first it was really just a physical practice.
Tripp Johnson: It was just a really good exercise routine in some ways. Yeah. But it also introduced me to the idea that there was more to it than just these postures. Yeah. 
Graham Doerge: Now, so is there a particular diet that you, that people practicing our stock here 
Tripp Johnson: follow or. The Yo Ang or yoga's kind of sister science is Ayurveda, so a lot of people have some sort of Ayurvedic ish diet.
Tripp Johnson: Most folks are vegetarian. I'm 99% vegan. Sometimes I'll sneak a piece of cheese, like if it's sitting out here in the hallway. I've seen it. Yeah. I try not to tell people about that, that's my real indulgence these days is a, an occasional piece of cheese. But yeah, so I've been vegetarian or vegan for probably eight or nine years.
Tripp Johnson: Yeah. 
Ryan Jarrell: Trip I've known you for, I. For years now. And I gotta tell you, I think I've learned the most about your past from that three paragraph intro that Graham just read. I've known bits and pieces, but [00:10:00] I think one of the cool things about working with you is you do have this story that to the outside seems really winding, but to know you is to really know someone who has a through line and a, and an intentionality behind it. And you've gone everywhere from young tennis pro to someone who's in active combat situations in Afghanistan all the way to, doing yoga with 28 year old heroin addicts.
Ryan Jarrell: And I'm wondering is there a through line that you can identify throughout these pieces? Is there something that weaves it all together that 
Tripp Johnson: makes it kind of trip? Yeah, I always say it started where the through line at least starts for me was in fifth grade. I remember sitting on the floor of the gymnasium watching a talent show.
Tripp Johnson: And I felt like extremely untalented. This was before I was, good at tennis. And I just thought, man, like it would be cool to be talented. Then I'd be happy. Then I started thinking like really, I just wanna be happy. Yeah. And That led me to really having an early experience of, oh, I could just choose that this is okay and everything is good.
Tripp Johnson: And I did that for a little while, but, then [00:11:00] the mind starts going you, the ego gets involved and that's, what really drove me competitively with tennis. There's also, there's an interesting story with religion winding into that, which was, I. I grew up in a, a Christian household, but not dogmatic.
Tripp Johnson: We didn't really talk about it that much, but I thought, Hey, if happiness is important, then, and then I found out about heaven and hell started thinking about that. I was like happiness on earth is one thing, but like I want to turn all happiness, so I better be very dogmatic about my, religious practices, what I need to do to get into heaven essentially.
Tripp Johnson: And then, again, my black and white thinking back then was very much okay, I'm gonna follow all of these things. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be good enough for God, then I'll get into heaven. And then when I started really investigating scripture, I found too many inconsistencies that my mind couldn't make sense of at the time.
Tripp Johnson: So then I threw it out. It was like throwing out the baby with the bathwater situation. So I said, Hey, look, if that's not part of it, [00:12:00] then. I'm just supposed to have as much fun as I can right now no matter what. And so it was really that search for happiness and which I can now consider more of a search for like contentment and equanimity, but it was definitely this search for like how can I just.
Tripp Johnson: Be happy and be content in my body. And then the idea, the other kind of piece of that was I always felt very lucky. Like I always knew I was a really lucky person and so part of my happiness was always going to be like being a part of something bigger and feeling like I was giving back to the world.
Tripp Johnson: That's what obviously led me, to the military piece and then what I do now. 
Graham Doerge: Yeah. No and I think that obviously, working with young adult guys, I can that's been a passion of mine o over the years as well. And what kind of really drove you to particularly work with this population and Bill Greenhill recovery.
Graham Doerge: Yeah. And tell us a little bit about Greenhill 
Tripp Johnson: recovery too. Yeah. As far as Greenhill goes, I didn't have a passion for it. Yeah. The truth is that someone had the idea, [00:13:00] my first business partner had the idea for Greenhill. He was originally going to open it with another friend of ours who had gone through a very similar program to Greenhill.
Tripp Johnson: That relationship fizzled out and he called me and he said, Hey, do you wanna help start this? And I said, I was in law school, I had just finished up, or I was in the middle of my internship at the attorney general's office and I hated it. Hated it. And, I've been devoting my life cuz I, I had this real, change in path when I was in the army that basically said I can keep trying to change the external circumstances where I can really work on me.
Tripp Johnson: And then I spent and I continue to spend a, a lot of my time working on me. And he said you build the, you helped me build this thing. I'll handle the business side, the marketing, all that. I'm good with that, but I just need you to help build a program and run a team. I've never had any leadership experience, so I need someone to help with that.
Tripp Johnson: So I came on as the CO and a co-founder in it. And I loved what we did because for me, That was [00:14:00] exactly the path I had been on. Like we were working with a lot of young adults that had similar situations, and I always say that if my family was not supportive of me and had resources.
