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Finding New Waters is a podcast exploring addiction complexities. Personal stories and expert interviews offer understanding of challenges and hope for recovery. It's a safe space to comprehend addiction's impact on individuals, families, and the community. Watch & Listen Subscribe A Podcast dedicated to exploring the complexities of addiction, recovery, detox and the journey to a healthier lifestyle. New Episodes Every Week | Subscribe Today Finding New Waters Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video New Episode | Start Watching Sam Quinones: The Stories Behind America’s Drug Epidemic Sam Quinones Subscribe Finding New Waters is a podcast dedicated to exploring the complexities of addiction, recovery and the journey to a healthier lifestyle. Through interviews with experts, personal stories, and resources, we aim to provide an understanding of the challenges faced by those struggling with addiction and inspire hope for those in recovery. Our podcast is a safe space for people to gain a greater understanding of addiction and its effects on individuals, families, and the community. + More Info

Join us on "Finding New Waters" as Shauna Vick shares his inspiring story < Back to Episodes Embracing Imperfection: Bob Goodale's Journey to Emotional Sobriety 35:24min | Bob Goodale | Finding New Waters In this inspiring episode, we delve into the life and recovery journey of Bob Goodale, a former Harris Teeter CEO and a prominent figure in the recovery community. Bob shares his insights on the importance of embracing imperfection, the transformative power of the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, and the pivotal role of emotional sobriety in leading a fulfilling life. Subscribe "The minute we were powerless over alcohol, our life was unmanageable." -Bob Goodale Transcript Bob Goodale Bob Goodale: [00:00:00] There are 12 steps in the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. And the first step is the minute we were powerless over alcohol. Our life was unmanageable. I never, I got, you know, that's still a problem. You still have lots of, I'm, you know, I'm wildly imperfect, still am. And that's, but that's the beauty of it being wild. Because if we were all perfect, it wouldn't be worth being here, you know? I mean, that's what, that's the goodness of it is our imperfection. But anyway. So I got this realized that we, that I was powerless over alcohol. That was a no brainer. I saw that when I went to treatment, I saw that and I said, wow, that's the deal. And I never had, and I couldn't drink like anybody else, but I had never switched that to, that I was powerless over it.[00:01:00] B. Reeves: Good afternoon, everybody. My name is B Reeves. I'm the director of business development here at New Waters Recovery with my colleague and friend, Thomas Hogshead, who is our director of admissions and director of operations. And our good friend Bob Goodell here, who is a local, I'd say more than a local legend in the recovery community. And I've got a partial bio of Bob, but I'm going to read just to get us started. And this is from his, the board of, is a member of the board of trustees from healing transitions. Bob Goodale is a former Harris Teter CEO and former NC deputy secretary of commerce. In addition to his past service on the healing transitions board of directors and current service on the board of [00:02:00] trustees, Bob serves on the board of directors of pivot point, WNC pavilion and the alcohol and drug council of North Carolina. Where he also served as president. He previously served on the Hanley Hazelden Foundation Board of Directors, Hazelden National Advisory Committee, Hazelden, New York City Advisory Board. North Carolina Department of Corrections Substance Abuse Advisory Board, Rebound Charlotte Board of Directors, Amethyst Foundation, Chairman of the Board, and the Charlotte Treatment Center Board of Directors and Capital Campaign Chairman. Bob served in the Army after receiving a BS degree from Iowa State University. He also received an MBA from the University of Kansas. Bob is a recipient of the Order of the Longleaf Pine. His other honors include the Trotter Black Award, Hope Haven Charlotte for his unique contributions in the field of recovery, and the Order of the Hornet [00:03:00] Mecklenburg County, North Carolina Board of County Commissioners highest award. Bob's story of addiction recovery is told in Second Chances by Gary Stromberg. Welcome, Bob. Thank you so much for being here. And we are so glad to have you and be talking to you today. Wow, Bob Goodale: that's long. B. Reeves: What's happened since Bob Goodale: then? What have you been up to? Well, that went back to golly, a long ways. Yeah, too long. I wrote it. Yeah, well. I get that. It's good to be here. Well, we're glad to have you. Great to be here, Bay. Great to be here, Thomas. Well, B. Reeves: Tell us a little bit just about how you found yourself in the world of recovery. What, you know, kind of, we talked about what we were like, what happened and what we're like now, you know, give us a little Bob Goodale: bit of that. The big thing is that all those, All that stuff about, you know, what I did professionally and but the biggest thing that happened to me is I stopped drinking in 1972, I don't say I got sober by the way, because nobody gets sober on their first day. [00:04:00] I say I stopped drinking and because you know, I began to get really emotionally sober is what it's about. And so I'll, I just want to start there because that's the big deal is being emotional and I didn't begin to find that maybe for 20 years. Wow. We'll talk about that maybe some, but yeah I had to stop because I couldn't quit. And, it was, it is hilarious as we know, it's our stories. I I was I was just, you know, falling downwards. I was spiritually, I was bankrupt in every way except financially. And I it was getting worse and worse. And I as president of the PTA. You know, my wife and I were president of the PCA, and I was just out there, you know. So, I wanted to I wanted to [00:05:00] see the bishop because I had problems, and then rather than go to my, you know, p Episcopal parish priest. I went to see the bishop and I said that I had a couple things I want to talk to him about. So over lunch in Omaha, they're one of their finest steakhouses I said I had two problems. One was problems with my marriage and the other. The other was that I couldn't drink like other people. And over three martinis apiece, we agreed that we would work on the marriage first. Six months later, after running the car off a road, in Omaha, flames burnt, you know, in Stubblefield. Late at night or early in the morning flames all around the car. And ran off the fire department came, ran off again. I called him up and I said, I got to do something. He said, place just opened up here in Omaha. And he says, I'll call him. And so down I went. I was number seven. The bishop was number 46. And that's how it began. Well, I [00:06:00] thought it was about not drinking. Right. See, I thought it was about non drinking, so I was a two stepper for a long time. And it's and so, I was, I know what being restless, irritable, and discontented is. The closer you were to me, the more you knew that. You wouldn't have known it otherwise. But and I just was, I was too stubborn. What B. Reeves: changed 20 years in of, would you say you were a dry junk, dry drunk for 20 years? Bob Goodale: Yeah. Yeah. What changed? I know the difference. Well, it was that I got lucky and was just figured out, it was presented to me that success was not about power and money. Wow! How long until you found a sponsor, Bob? Well, I got, well, I'm, I got a sponsor. I began, when I became CEO of Harris Teeter, I thought that would fix me, by the way. I thought, because that's what I aspire to, and it didn't. That day was not a good day. So the next day I found myself going [00:07:00] to a meeting at the Randolph Clinic in Charlotte. And I knew it when I walked in, like we hear all the time, you know, that's where I needed to be. And I would check in periodically, whenever we moved around, I'd check in immediately, but, you know. And so I I started to go, going amazing, and I got a sponsor, but you know. I got a friend, we would have coffee, you know, there are sponsors and there are sponsors. So, and so, I got a sponsor and I started going to you know, started showing up. And that was 85, so that was, 13 years in or something like that. And but then I I so I started showing up. Osmosis was occurring, I'll say. You know, I was showing up. And so part of my two steps, it was really two and a fraction, you know. Half of the first and all the second, middle third, the twelfth, [00:08:00] and half of the eleventh, and some of that stuff. And Will you explain, B. Reeves: though, in further detail what the two step, two stepping Bob Goodale: means? Oh, yeah, sure. People don't know the difference. So, there are twelve steps. In the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. And the first step is, the minute we were powerless over alcohol, our life was unmanageable. I never, I got, you know, that's still a problem. I still have lots of, I'm, you know, I'm wildly imperfect. Still am. And that's, but that's the beauty of it being, well, because if we were all perfect, it wouldn't be worth being here, you know, I mean, that's what, that's the goodness of it is our imperfections. But anyway, so I got this realized that we, that I was powerless over alcohol. That was a no brainer. I saw that when I went to treatment. I saw that and I said, wow, that's the deal. And I never had, I couldn't drink like anybody else, but I had never switched [00:09:00] that to. that I was powerless over it. I wanted to drink like other people. I want advice on how to do that or what to do about it. So I got that. And and the second step is can believe that only a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. And I was nuts. I was crazy. I mean, it was bad, crazy. Well, it's good, crazy but too much bad, crazy. Oh, wow. And and when I saw that, I said, Ooh, yes. So there's where the, that's a kind of a step and a half, if you will, but we call that the first two steps and don't go on from there. And so if we don't get into the spiritual part, you know. And if we don't get into examining our character defects and and working the rest of the steps, then we are [00:10:00] stuck. At being dry and and that's not a good, I mean, it's a better place to be because you I stayed, what I did is I stayed dry long enough to begin to get sober. Yeah. That was the deal and I wasn't going to pick up. It wasn't, that was never an issue because I was, because I, The consequences were, you know, I missed the decade of the sixties. I knew that I'm still trying to catch up. So, so that was that's the whole deal. It's not, you know, sobriety is different than abstinence. And I know the difference. And boy, is it something else. It's unbelievable. And it gets, it keeps getting better. I'm 90 years old and it keeps getting better. So, I mean, if B. Reeves: there's an example of someone living his life to the fullest, I would point to you. Yeah. I Thomas Hogshead: mean, [00:11:00] Bob's zest for life. It's contagious. You know, the people that know you in the recovery community, you are revered. You're a champion. And it's Bob Goodale: It's pretty amazing. Well, it is. It's, yeah, it is. B. Reeves: So you, I've known you just for a few years and in the few years I've known you, I've seen you, I haven't seen you do it in person, but I've seen pictures and video of you doing it. So you've repelled, tell us what you've done with the repelling down the Wells Bob Goodale: Fargo building. Well, so this, so the whole thing was just realizing that I'm wildly imperfect. But I'm also happy, joyous, and free. And that's the result of being emotionally sober, increasing the emotionally sober life in my periods. You know, of course, but it's far from that. You know, I'm sad. But when I say, you know, moments. B. Reeves: Even though you were very successful in business and even for a period you were dry, not drinking. But you were still unable to be present even [00:12:00] without the drink because of the Bob Goodale: ism was still cooking. Well, yeah. I mean, I was not, I mean, let's say the potential, you know, I learned a lot. Found out what's, I found out what to do by finding out what not to do. Found out what worked by finding out what. Didn't work. And so I was able to stay dry long enough. So I say to everybody, don't do what I did. Don't wait. Work on the, work on emotional sobriety. It's not just about not drinking, not using, because life is unbelievable. When you when you're able to live it to its fullest. I was B. Reeves: six months sober and I was in New York and I went to the same meeting every day at this place called Perry Street Workshop. And I heard a different person every day say this over three days. I came for my drinking, I stayed for my thinking. And that, I think that [00:13:00] totally sums it up for me. Of all the cliches and slogans we hear in recovery, that to me is what it's all about. And my thinking is my emotional sobriety. Bob Goodale: That's right. You know? Yeah, I think about it all the time. Yeah. B. Reeves: So what have you seen from somebody who's been around 50 years, interested in recovery, been to a lot of meetings, you've been on the board? Board of several treatment centers. What do you see as how things have changed for the good, for the bad? What do you, what are your thoughts on the treatment landscape? Not just recovery itself, but specifically treatment? Bob Goodale: Well, there's, when I, so comparing it to so I have to compare it to 1972 . And , it's light years different than it is now, and it's going to be light years different fifty years from now. It's moving in that direction. So, so, I, so I went to treatment. It was a twenty eight day [00:14:00] program. They kept me for six weeks. I'm sure that they thought when they, You know, finally said that I'd be back or, you know, I'd be out or one way or the other. Because they knew enough about what I was hiding. So they knew I was hiding. That's it. They didn't know about what I was hiding. And and so there wasn't any, there wasn't any you know, get a sponsor. It was the obligatory fourth and fifth. And my obligatory forth, you know, all I wanted to do was head right to the to go home and have an admitting fit, you know, change the lives of others. Forever. And so, so that's I just hopped right to that. To make amends, except when, but I didn't read that, except when Medusa went injured there by others. You see, I liked I the words like exact and all and, you know, and the [00:15:00] other part of it, like my life was unmanageable. I didn't, I only got was, I was powerless over alcohol. So I, well, why would I didn't have a sponsor to direct? me. So I wasn't led that way, I wasn't, we weren't taken to any meetings or anything like that. So that's, I mean, of course, it's a lot different now. Who would have believed, for example, that anything like New Waters? I mean, the police, you know? That's, that wasn't even a dream. Yeah. In that B. Reeves: light, like working Thomas Hogshead: with others, Bob, like I, I met you back in 2008 through the late great Fred Barber, and your ability to work with others at Healing Transitions and those men and those women is so profound that your impact on them you still go down there quite a Bob Goodale: bit and It's much, well, I, it'll never be often enough. I have, I've always had, I've always liked to have friends who didn't. Think like me look like [00:16:00] me some talk like me and I mean this, I'm like, I travel a lot I've had the opportunity to go places or smell like me. Always had a big, that's why I'm so drawn to you guys. Anyway, so, but you don't have to go, you don't have to travel far, I mean, it's it's. It's just, I just cannot, because the miracles that you see, I mean, that you see that you're involved in, that you witness, that you're a part of that sometimes happen to you, they're just, it's just a half a latch. And that's where. I just, so it's part of being happy, joyous, and free as you can do, as I can do that. Yeah, and what you said about people B. Reeves: not, don't look like me. I mean, I remember when I first found, got home from treatment and was going to meetings and I would see somebody who [00:17:00] walked in and looked like he was about my age and kind of dressed like me and looked like me and I'd be like, Oh, that guy will be my new best buddy and recovery. You know, and it was pretty rare that person and I had anything in common and then I would, you know, be at a meeting and hear like a, you know, an old lady who was a crackhead and she would say something that I related to more than anything I'd ever heard in my life, you know, and it's a great example of, you know, identifying with instead of comparing to and And that it trans, this transcends everything, you know? Bob Goodale: Well, I call it that, that I just get more and more material, not necessarily material to you know, to relate to all those, you know, but just I sometimes, not often, I'll be in a place and I'll, I will, and the other day, as a matter of fact, right over, not far from here. At Costco, I was picking up some water, and I met a guy who helped me a lot, uh, who works there, Ben, and we [00:18:00] started laughing, and, and so I was sitting in the car and I was laughing. And then And the laugh broke into a cry because I realized how lucky, how is this possible? How is it possible? It happens to me all the time. It's just, I'm able to go out in places that I never would have imagined even five years ago that I'd be. Sometimes it's a homeless camp and I'm and I'm witnessing unconditional love and I'm saying to myself, how the hell, how is this possible that I'm here? And it's it's very moving to me. And so because, so it's like you want more of that, right? And so that's. Yeah. Having Thomas Hogshead: seen that in action, Bob, people do gravitate towards you in meetings and social settings. I think. I think your [00:19:00] laughter is a big Bob Goodale: part of that. Well, that's genetic. I can go back to I didn't know my grandfather. He died when I, but I, but he was a storyteller and then I had an aunt that, so I mean, so that's but it just is because it's. It's it's just, it's a great way to be. B. Reeves: I know the exact feeling you're talking about. The part laugh, part cried. I never experienced it until recovery, you know, sobriety. Where I was driving on January 2nd of, I think, 2020. I was a year and a half sober. I was driving to work after I'd been trying to lose, I'd been losing weight for about a year and a half since I got sober. And I was determined to get to below 200 pounds. And on New Year's Day, I woke up and I weighed exactly 200 pounds. So close. I was shaving and blowing my nose and trying to lose 0. 1 pounds, just mocking me. It's still at 200 pounds. So the next day I had to be at work and I was going to the gym every [00:20:00] morning, driving in the dark. And I got up on January 2nd to drive to work, to go to the gym at my office and then go to work. And I got, I woke up and I weighed one 99. 