Tripp Johnson: I probably should have gone to treatment. I probably, I could have been in a lot different legal situations and so the idea of, that was like I got to jump, I was in law school to figure out what I wanted to do, and then this opportunity to like just do what I wanted to do.
Tripp Johnson: Showed up at my doorstep. So I certainly wasn't any sort of like visionary, like I need to go fix. Young adult treatment or I need to provide something else. But I certainly resonated with it and I think the existential piece of growing up and the confusing pieces, especially now, I think it's even more confusing for 22 year olds now than it was when I was 22.
Tripp Johnson: I just really sympathize with the position these guys are in and that there is a, there's like a path out of it, but that it can be very difficult to navigate and especially when you have, substance use concerns, mental health concerns, but also you want to do things in life.
Tripp Johnson: It's not just, yeah, it's not just a [00:15:00] vacation. And certainly getting sober isn't a vacation, but. What we do is like really try and build people's, lives and so that they have purpose and meaning 
Graham Doerge: And clients are typically coming to Green Hill after completing some sort of like residential treatment 
Tripp Johnson: or something like that.
Tripp Johnson: So yeah, so Green Hill Transitional Living program, typically it's 18 to 28 year old male identified patients, and most of them are coming to us after having done at least 30, usually 90 days of treatment. Occasionally they'll come going through stabilization. Depending on what's going on.
Tripp Johnson: But yeah, they usually come work with us for six to nine months and then the goal is that we, we get 'em back into school, help them establish careers and really get integrated the community and in Raleigh because there's just so much to offer here. Yeah. And 
Graham Doerge: I love that. Obviously working with that population I like I can identify with it so cuz I was a young guy getting sober myself.
Graham Doerge: I was 26 when I went into treatment and for the first time probably should have gone a whole lot longer or earlier rather. [00:16:00] And I can identify as well with you said I was, I had annual legal issues just like every six months I had annual suspensions. Yeah. From boarding's schools. It was once a year.
Graham Doerge: I was, sent home for a couple weeks, and that's just how it went for three to four years. But I think that, with these young guys in particular, for me, when I was facing it, it was so daunting to think, oh my gosh, for the rest of my life, I cannot use these substances. And I wasn't married, I wasn't, there was all these life events that I was just, ugh how am I gonna do that?
Graham Doerge: What is that gonna be like? And, the reality was I was super fortunate because probably about halfway into treatment I had the awareness that, life is not over because I can't use these substances. It's just really beginning because look at all the amazing things I can do and started throwing myself into all this stuff, fly fishing and whatnot, and just finding really healthy, passionate, passionate hobbies.
Graham Doerge: And that's like your Ashtanga, that's your peace. That's what gets you going in the day, right? Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's so important for these young to make that connection for these young guys. And a lot of them just [00:17:00] they don't have the wherewithal to go there, 
Ryan Jarrell: especially today, and what, we're gonna be another podcast that talks about social media, right?
Ryan Jarrell: But the, the kids that, I see the kids, because I've worked at Green Hill previously, and these guys are looking on TikTok and they're seeing all their friends and they're smoking blunts and they're drinking all day and they're meeting cute girls and some guys telling 'em to do their laundry, right?
Ryan Jarrell: Make your 
Tripp Johnson: bad. And that is, Like 
Ryan Jarrell: Exactly. And that is like unambiguously a bad situation, right? Yeah. And the beauty of working at Green Hill and working with you guys is. What I really appreciated is it's not a one size fits all. It's not a cookie cutter type program. You will do individualized service and be able, not just to give this kid some order, but to be able to extend the kids some real compassion.
Ryan Jarrell: Yeah. Because I think we all, like the three of us all know how it is to be a kind of crappy 20 something year old kid, and we can have real honest compassion for that Absolutely. As a result. Yeah. Trip Greenhill Greenhill's an excellent program that's still like a centerpiece of the Raleigh recovery community.
Ryan Jarrell: But your company has similarly definitely had some changes over the years and I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the [00:18:00] expansion of services and like the through line that drove that. Yeah. Because you guys are much, you guys absolutely do fantastic transitional living and you guys do a lot more than that for the Raleigh 
Tripp Johnson: community.
Tripp Johnson: Yeah. So the this is where I can say I would definitely was not the visionary for Greenhill, but in, in working at Greenhill and really trying to build it I love what we could do. I always say if we could have bat a thousand on guys coming to Greenhill and having what we're gonna call as traditional success right out the gate, it's all I'd ever do.
Tripp Johnson: Yeah. Because it is the, it's the most rewarding population cuz you know, when you get a guy in young, early adulthood, Launching into a career, like there are so many wins that can be there. Yeah. And the ripple effect from the, that is incredible. No, it's so cool. Yeah. But the thing is everyone knows, like treatment doesn't just go well, yeah.