1 and I just thought, yes. And then I got in the car to drive out there driving in the dark on I 40 on January 2nd. Nobody's on the road. And just broke down in total tears, but also laughing at the same time. It was what I could only describe as pure joy and the joy of living. And it wasn't just that I had gotten to this weight loss goal, but it was everything that how my life had completely changed. And it was all due to Bob Goodale: the 12 steps. Yeah. Well, so speaking of exercise, so, I was in Charlotte and I was, you know, I was restless, irritable, and discontented. My wife recognized that. And so I was doing a I'd been a gym rat growing up. And so here it is. 20 years later and well, it's almost 30 years later, and my wife made an appointment for me down at the Charlotte [00:21:00] Y, and I, that's where I discovered endorphins. Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Oh, man, so I go in the morning and I go at night. And so here I was, you know, this this CEO of Harris Tierney, we moved our office down and, Now? No, Charlotte. But anyway, say it was about 20 minutes from downtown, maybe 25 from the center, from the downtown wine. That's where I went. So I would leave work dressed like you did in the, you know, in the eighties. I would leave work and and I would arrive. Absolutely ready to go to the six o'clock class. In other words, for a person this time, on the busiest street in Charlotte, North Carolina, I was naked. This is part of still being crazy, you know? I was too, I was a good kind of, well, maybe [00:22:00] good kind of crazy. It was, but that's an endorphin. So I'm still, you know, I'm a gym rat. And That's continued to be. I still love those indulgences, so. Thomas Hogshead: I agree. Bob, clearly you've been influential on many. Who could you share with us that has been deeply influential on yourself? Oh, Bob Goodale: Fred Barber, you know. Sure, Fred Barber. And Fred was, Thomas Hogshead: Instrumental in founding Healing Transitions. Yeah, Bob Goodale: Fred Barber. And, so I have lots of folks that I, Want to pay attention to I mean I go to two three sometimes four meetings a week still do and I go You know because I'm it's a community of friends and I go because I'm gone You know, it's I'm always gonna pick up something So I have a number of folks Who are important to me [00:23:00] in the community or you know in recovery That so it's a pretty long list, but I can look back at Fred. I feel him tapping on my shoulder often, and I like that. I like that. It's kind of what, it's kind of what would, you know, B. Reeves: you know, I'm sure you've heard this way more than I or Thomas or anybody, but you know, when people, I don't get asked as much, but I feel like this is one of those kind of legends we hear about in AA or stories that. Like a UFO anecdote. You still going to those meetings? You still need to go to those meetings? And, you know, you're nine years old, 50 plus years sober, and you're still going. I mean, that, that's just testament to we don't have to go, we get to go because we love going. You Bob Goodale: know? What what better to do? You know? I mean, it's anyway, it's it's pretty special. Yeah. Well, we B. Reeves: saw some video of you flying a plane recently. Will you tell us [00:24:00] about that? Bob Goodale: Well, yes, I I had an opportunity on the 21st of December to go to Norfolk with a a friend who whose daughter, and I went with the daughter too, is a third year at the Air Force Academy. And for her Christmas present, her parents had given her this opportunity to to go to fly one of these, and she flies. She had her pilot's license before she had her driver's license, and she's going to be a pilot. So the question there, her dad, who's a, who's also a pilot and she's going to be a fighter pilot, you know, that right away, but she has to choose between fighters and bombers, that this would be a good experience because he did it as part of his training and recently. And so what this is an airplane that's built for acrobatics. It only weighs 1, 350 pounds. Think about this. Powered by a 300 horsepower motor. There's a front seat and a back seat, a canopy that [00:25:00] you could, that's as clean as any. Canopy, you can imagine. And and so there's an hour briefing and then she's going up for an hour. And so I, on the, so he couldn't go, he couldn't take her in their plane. I said, well, I will, near Charlotte. And you don't have to take her. She can take herself, but just to be with her. And then it occurred to me, he couldn't go and then he couldn't. And so then I was going to do that. That well, I'm gonna go on the second date. I was thinking about it. I said, well, I wanna go and so. And so, I asked them and they said, sure. Well, it turned out that the I wanna go was just flying there in their plane because there's just two seats. . So I thought, well, that was a bit of a disappointment, but I didn't say anything. But she's up for, she's, I mean, she's gonna go the whole hour. I mean, we're talking about stalls and loopty loops and flying upside down. All the things that you see at air shows and, her [00:26:00] dad said, do you want to go up? And of course, I said, absolutely. I want that adrenaline, you know. And so, so up we went. And so, and I had the stick. So I was in the front and he was in the back. Had a parachute on, by the way. And they give you, that's part of the drill, take everything out of your pockets like you do when you go to the fair. And away we went. And he said, now take the stick. So I'm, you know, I got the stick. And he said, all right, because we're going to do barrel rolls. And so we did two barrels and I'm hollering and shouting, you know, all the time because it was unbelievable. And so. So they asked for, when I, so there's a video that you've seen and so they said, they asked for permission to use that in their social media. Of course I got that. So it was, but that's the part of the deal being happy, joyous, and free and being. [00:27:00] You know, of being interested in in adventure and, you know, not being crazy about it, I guess, but maybe and also it's just to show that it's to show that Maybe, not maybe, but a mission to show that being old doesn't mean that you just have to mildew. You know, I mean, if you want to build birdhouses, that's fine, or do puzzles, that's fine. You know, and we, so it's an example, like at the gym you know, I do, I can do stuff that's, you know, get on a BOSU ball. That's kind of unusual, but it's because I can. That's part of being happy, joyous, and free, is to find out what you can do and what works. So anyway. That's awesome. Thomas Hogshead: So, Bob, is there anything on the bucket list that remains that we should Bob Goodale: be aware of [00:28:00] upcoming? People, I get asked every once in a while, what's on your bucket list? And my answer is tomorrow. Right on. That's it. That's a B. Reeves: great answer. One day at a time, we can Bob Goodale: get through today, then there's tomorrow. Some folks ask me, well, you know, how'd you do it? You know? Yeah. I say I didn't die. Yeah, I've heard you there, But the fact is that, you know, I did so, so just to recap here, that it's not about just being dry, right? Just quitting. Just, you know, is that's just. That's not, it is a beginning. The wonderful part of it is to embrace something like the Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and its brethren, and embrace seeking emotional sobriety, understanding the [00:29:00] spiritual nature of recovery, and, uh, and embracing it, and learning, and growing in it. That's the deal. Don't stop. Just Quitting. Just stopping. Yeah. Thomas Hogshead: And I think we're deeply fortunate in the Raleigh area to have so many meetings, to have so many treatment facilities, to have so many people that are doing the deal and inspirational to the newcomer. Bob Goodale: It's just a community a communities of folks. That you know, the one thing that I like, stick with the winners. Yeah. There are lots of winners. Yeah. And that's part of, you know, we talked about before. Folks, man, I wanna be able to listen. Wanna be next to I go I go to, I'll go to a sweat lodge tonight and there's, there are people there that I want, that I don't see otherwise that I wanna sit next to. Just because they're fun [00:30:00] and they teach me they teach me to think about things and say things that I. I've never thought about before and that's something else. I B. Reeves: mean, I love to hear that man, 90 years old, he's still out seeking and learning and wanting to learn. It's, I, this is your, you're in a, we're not here just to blow your boat. This is, you have no idea how Bob Goodale: inspiring this is. It is. See me in a sweat lodge. I need so much help even getting in. I don't want to see any video of that. Just like we were talking about before. People say to me, Oh, you don't look like you're 90. I say, well, you watch me walk. So, anyway. Thomas Hogshead: Well, this has been a great job. I think it would be nice in closing. If a newcomer came up to you today in a meeting, you know, and he said, Bob, I need help. It's, I'm [00:31:00] in early recovery and I'm struggling. What words of wisdom would you share with him that, Bob Goodale: Well, tell him I experienced strength and hope. That's what we're supposed to do. But, you know, it's you're never going to be lied to. You know, come join us and stick, and just, and also, I always want to have an, have a depth of a conversation. It doesn't have to be, you know, terribly long. When I say terribly long, I mean, it can be three or four minutes to be able to look someone and tell them I love them. Give him a hug and you can't beat that. Well, we love you, Bob. We do love you, Bob. We do. The community loves you. Love you. Thanks sir. Thanks. Thank you so much for doing. It's been a lot of fun. Yeah. We're better off with B. Reeves: you than we are without . Bob Goodale: This has been a treat. Thank you. Amen. Thank you. So [00:32:00] thank. Show Notes In this inspiring episode, we delve into the life and recovery journey of Bob Goodale, a former Harris Teeter CEO and a prominent figure in the recovery community. Bob shares his insights on the importance of embracing imperfection, the