Tripp Johnson: It's not always gonna go well. I've always, as taken a pretty philosophical stance on things. And so I really. Green Hill had was doing its thing from a, a business perspective. [00:19:00] But I kept on running into these problems we had addressing the needs of our current clients and that was, I.
Tripp Johnson: Integrated care, like we needed psychiatry and just contracting with someone, even if they're the best psychiatrist in the world, doesn't mean that they're actually going to be communicating with the rest of your team like you need them. And so the first thing was like, at Green Hill needs to improve, and the next step is integrating care.
Tripp Johnson: Then I've been deeply influenced by the effect of altruist movement, which is under a little bit of flack right now with the whole Sam Bankman free thing. However, I think philosophically it's super important because just like I go back to one of my through lines is service and really wanting to do something for other people, but not just wanting to feel like we were trying to do good, but actually doing good.
Tripp Johnson: And how can you know? So effective altruism is all about how you can use your resources, being your time and your money to do the most good possible. And again, I love what we do with transitional living, but [00:20:00] that had it own limitations. And the thing that sucks the most about Green Hill and just private pay treatment in general is that there's a scarcity, there's a pervasive scarcity mindset, and it's very expensive.
Tripp Johnson: It's, you feel for these families who you wish you could help, but they just don't have the money. And so it became I got really interested in the insurance side of things and I really wanted to. Figure out if there was a way to work more with insurance and do psychiatry. And so that's the kind of genesis of where Adv, Vita Integrated Medicine, and now we're we're doing like a little rebranding and it's the Adv Vita Collective.
Tripp Johnson: Green Hill and Aim were set up originally as separate entities and now we brought the whole gang back together and running it as one collective integrated care. And really the idea of a recovery oriented system of care too. So there are multiple on ramps and all ramps in our system now.
Tripp Johnson: So guys who go through our transitional living may stay in the area, continue working with us on therapy and psychiatry and or people may start with us for, [00:21:00] finding a therapist or doing medication management and may end up in a different service. But that gives us a lot of flexibility to just meet people where they are, build rapport, and then really work to serve them.
Tripp Johnson: So that's I think that answers it 100%. 
Ryan Jarrell: And I gotta tell you, like I think being a part of that, as that opened up and working at Greenhill, one of the most amazing things was that we were having this totally holistic, comprehensive care where we were having weekly meetings, not only with therapists, but with the psychiatrist at the transitional living level.
Ryan Jarrell: And no one else can even tell how, what a fantastic service that is. And we weren't doing it to. Shout from the rooftops. Look at this amazing service. We didn't jack up prices as a result, we did it because you wanted to do it because it was the best way to do this care, and you wanted to do it the best way 
Graham Doerge: possible.
Graham Doerge: Yeah. There's such a need right now. No, obviously getting in to see a psychiatrist, getting to see a therapist is. Know, month, two month waiting list if you can get in at all. So I think that creating this when you did was so necessary. Yeah. Yeah. It really has been. It's been a great [00:22:00] resource for us and obviously we've sent a ton of clients over to aim and it's been fantastic.
Graham Doerge: So what are your kind of plans for the future? I know that you're always building and expanding and I know that you're very passionate about managed care and all that. Can you tell us a little bit more about what you're doing moving forward? 
Tripp Johnson: I think the first thing I'll say, and we can double click here if we want to at all, but last year was chaos.
Tripp Johnson: Last year, as as you both know from being now on, on the ground floor with two new organizations, Ryan, but the first year or two is just, you're figuring it out. You think, and then what's the mic tag? Like you get punched in the face and everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face.
Tripp Johnson: And there's I'm at this point I don't think you can start something new without taking a punch to the face. Yeah. Yeah. Especially when you're trying, I think as you all are trying to do here at New Waters too, like we're trying to do something better. Like it's not just a cookie cutter.
Tripp Johnson: It's not just, Hey, like we can do these services like this. We're actually. It's a very creative process of how can we make this happen? Yeah. And why aren't things done this way? And why aren't they, why isn't this the standard? And sometimes there's a [00:23:00] reason and sometimes there isn't sometimes reasons, like people are lazy and they got greedy and they figured out one business model and they're just replicating it.
Tripp Johnson: Yep. But other times there are reasons and you're like, man, I wish someone had told me that. So last year was chaos. So I'm trying to stay a little bit more grounded in terms of future directions right now. Certainly, We do have a few things. I say that and then I go into a laundry list of things.
Tripp Johnson: I know. We're gonna be starting a full model DBT program soon. Oh, cool. I'm working really hard with Blue Cross to come up with a unique billing code to, to help us do this and then for us to share data with them. To hopefully pilot it cuz this full model DBT is one of the most effective treatment.
Tripp Johnson: It's really the be has the best evidence base of anything in clinical work. And yet it's almost never done through insurance. And again, there are barriers for a reason around that because essentially insurance companies don't. Compensate you for those groups and the work it takes outside of it.
Tripp Johnson: So first thing coming up is full model D B T. Okay. We'll be finishing. We're licensed [00:24:00] for, we're not running a PHP level of care right now. We're probably going to start PHP as well as an ambulatory detox for people who meet that criteria. Maybe some point this year.
Tripp Johnson: We're finishing up our mental health licensure as well. So we will have the 1100 license in North Carolina, which means we'll be able to do PHP and i o p Don't see that happening right now. But the wellness concept is really what gets me, like I, I view. I, if as like I talk a lot about health insurance and the importance of doing things through health insurance, and I think a lot about behavioral health and its direction, but that's not my interest.
Tripp Johnson: My interest is in this notion of human flourishing and just that this is the system, this is the healthcare system we have. And so we wanna be able to tap into it to increase human flourishing. But a lot of what I hope to see in the future, I also more sober living, really thinking about supported living.
Tripp Johnson: As we talk about social media, I think a ton about how things are changing and [00:25:00] how so much is online now. And, which is great. I'm a huge technologist as well. But the real world is something that we all have to navigate. And I think housing, we have an affordable housing crisis. We also have just a supported housing crisis as well. There are a lot of people who need services and they're just not out there. So I'm thinking a lot about housing. I'm also interested, very interested in making some steps towards I want us to be one of the first people doing psychedelic assisted therapy legally in North Carolina.
Tripp Johnson: I think there's a lot of promise. I think it's funny because the guy who has a psychiatry practice now, right? Doesn't really like psychiatry very much, does. There was a great armchair expert episode that just came out. It basically says 10% of drugs work. Like 10%. And so maybe we change it a few times and we get there.
Tripp Johnson: But ultimately I think we're putting like way too much emphasis on the pharmacology aspect, not enough emphasis on social determinants of health and all of the [00:26:00] community stuff. Like I think we've gotten so disconnected and social media and technology. Only makes it more so that like we forget, like we're social primates, like we came outta the primordial stew. Yeah. Like we're animals and we forget that because we're now we're just on our phones and we forget about community and then all the things that used to bring us together and like the shared humanity. So I'm thinking a lot about like how do we advance a narrative of wellness, of human flourishing and leverage the healthcare system?
Tripp Johnson: Cuz that's what it's there for. Yeah. Yeah. There's not much going on. Yeah. No. Yeah. Just a little. Yeah. As you just said, I'm gonna slow 
Graham Doerge: down a little bit. 
Tripp Johnson: Yeah, a hundred percent. I'm curious guys 
Ryan Jarrell: and it's actually I think this is a good question for both of you, is business as we know it, especially post covid pandemic, like so many businesses have en endured these significant sea changes.
Ryan Jarrell: New technologies are disrupting everything. You guys are both CEOs for At least partially like substance use treatment places. And I'm wondering what kind of wider effects you guys see for the business at large 
Graham Doerge: coming up. [00:27:00] 
Tripp Johnson: Do you? At least in, I think we're, we can always follow the trends of Medicare and Medicaid, so I think we're actually a long way in behavioral health for, like everyone wants to talk about disruptive technology, adaptive learning curriculum.
Tripp Johnson: I think there's a lot of promise in it. But I just go back to, that's why I'm back to the real world. That's where I feel like, we need these third spaces. We need these places to get together. And we need we need good housing. I think we're going to see, in California now, I believe Medicaid's covering housing.
Tripp Johnson: I think we're gonna see a lot of trends like that. I think we're, I think we're actually about to, we're gonna see a pretty big sea change in how we are looking at care. But when I say look at, Medicare and Medicaid, what they're doing, they've done this integrated care for the past 20 years.
Tripp Johnson: And Private insurance and private programs haven't done it. So now we're under a lot of pressure as insurance, cuz 15 years ago you couldn't use your insurance for mental health or substance use treatment. So it was all private pay, that's all that existed. Now that insurance covers some of this [00:28:00] again, for better, for worse sometimes.
Tripp Johnson: But now that insurance covers it, there's a pressure because now there are more programs opening up doing providing substance use and mental health services. So I think we're gonna see a big shift in integrated care. I think it's going to become pretty common. I think what we're doing right now, what, like what I'm doing isn't actually unique.
Tripp Johnson: It's just more unique in, in this setting. So I think we're gonna see a lot of integration between primary care and behavioral health. And then I do think we're gonna see a lot of shifts in how we're How we're looking at the future. I think 10. I don't think the healthcare system will adapt as quickly as it should, but AI's already more powerful than.
Tripp Johnson: All of us. So I think it's like foolish to think that it's probably not better at algorithmic thinking than we are. But I think we're gonna need community. And I think behavioral health, like the best behavioral health organizations in 15 or 20 years are gonna be, managing a massive amounts of individualized data.