transformative power of the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, and the pivotal role of emotional sobriety in leading a fulfilling life. **Key Points Discussed:** - Bob's realization of his powerlessness over alcohol and the significance of admitting imperfection as a step towards recovery. - The impact of emotional sobriety, which Bob emphasizes is much more than just abstaining from alcohol. - The evolution of Bob's career and his continuous contributions to the recovery community through various board memberships and philanthropic efforts. - Bob's adventurous spirit, as showcased by his activities such as repelling down buildings and flying planes, underscoring the joy and freedom found in recovery. **Guest Bio:** Bob Goodale, former CEO of Harris Teeter and NC Deputy Secretary of Commerce, is celebrated for his remarkable journey from addiction to a beacon of hope within the recovery community. With a history of extensive service on boards like Healing Transitions and the Alcohol and Drug Council of North Carolina, Bob's story is one of transformation, service, and continuous growth. **Resources Mentioned:** - Healing Transitions: ⁠healing-transitions.org⁠(http://healing-transitions.org/) - Alcoholics Anonymous:⁠aa.org⁠(http://aa.org/) - Book "Second Chances" by Gary Stromberg, featuring Bob's story. **Closing Thoughts:** Bob Goodale's life story is a testament to the power of recovery, community, and continuous personal growth. His message to embrace imperfection and seek emotional sobriety offers profound insights for anyone on the path to recovery or in pursuit of a more meaningful life. Podcast Website: ⁠⁠https://www.findingnewwaters.com⁠ (https://www.findingnewwaters.com/)New Waters Recovery Website: ⁠⁠https://newwatersrecovery.com⁠W(https://newwatersrecovery.com/)atch & Listen on Spotify: ⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw?si=f485f70900204da4⁠A(https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw?si=f485f70900204da4)pple Podcast: ⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608⁠⁠(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608) Youtube: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw⁠ (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw)Youtube Music: ⁠https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn&feature=share⁠ (https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn&feature=share)Google Podcast: ⁠https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9kZmI2YTk3NC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw⁠ (https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9kZmI2YTk3NC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw?authuser=0)Follow Us on Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery⁠ (https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery)Facebook: ⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery⁠⁠(https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery) Linkedin: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery⁠T(https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery)iktok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc⁠ (https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc)For more information, to submit a question for our show, or to explore our affiliated detox center, visit the Finding New Waters website at ⁠⁠https://www.findingnewwaters.com⁠⁠(https://www.findingnewwaters.com/) and the New Waters Recovery Center at ⁠⁠https://newwatersrecovery.com⁠⁠(https://newwatersrecovery.com/). Join us on this transformative journey!

In this episode of *Finding New Waters*, we sit down with Fritz Deichert, a recovery coach and interventionist based in Dallas, Texas. Fritz shares his powerful story of addiction, recovery, and the difference between simply being sober and truly living in recovery. < Back to Episodes Breaking Free from Addiction and Staying Free with Fritz Deichert 39:05 min | Fritz Deichert | Finding New Waters In this episode of *Finding New Waters*, we sit down with Fritz Deichert, a recovery coach and interventionist based in Dallas, Texas. Fritz shares his powerful story of addiction, recovery, and the difference between simply being sober and truly living in recovery. He discusses his work with young men struggling with addiction and failure to launch, emphasizing the importance of connection, structure, and meeting people where they are. With years of experience and a deep personal connection to his work, Fritz offers insights into what it really takes to sustain long-term recovery and personal transformation. Subscribe "Being sober is just the first step—true recovery is about how you show up in life every day." – Fritz Deichert Show Notes In this episode of *Finding New Waters*, we sit down with Fritz Deichert, a recovery coach and interventionist based in Dallas, Texas. Fritz shares his powerful story of addiction, recovery, and the difference between simply being sober and truly living in recovery. He discusses his work with young men struggling with addiction and failure to launch, emphasizing the importance of connection, structure, and meeting people where they are. With years of experience and a deep personal connection to his work, Fritz offers insights into what it really takes to sustain long-term recovery and personal transformation. --- ### **Timestamps:** - **[00:00] Introduction**: Welcoming Fritz Deichert and setting the stage for the conversation. - **[02:00] The Power of Resilience**: A personal story of a chaotic weekend that tested patience and recovery. - **[08:00] What is a Recovery Coach?**: Fritz explains his role in supporting individuals and families. - **[12:00] Sobriety vs. Recovery**: Why simply being sober isn’t enough. - **[17:00] Helping Young Men Find Purpose**: Addressing addiction and failure to launch. - **[22:00] The Importance of Therapy & Peer Support**: How a well-rounded support system changes lives. - **[28:00] Overcoming Isolation**: Learning to lean on others in tough times. - **[35:00] The Evolution of Recovery**: Why everyone’s journey looks different. - **[42:00] How to Connect**: Where to find Fritz and his services. --- ### **Key Points Discussed:** 1. **The Difference Between Sobriety and Recovery**: Being sober is about abstinence, but true recovery is about personal growth. 2. **Meeting Clients Where They Are**: Fritz’s unique approach to coaching focuses on trust and individualized support. 3. **The Power of Connection**: Why having the right people in your life is crucial to staying on track. 4. **Mental Health and Addiction**: Addressing both issues together for long-term success. 5. **The Role of Structure and Routine**: How daily habits and small wins create lasting change. --- ### **Guest Bio:** **Fritz Deichert** **Recovery Coach, Interventionist, Peer Support Specialist** Fritz Deichert is a recovery coach and interventionist based in Dallas, Texas, specializing in supporting young men struggling with addiction and failure to launch. With over eight years of experience in the field, Fritz takes a hands-on, personalized approach to recovery, focusing on connection, accountability, and real-world application. His mission is to help individuals build fulfilling lives beyond addiction through structured support, coaching, and mentorship. --- ### **Resources Mentioned:** - **Fritz Deichert LinkedIn:** [https://www.linkedin.com/in/fritzdeichert](https://www.linkedin.com/in/fritzdeichert)(https://www.linkedin.com/in/fritzdeichert](https://www.linkedin.com/in/fritzdeichert)) - **12-Step Programs (Find a Meeting):** [https://www.aa.org](https://www.aa.org) - **Mental Health & Recovery Resources:** [https://www.samhsa.gov](https://www.samhsa.gov) --- ### **Follow Us:** - **Instagram:** [https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery](https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery)(https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery](https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery)) - **Facebook:** [https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery](https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery)(https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery](https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery)) - **LinkedIn:** [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery](https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery)(https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery](https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery)) - **TikTok:** [https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc](https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc)(https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc](https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc)) --- ### **Watch & Listen:** - **Podcast Website:** [https://www.findingnewwaters.com](https://www.findingnewwaters.com) - **Spotify:** [https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw](https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw)(https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw](https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw)) - **Apple Podcast:** [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608)(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608)) - **YouTube:** [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw)(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw)) - **YouTube Music:** [https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn](https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn)(https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn](https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn))

In the "Finding New Waters" episode, Amanda Marino inspires with her resilience and wisdom in addiction recovery. She emphasizes hope ("There's hope for everyone"), the importance of informed action, and the power of personal boundaries. Her approach to recovery as a journey of personal growth and safety is both enlightening and empowering. < Back to Episodes Navigating Recovery and Renewal with Amanda Marino 41:50 min | Amanda Marino | Finding New Waters In the "Finding New Waters" episode, Amanda Marino inspires with her resilience and wisdom in addiction recovery. She emphasizes hope ("There's hope for everyone"), the importance of informed action, and the power of personal boundaries. Her approach to recovery as a journey of personal growth and safety is both enlightening and empowering. Subscribe "I can go anywhere on my recovery and I can feel safe as long as I'm spiritually fit and I'm with the right people"-Amanda Marino Show Notes In this enlightening episode of "Finding New Waters," we welcome Amanda Marino, co-founder of Next Level Recovery Associates, as our esteemed guest. Marino shares her multifaceted journey from overcoming personal challenges to spearheading innovative approaches in addiction recovery and mental health support. Throughout the episode, Marino delves into her personal story of transformation, from her struggles with addiction to her achievements as a mother and a businesswoman. She discusses the inception of Next Level Recovery Associates, highlighting its bespoke approach to treatment that adapts to the unique needs of each individual and family. Marino emphasizes the importance of evolving recovery strategies to meet people where they are, fostering lasting change through compassion and understanding. In addition to her professional endeavors, Marino candidly opens up about her own recovery journey and how it fuels her passion for helping others. She offers insights into the challenges of balancing her role as a single mother with her professional responsibilities, underscoring the importance of self-care and personal growth in sustaining long-term recovery. Listeners will also get a glimpse into the innovative strategies employed at Next Level Recovery Associates, including their approach to sober companionship, case management, and interventions. Marino's dedication to removing stigma around addiction and mental health, both through her organization's work and her social media presence, is a recurring theme of the conversation. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the evolving landscape of addiction recovery, the power of personal transformation, and the importance of tailored approaches in treatment. Join us in exploring the depths of resilience and renewal with Amanda Marino, a true beacon of hope in the recovery community. 1. Next Level Recovery Associates - Our Team: This page provides details about Amanda Marino's role and contributions to Next Level Recovery Associates. ⁠Visit here⁠.(https://chat.openai.com/www.nextlevelrecoveryassociates.com/our-team) 2. Amanda Marino - Next Level Recovery Associates: A dedicated page about Amanda Marino, one of the founders at Next Level Recovery Associates. ⁠Visit here⁠.(https://chat.openai.com/www.nextlevelrecoveryassociates.com/amanda-marino) 3. Meet Our Co-Founder, Amanda Marino - Next Level Recovery: This section highlights the compassion, dedication, and expertise of Amanda Marino in the field of recovery. ⁠Visit here⁠.(https://chat.openai.com/www.nextlevelrecoveryassociates.com/meet-our-co-founder-amanda-marino) 4. Amanda P. Marino, B.S, CIP, CLC, CRC, SRCD | AIS: This page on the Association of Intervention Specialists website lists her credentials and contact information. ⁠Visit here⁠.(https://chat.openai.com/www.associationofinterventionspecialists.org/amanda-p-marino-bs-cip-clc-crc-srcd) 5. Community Highlights: Meet Amanda Marino of Next Level Recovery Associates: An article introducing Amanda Marino and providing insights into her work at Next Level Recovery Associates. ⁠Visit here⁠.(https://chat.openai.com/www.voyagemia.com/interview/community-highlights-meet-amanda-marino-next-level-recovery-associates) Podcast Website: ⁠https://www.findingnewwaters.com/⁠ (https://www.findingnewwaters.com/)New Waters Recovery Website: ⁠https://newwatersrecovery.com/⁠ (https://newwatersrecovery.com/)Watch & Listen on Spotify: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw⁠ (https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw)Apple Podcast: ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608⁠ (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608)Youtube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw⁠ (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw)Youtube Music: ⁠https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn⁠ (https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn)Google Podcast: ⁠https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9kZmI2YTk3NC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw⁠F(https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9kZmI2YTk3NC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw?authuser=0)ollow Us on Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery/⁠ (https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery/)Facebook: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery⁠ (https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery)Linkedin: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery/⁠ (https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery/)Tiktok: ⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc⁠(https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc) Transcript Amanda Marino [00:00:00] Justin Mclendon: All right, guys, thank you for joining us for another episode of Finding New Waters. And, uh, uh, today we have Erica Cooney, our, uh, one of our primary therapists here at New Waters Recovery, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist. And then our guest on the show is Amanda Marino, and she is the, uh, co founder of Next Level Recovery Associates. Justin Mclendon: Amanda, thank you so much for taking some time to hang out with us today. \ Amanda Marino: \\ Amanda Marino: Thank you both so much for having me. It's such an honor, um, and humbling always to be asked to do things like this. Justin Mclendon: Absolutely. So I thought we could start off, if you're open to it, maybe just tell us a little bit about you and what, what kind of brought you to the field. Justin Mclendon: What do you like? What have, what have been your experiences? Amanda Marino: Well, I, like when I speak at a, uh, like a converse and event, I say there's like two versions of me, right? So there's me, there's Amanda, the co founder, the, you know, I started a, a nonprofit for women to go back and work back to school and recovery and had that going for years. Amanda Marino: Um, [00:01:00] I decided to fill a gap in my community that really needed to happen like the before, during and after piece. And there's a lot of people that are doing it out there. And when I worked for a number of people as a contractor, like I did all the work that, that my team does, like I've done companioning, I've done all of it. Amanda Marino: And I think it gives me a different perspective. Um, and I want to continue to evolve and try new ways to meet people where they are and to try to. Make and create lasting change. So that's what our company is all about. I had this idea. I had a full time cushy job and I told my ex husband, I said, I can't make it to Christmas. Amanda Marino: I need to leave my job and start now. And I was already building it up on the side. So by the time I left in August, I couldn't really make it even close to December. Uh, I opened up my business and quickly saw that I needed a co founder and that's when I, you know, got that direct hit on a run or a spiritual hit of it has to be Blake.[00:02:00] Amanda Marino: And we've started in January of 2020 and we've been extremely, you know, fruitful and abundant since then. That's great. Justin Mclendon: That's great. Amanda Marino: And then who the other side of me is. . No, go ahead. The, the other side of me is, I'm a mom. You know, I have a, an almost 18 year old son who was 18 months old when I got clean and sober. Amanda Marino: He'll be 18 on the 18th. This, this month. Love that. I have an 11 year old daughter. Um, you know, I'm a single mom, a homeowner. I love to be active. I love to adventure. I love to travel. Um, and I just love to live life to the fullest and, and be happy and free. So that's who I really am. Justin Mclendon: I love that. I love that. Justin Mclendon: Yeah, I'm a, I'm a father myself and, uh, yeah, I mean, that's, uh, we have to balance that, right? I mean, as much as I love the work that I do and the people that we get to help, I mean, like, uh, you know, being a parent and doing those things is, is amazing for sure. Uh, can you tell us a little bit about next level recovery? Justin Mclendon: [00:03:00] So I know you mentioned, uh, Sober Companion. I know you guys also do an intervention work, um, case management, things like that. So why don't you tell us a little bit about, you know, what is next level recovery do? Amanda Marino: So we are a boutique concierge, you know, um, programming that is designed, you know, once we do an assessment with an individual and a family that we create a custom plan for. Amanda Marino: So it can be before treatment, we start working with them during treatment and after, or we can do all of the above. And sometimes it's in place of, so if somebody has been to. So many treatments and they, their struggle is like applying what their aftercare plan is or applying what they've learned into the real life. Amanda Marino: We can kind of handhold them, right? Our coaches and our companions can handhold them and then like titrate down on how we do that because we don't want to coddle and be codependent. But I'll tell you a lot of the people we're dealing with today, I think it's after the COVID thing, it made it worse.