Tripp Johnson: And they're gonna be providing community both for.[00:29:00] The people that they're serving and for their teams. And I think that piece is how like organizations are gonna continue to adapt and change. But I think this idea that we have to see a doctor or a therapist for exactly, I think that's all gonna change.
Tripp Johnson: Fee for service models are gonna change. But ultimately people need people and places to go. So I think like we're also in the best, Healthcare is 20% of GDP almost. They're their beha, mental health, behavioral health, substance use. It's only going to continue rising with as we become a more, individualized society and living on our phones and.
Tripp Johnson: Soon everyone's gonna be doing their Apple VR sets and scary, then it's all over. 
Graham Doerge: And I think there's so much more awareness right now too, right? And everybody is, just having these conversations. 10 years ago people weren't having these conversations, and that's the reality.
Graham Doerge: And now everybody knows there's just so many more tools out there. Yes. We're. A lot more fucked up than we were, part of my language. But we, also have a lot more tools, I think, and there's a lot more resources, which [00:30:00] is great. But in my, I love like connection is everything, right?
Graham Doerge: Connection is recovery, right? In my opinion. And And, I'm really of, from the school of, I really think that the smaller more kind of boutique model of programming is really more effective. So I think that we're gonna see, just talking about headwinds.
Graham Doerge: We've seen so much private equity money come into this field and, these organizations, a lot of these smaller programs are getting gobbled up by these larger entities and all that and creating these. Monster healthcare companies. And it's just really hard to do really good treatment when you've got 900 beds across the country.
Graham Doerge: Yeah. It just is, man. We have 31 beds here at New Waters and every day you like, you have no idea what is really gonna be happening day to day. And there's so many variables all the time. And you have to have a really. Incredible team to manage all that stuff.
Graham Doerge: And if you've got, 900 beds, I can't even wrap my head around how you would manage something like that, my hope is that, people will really wisen up to the quality of care in a lot of instances. And I think we do the really [00:31:00] good job with that.
Graham Doerge: And hopefully people get connected with organizations like ours who can help them navigate the complexities of all this stuff, Absolutely. Good question, Lee. Yeah, 
Ryan Jarrell: I think one of the things that stands out about both these places and it really is both and I think that's very special, especially in a detox setting, is we get a community that's built.
Ryan Jarrell: Yeah. And there are guys, green Hill is the only home that they felt safe. Yeah. And we're a seven day detox and people are calling us three months later just to ask how we're doing or they're sending us candy and stuff like that, or we can't get 'em outta here. Yeah. That's also maybe a current difficulty that we have right now, but 
Tripp Johnson: But 
Graham Doerge: it's, am I gonna have a TV where I'm going in my room?
Graham Doerge: It's not happening. We do 
Ryan Jarrell: spoil 'em sometimes for the next level of care. When will I get my phone? You'll never get your phone. Not at all. But that we build a community and that we're able to participate positively in, in these people's lives. It really is. I. I think more and more as I work in this industry more and more, I think what a true blessing it is to be able to do that for a living, 
Graham Doerge: Yeah. And I think too, that, like you were, you and Ben and your crew and Louis Finch and, all of you guys who opened your programs, within the last kind [00:32:00] of. 10 years, there really wasn't a whole lot here before then. No. If anything, yeah.
Graham Doerge: And you guys have really built this recovery field or behavioral health, model here in, in Raleigh. And it's and you guys had a lot to do with why we opened new orders here, and I had a relationship with you prior to, and Louis was always telling me, you gotta do this, you gotta do this.
Graham Doerge: And, finally we were able to make it happen. But but yeah, it's just, it's really cool to see everything that you guys have built here and you're and the reason one of the. Other reasons I wanted to start this here was because it's such a collaborative, area. And and everybody has really good intentions.
Graham Doerge: Everybody. Not everybody but everybody that we work with for the most part is, super ethical and and it's just doing this work for all the right reasons. Yeah. And and it's not just getting people in the door. Yeah. It's, what is gonna serve this client best.
Graham Doerge: And, we're sending clients all over the country because, that's what we need to do to set them up with a good trajectory forward. Absolutely. This has been great to catch up with you and chat here. Thank you for coming in today, trip and where can everybody find your [00:33:00] information and 
Tripp Johnson: we can go to trip j.com, t r ipp j.com if you want some of the personal musings and also some behind the scenes looks at what we're doing at the invite a collective.
Tripp Johnson: And then there's aim wellbeing.com and greenhill recovery.com if you're looking for our specific programs. Great. 
Graham Doerge: Yeah, and we're gonna have all the all his information on the show notes. Obviously everything will be Put up on all streaming platforms and you can find us at finding new waters.com.
Graham Doerge: Thanks so much and we will talk to you guys next week. Thank y'all.