[00:04:00] Amanda Marino: They're terrified to, to, like, take this sheet of, like, an aftercare paper and, and, and take those action steps by themselves. So they're scared to get jobs. They're, um, you know, they're scared to rekindle with their family. And so... We saw a need in our community. Like, there's a lot of people that do this all over the country, but in South Florida, there was really nobody doing what we did like as a hub. Amanda Marino: There's people that had like maybe a main office in New York or LA or Cal or just different places. But there was like, I'm from here and Blake's from here. So we work here in South Florida, but we also work a lot in New York, a lot in Texas, a lot in California and overseas. Um. You know, and the, uh, in Europe and as well as South America, we have a Latin team, uh, a Spanish speaking team as well. Amanda Marino: So we're just constantly trying to, um, improve. The way that we all do this, and we feel like it's our [00:05:00] responsibility as people that have a pretty strong social media presence to help remove stigma, to help educate people, to help people not feel alone, because it's a lot less intimidating to send a direct message to somebody. Amanda Marino: Then it is to pick up the phone. And I've had a lot of like attorneys and professionals over the years on LinkedIn that they've never told anyone they're super high functioning. Right. And they send a message, you know, like, Hey, I need help, but I don't want anyone to know I don't want to lose my, and I try to tell them like, you're not going to lose your license, but they don't believe me. Amanda Marino: So we've tried to really, and we continue to continually evolve, right? We're all, we're meeting about our clients every week and we're always trying to do better. Justin Mclendon: That's awesome. So what does that look like for a client when a client reaches out? I know you mentioned it could be before treatment or after, uh, but like if a client that's in, in potential need of your services, they reach out to you and kind of, what does that process look like? Amanda Marino: Well, since we've grown, we now have a couple of people in [00:06:00] place. So myself and Blake. focus is overseeing the whole company and overseeing every case. Um, we no longer take on our own clients. Um, just there was no way to travel the country this year. And for Blake to start his doctorate program for us to continue at the capacity we were right. Amanda Marino: So we took a long time to get our select hand selected. We hand select everyone that works for us. We don't have a large list of contractors. We know everybody that's on our. Our list of people that we use and we know them and what they're, what makes them tick, what they're going to client clients are going to align with. Amanda Marino: So, so Sarah, who, uh, was a nurse, she does all of our first screenings and she's our team and family manager. So everything starts and begins with either Sarah or Danielle. Uh, Sarah Frias or Danielle Muldeen and Danielle is our clinical outreach. Danielle went to school, got her bachelor's in psychology and then her master's in special education and then decided, I don't want to do, I don't want [00:07:00] to teach this. Amanda Marino: And so then she started working for a, another company for a while. And then when she came to me, I'm like, Oh my God, look at you would have. She's like, I never thought I'd ever use my degree. And look like this is. This is special and you're teaching and you're sure. And the psychology piece. So we have found these, like, there's a video, I don't know if you checked out my Instagram, but there's a video made the other day, which like literally melts my heart. Amanda Marino: It was an idea I had that says, or each team member at this lunch would say I am next level. I am next level. I am next level. And so it goes through all of that. And then it shows the end. Our videographer did like everybody saying it at the same time. Oh, that's beautiful. Level. And like, I'm not on it and Blake's on it because we're big on like lifting up our team. Amanda Marino: We want to highlight that and make it more about. them than it is about us these days, because they're the magic. Yeah, Justin Mclendon: absolutely. Completely agree. You know, I would say, you know, obviously at New Waters, I mean, we do detox, we do assessments, and everybody is an outbound [00:08:00] referral, right? So, you know, working with the families, with the client on the front end to help them, you know, make the decision to come into treatment. Justin Mclendon: But then we're just kind of the starting point, right? So, you know, what you're talking about, just kind of the idea of like sober companionship, case management, uh, even sometimes interventions on the front end, um, we, we definitely see the value in those types of services. Uh, and you know, I could speak for hours about this, but. Justin Mclendon: You know, since everybody is an outbound referral, obviously people are at different places in their level of motivation for change or to take that next step in their recovery. And then we also see, unfortunately, with the disease of addiction, we just see a lot of recidivism, uh, the word that I'm looking for that I can't remember right now. Justin Mclendon: I know what you mean. Amanda Marino: You know what I'm saying. I would try to say it, but then I'm going to butcher it. Justin Mclendon: We'll just move past that, right? Um, so there we go. There we go. Justin Mclendon: So, you know, we want to obviously all of us, I think, right? We want to lower that. We want to [00:09:00] see people be successful, you know, take that first step and be able to see progress as they move forward. Justin Mclendon: And that is one service. I think that a lot of time is very valuable in helping people reach that goal. That a lot of people just don't take advantage of is that, you know, for maybe different reasons and maybe you could speak to this, but, you know, maybe feeling like, uh, you know, they can do it on their own, right? Justin Mclendon: Or just not being willing to ask for that additional layer of help, or to think, you know, to be in the mindset that if I just do detox and residential, I should be cured and fine. Uh, but a lot of times having someone that can be there as a resource and provide additional support and accountability can just be such a huge help in this process. Amanda Marino: Yeah, well, I'm going to kind of backtrack because a few things that you said came up. So the first thing is like, you know, doing what the services you do, detox and residential, right? So your admissions team and like your, you know, intake staff and your, you know, detox therapist noticed on the front end that this family.[00:10:00] Amanda Marino: is definitely needs your family program, but is way too much. They're lighting your phone up. They don't understand. They're not educated. We're called often then to kind of step in and then we support, and we're a third party voice of whatever your clinical recommendations are. So now they have two different organizations that have no association with each other, except for their trusted partners, giving the same messaging. Amanda Marino: Right. Um, so that's one way where. providers will call us and be like, Amanda, like, we need you guys to like, we, so we have a family coach, we have a psychiatrist, we have a psychologist, we have a dietitian. And then we have coaches and, you know, companions that are, are, are specialties to everything. And then on the back end, you know, people go home and sometimes they go home to their house still with who knows what in it still, right? Amanda Marino: Like, are there, is there paraphernalia, is there stashes? Like, We go, we do this thing where we'll go home with people, clean up their house, like get them settled, start doing, implementing that plan, making sure they make their first few therapist appointments, they're making meetings, you know, they're [00:11:00] meeting people, um, they're not isolating because that's the easiest and most common thing to do. Amanda Marino: And especially if there's no, like, we had a couple clients recently that were, that came in themselves, right? And there was no family involvement, but I quickly saw, like, we need to have somebody in the family. For support and for backup, right? If it's just like an adult male or adult female that comes to us in one services, we still need somebody else for their protection to be involved. Amanda Marino: Right. And so we, we do clinical staffings every single week and we look at, okay, what's working, what's not, is this the right coach for the person? Do we need to change something? Maybe change therapists. Like we go through all that stuff with our psychologists and, um. And usually the people that come to us, this is not their first go around. Amanda Marino: Unfortunately, I wish someone called me on their first go around. Um, oftentimes the adolescence I deal with, but it's not their first problem experience. Right. I would love for some, a family [00:12:00] to call me with their kids, 17 years old, and like us to give them the support, education, them to have family therapy, family coaching, you know, have a companion coach that could take their kid out a few days a week and then learn how to. Amanda Marino: You know, live life and, and some of those skills that those with the substance use disorder miss along the way. Justin Mclendon: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so we were chatting a little bit before we started the episode and you were talking about just this idea of like stigma. And, uh, you know, I think, you know, along the same lines of the conversation we're having, like those barriers are those things that keep people from moving forward or. Justin Mclendon: Uh, you know, reduce their level of motivation or, you know, maybe sometimes keep them stuck in patterns of thought and behavior. I wonder if you wanted to maybe just, just chime in a little bit about that. What are your thoughts on stigma and, uh, maybe how that's causing some issues for people? Amanda Marino: Well, I know, you know, like I was 10 years ago, I was like one of the first people that talked about being LinkedIn, uh, [00:13:00] on LinkedIn. Amanda Marino: And like, I would get these Matt, like I'm talking a hundred thousand comment kind of post. Wow. And I was like. Scared to do it. And then I did it, but I realized, wow, like I'm making an impact here. Like people are seeing this put together woman and oh no, she couldn't be a drug addict. And like, I want to show that, Hey, like what you see today isn't what walked in the door 16 years ago, but this is what can happen. Amanda Marino: And like, you know, I have people say, well, you shouldn't say all these things, but you know, there's always the, the timers and the, you shouldn't. You know, set people's standards too high and let them not meet up. Like, just cause you graduated college and you did all this stuff. Does it mean every, okay, well, you know, I'm just letting them know it's possible, like from a girl that thought she was too stupid and too damaged and broken to met and messed up to get this thing too, not smart enough to go back to college and all the things I've been able to accomplish in spite of all my self defeating beliefs. Amanda Marino: Um, so I've, I've utilized things like that to try to break stigma, right? Um, or it's the, the [00:14:00] person that suffers with, with. You know, it's usually complex things. You know, nowadays it's, um, way more than just dual diagnosis, right? There's so many pieces and like, it's okay. Like we all hurt. We're all going through something. Amanda Marino: And, um, what's really been fueled up in me lately is this whole black and white. mentality. Um, I'll let you chime in before I dig into that. Cause I'm going to go down the raft. Justin Mclendon: Well, I'm interested exactly where you're going with that. So black and white. I mean, I have my own thoughts, but I'm wondering what do you, what do you mean by that? Justin Mclendon: Right. Um, I mean, yeah, I mean, I immediately, what jumps up for me is I think, you know, just kind of working in this field for a long time now, I mean, there's kind of this. old school way of thinking about things. And, and, uh, it's, I think it is really important that people start, uh, I mean, it's nice to see that there are, there is some movement that is very needed, but I think a lot of people are really stuck in the past still, unfortunately.[00:15:00] In this field for almost 20 years now, and I am a trauma therapist. I am. I joke when I'm here and say, you know, done a lot of trauma work. My entire career has been in trauma. I just happen to be at a detox center now. And so the component that I'm bringing to new waters is this trauma way of thinking and every behavior serves a purpose. It started somewhere and it's was helpful at one point. And now it's no longer helpful. Let's figure out why. And let's figure out this new skill that you can develop so that you can move forward. And everything is data. It's all it is, is data. That's how I start to phrase things with our clients. And when we were talking before the episode, I was really digging what you're saying. So I can't wait for everyone else to hear what you're saying, because I think this is where we need to go Amanda Marino: in this field. Well, thank you for the work you do. I have been in trauma therapy since age seven, um, I'm 42, so that's a [00:16:00] very long time of in and out. I've now been with my current therapist for three and a half years. Amanda Marino: That's one piece to anyone in this field is have a therapist. Yes, absolutely. Like I'm taking myself on a personal retreat to Costa Rica in December by myself. Right. No friends and nothing. So I'm really big on, on all of that as professionals. Right. Like we have to do our own work. Because what good. Amanda Marino: Absolutely. If I'm. Broken and a mess, you know, I'm a night and I am a broken mess sometimes. Right. But I, I tune in and figure out what I need. Do I need more rest? Do I need to take time off? You know? Um, so the black and white thing, and I'm the first one to. to take ownership that I was born and raised in my personal recovery in a very black and white methodology. Amanda Marino: And I preach that if you didn't do what I did, you weren't doing it, right? We're gonna die. Right. And I like firmly I mean, and I maybe I needed that for a time of my [00:17:00] recovery. I needed it to be that black and white for me to stay safe. Um, but there was like, there's been countless situations that I look back at and wish that I had been more educated and more open minded. Amanda Marino: Like I recently I did, I've had a slew of weekends of nonprofit events. I had like a pick a ball tournament for charity that I, we bought, we, we did. Then I went to Fort Myers, the West coast of Florida to speak for my best friend's dad. Um, my best friend died of an overdose in 2016. Kim. 2016 Kim Kinkle and her dad, Al and I are still really close and I had started my nonprofit in her name that sent women in recovery to college and that fizzled out and, um, it was a dark, ugly experience. Amanda Marino: Nonprofit is a business. It's not, it's not fun and games. And when you get into the business, you know, and I kind of got my heart broken in that experience. Um, but now Kim's dad, a few years ago started an RCO. Um, recovery community organization in Fort Myers called Kimmy's Recovery [00:18:00] Zone, and I got the honor to go be their keynote speaker this year. Amanda Marino: And one of the things I shared was if I would have been educated the way I am now, I would have been able to support Kim in a different way, and I think she'd still be alive in today's recovery, Lance, right? Because I didn't understand why would you stay on something when you want to be sober, you know, and I think a lot of people are that way. Amanda Marino: And our experience and our We can't do that as professionals. Like we, we can't, and I'll meet someone else, a friend, a client and anybody with so much love, but to undo it in myself and give myself the grace has been the hardest. Right. So, um. I keep getting these women in my life with long term recovery that feel like they're not doing it right or they're not doing it good enough because it didn't look like the way it once did. Amanda Marino: And if you're waking up every day and like you're trying to take care of yourself, you're trying to be a better [00:19:00] person, um, you know, you're going to therapy or you're taking, doing self care things, you're making meetings when you can, like, I think that that's all incredible. Um, and I want to honor people that are hard on themselves that like I'm not doing enough because like maybe there's a person in the rooms that maybe is telling you that you're not doing enough. Amanda Marino: Cause I got someone tried to bully me the other night and I'm like, I'm not the one I was at an eight 30 meeting and they were like, we'll see you at the seven a. m. I go, the hell you won't. I'll be sleeping. If I'm going to an eight 30 PM meeting and I'm going to be going out to dinner, I'm, I know myself. Amanda Marino: I need rest. You're not going to bully me. What would you have done for your hit or what would you have done for your, and I'm like, that is so not relevant to me. Like you go bring that shit to somebody else, you know, so, but there's not a lot of people that feel strong enough in that, like in their conviction and know who they are. Amanda Marino: So I see there, I see how we can do better, you know, I see how we can do better and how we can meet. More with compassion, love [00:20:00] over like conviction and crucifixion and shame, shaming people like it's, it's, it's taken people out the door and they're scared to come back. Justin Mclendon: It is, especially when, um. People are already coming in with so much shame to begin with. Justin Mclendon: Uh, I'm, I'm with you, Amanda. I think, you know, why in the world would we try and add to that? Because I think a lot of what you're saying, and I think we, we do see this, right? Is, uh, all we're doing is just adding to that shame, right? We're adding to that shame, we're adding to that, you know, uh, not feeling good enough, not going to be able to make it. Justin Mclendon: Uh, all those things that that person is struggling with anyway. And then we're just kind of, you know, validating that for them, right? We're furthering the cycle. A hundred percent. We're not breaking the cycle. And that's the whole purpose of what we're trying to do is break those cycles and let's move forward and find where we can find that inner peace that we're looking for and that self love that you keep talking about, Amanda. Yeah, Amanda Marino: it's about peace and freedom and like being happy with like who's in the mirror. And [00:21:00] we're one organization that we decided some years back that like, I will take a client on that says to me, Hey. I want to, I think I want to, I don't want to admit I'm an alcoholic. I don't want to talk about that. Amanda Marino: Like, but I want to explore my relationship with alcohol. I will take that woman on or man, I will take them just because they don't want to be completely sober. I'm not going to turn them away because this has given me an opportunity for them. to figure this out themselves, right? I will, we'll take on clients that, you know, want to try to continue to smoke pot. Amanda Marino: Like we will try to, you know, fill their time with good things and have the therapy and the medication