Question 2

Show Notes

Accepted Answer

In this podcast episode, Tripp Johnson, Co-founder and CEO of the Invita Collective, is the guest. Johnson's Invita Collective includes Aim Wellbeing and Green Hill Recovery, organizations that provide care and support for people struggling with substance abuse and mental health issues. The podcast hosts are Graham Doerge, co-founder of New Waters, and Ryan Jarrell, COO of Green Hill Recovery.

The podcast begins with Johnson describing his background and his journey into the field of behavioral health. He shares his experience of moving from the finance industry to addiction recovery and mental health, spurred by his personal experiences and his passion for helping others. He highlights how the Invita Collective is working to integrate mental health and substance use care to provide more comprehensive and effective treatments.

Johnson then discusses the effects of COVID-19 on mental health, substance use, and treatment centers. He shares the challenges faced in providing care during the pandemic and highlights the potential silver lining, the acceleration of telemedicine and virtual care, which has increased access to mental health services.

Following this, Johnson talks about how his company is leveraging data to personalize and improve care. He explains that they use data to identify risk factors, predict outcomes, and adapt treatments to each person's unique needs. However, he also emphasizes that human connection and empathy cannot be replaced by algorithms.

In the final part of the conversation, Johnson predicts future trends in healthcare. He anticipates a shift towards integrated care, greater integration between primary care and behavioral health, and an increase in mental and behavioral health as a part of the GDP. He also expects changes in fee-for-service models and a move towards handling individualized data.Graham Doerge and Ryan Jarrell both emphasize the importance of community and connection in recovery.

They discuss the difficulties of managing many clients and the need for strong teams and effective management. They appreciate the collaborative and ethical atmosphere in their field and stress on doing what's best for the client, even if it means sending them elsewhere for treatment.

#MentalHealth, #SubstanceAbuse, #IntegratedCare, #Healthcare, #BehavioralHealth, #Trauma, #AIinHealthcare, #Insurance, #Community, #Depression, #Anxiety, #DomesticViolence, #DigitalTherapy, #COVID19, #Recovery, #PrimaryCare, #QuarantineEffects, #Telehealth, #IndividualizedData, #MentalHealthAwareness.

Tripp Johnson Links:
⁠https://www.trippj.com/⁠(https://www.trippj.com/)
⁠https://www.instagram.com/trippjohnson88/⁠(https://www.instagram.com/trippjohnson88/)
⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/trippjohnson88/⁠(https://www.linkedin.com/in/trippjohnson88/)
⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/green-hill-recovery/⁠(https://www.linkedin.com/company/green-hill-recovery/)
⁠https://greenhillrecovery.com/⁠(https://greenhillrecovery.com/)
⁠https://aimwellbeing.com/⁠(https://aimwellbeing.com/)

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Navigating the Future of Behavioral Health with Tripp Johnson