and, and kind of like come up with a way that like. We're not making it so it's like an all day thing, right? Like if they are doing it, maybe they're just doing it at night as to where they're doing it all day because they have nothing going on and nothing to do and no goals and no focus. Amanda Marino: So we're, I know there's other organizations that if someone's not willing to commit to the complete, Um, abstinence that people won't work with them and I, I will take [00:22:00] people if they're willing to get better and like, you know, in many programs, it's like a desire, right? So if someone has a desire for improvement and puts in some work, I'm willing to work with them and, you know, of course, if it's safe, but usually these are like high functional people that like aren't convinced that, you know, right. Amanda Marino: They can fix themselves and they can figure it out. They're going to find it. But let's, let's, let's undo that. You know, let's let them figure that out for themselves. I don't want to tell you what you are and you aren't. You need to tell yourself that. Justin Mclendon: Because I think that's where the power comes from anyway, right? Justin Mclendon: I mean, it's, it's all fine and dandy to sit back and share your clinical, you know, opinion with someone, right? But, uh, if, if they have to come to believe these things for their self, right? They have to come to develop a desire to want to change in the ways that they are going to find value, right? Uh, and that, I think that at the end of the day, that's the only thing that's important and that's the only thing that's going to be effective, right? Amanda Marino: I want to see more people live. Amen. I want to see more people make it. Absolutely. And if they're alive, there's [00:23:00] a chance and if there's progress, that's beautiful. If it's not perfect and it's kind of ugly sometimes, that's okay. If there's, you know, if there's, or I, I'm going to not use like, I had to, I changed, I spoke for a women's program with moms and kids the other night, like a pretty, you know, like, you know, ankle bracelets, like all that stuff. Amanda Marino: This one girl was like, I'm a chronic relapser. And I was like, I, I reached out to her after I go, let's change that narrative love, let's change it to your chronic recovery seeker, you know, cause that you're are, you're just beating yourself up for how many times you've been in and out and that that's right there alone is going to make you feel shameful, you know, and as a mom, forget it, we've, we feel way more shame when we're in addiction as a mother, it's brutal. Amanda Marino: Um, yeah, it's, uh. It's, it's heavy stuff, but it's, um, like, I'm not scared to put this out there and I'm not scared to have someone challenge. Like I put a video, another thing I had put a video up of, I went to a therapist friend's birthday [00:24:00] dinner the other night and it was all went, you know, the women that the three of us that were left over and went out dancing for a half hour, we were all in recovery. Amanda Marino: I went to this funny little place in Palm Beach Island. Are you down here? Cause I saw you at a five, six, one Justin Mclendon: number. No, I'd lived in in Palm Beach County for like 16 Amanda Marino: years, you know, like Kachina, do you know Kachina? Like yes, very familiar So I went to Kachina for like a half hour and I had this video where I took and I was walking through the wine Cellar area of this restaurant in Palm Beach. Amanda Marino: I was just realized like how cool is it that like I probably wouldn't even notice this, but I was like waiting for somebody in the bathroom. So I like videoed me walking through the wine cellar and I was like, I can go anywhere on my recovery and I can feel safe as long as I'm spiritually fit and I'm with the right people. Amanda Marino: And of course someone was like, you shouldn't be, you know, put teetering on your recovery. You're, you know, you're asking for it. And I'm like, no, I don't like, I don't live like that. That's not how it is for me. Like if I did feel comfortable, like I have a boyfriend who drinks, if I don't feel comfortable that day, I won't go hang out with his friends if they're drinking. Amanda Marino: Um, And then there's other times where I don't care at all. [00:25:00] And like I was there to dance. I was there for a good meal. Like those are the things that brought me there. I'm not going to live for me. I don't judge if someone else isn't comfortable with that. That's up to them. I'm not going to live in a box, but i'm also not going to go to like a dive bar Or like, you know, there's certain places i'm not going to put myself, you know, but I want to go to nice restaurants I want to go to I want to dance. Amanda Marino: I was a hip hop dancer professionally. So like I love that. That's awesome I think it's important for all of us to remember, right, we're all on our own journey, and what works for one person is not going to work for somebody else, and we all have our own way of getting to where we need to be, and we all need to have some sort of faith that we'll get to where we need to be. And the freedom to choose to get to where we need to be, right? And not feel, because the more we constrict, the more we're going to fight back in a way and rebel. Because most people in recovery are like, nope, you ain't going to tell me what to do, right? And so it's just making sure everyone has a freedom to choose. And when they feel that freedom, you'll be [00:26:00] amazed where people will go. Amanda Marino: Yeah, it's like, I feel like there's a delicate balance with like the freedom, but like also certain some like non negotiables, right? Like, like, you know, commitment to your, to your personal growth, like stay like, you know, But freedom to like, we want our clients input. Amanda Marino: We want to know what they like, what they connect with, what's working for them. Like we want them to have a say in their care because if they have a say in their care, they're much more apt to take it much more serious. And like, don't feel like they're just being like, you still have this day. Tell me what to do. Amanda Marino: And I really don't like it. Tell me I can't do something. And then I'm. going to show you how great I can do it. Um, it's just, it's just in my being, even though all the work I've done, it's just still in there. Right. It's about having boundaries, right? Cause the more it's about boundaries, allow us to know the freedom we can have. I think that was one of the most important things I've ever learned. Amanda Marino: Absolutely. Absolutely. And then like, you know, kind of just on that to, to add to like the kind of way that [00:27:00] we do things. So there's this big, you know, thing that's been going on a long time. I was in an adolescent program, a TC model, very abusive, very awful. Amanda Marino: And so there's this thing that still goes on in this country, the whole like snatch and grab adolescents in the middle of the night and do transports. Like we don't do that. Okay. So like how we, we do. Maybe there's some cases that it's needed. I'm just very not for it as a traumatized teen who was sent to a traumatizing program, um, that did the opposite of what I needed to, like if I. Amanda Marino: You know, the programs that are around today are such so much more loving and hear the kids and call the parents out and it just, it just wasn't like that back then, but we, you know, a teenager's family calls us and if it's just like some behavioral and some problematic using, it's nothing that's dangerous that like needs detox or anything, we will tell the family, let's set up a meeting where we're going to come by, like if there's an older sibling, like let's include everybody and come and by that time, once we've dug in with the family, we know what's going on. Amanda Marino: Okay. We have a plan proposal, [00:28:00] like listen, we want you to do this for two, three weeks, like, you know, meet up with a coach, go to a therapist, go to a psychiatrist, like have a, this cur, this time you come in the house, like you don't do, and let them have a say in their, in what they want to say, cause they always have something to say too, and hear them out, and then when we tell them treatments on the table, that if these things don't work, we're coming back to get you, and we're taking you to residential treatment, Anytime we come back, they go willing because they've proven to themselves that they can't, they can't put it this way. Amanda Marino: Let me tell you, we don't have kids blow up and we're not traumatizing kids, you know? Which Justin Mclendon: is huge. Yeah, absolutely. That's all Amanda Marino: I wanted. That's all I wanted as a broken, abused teenager was somebody to hear me and understand me and like love me where I was at. I hated myself. Justin Mclendon: Absolutely. Yeah. And like you said, I mean, thank goodness, right, that there has been for a number of years and there seems to [00:29:00] be some, some movement, especially in the adolescent treatment and things like that, the word things are moving in more of a, you know, loving direction and meeting kids where they are. Justin Mclendon: But you still do hear of these programs that do these, like you were saying, like these snatch and grab things. I think, I think some of the wilderness programs still kind of do operate like that. And like, it's, uh. Yeah, I've been Amanda Marino: called and asked for and I told them, absolutely not. We, my team does not do that. Amanda Marino: I'm not putting my team in that situation. That's traumatizing. And I'm not putting a kid in that situation from somebody who was physically abused, sexually abused. My sister was kidnapped. Like I am not putting some other kid through that shit. I'm not doing it. Absolutely. Justin Mclendon: Completely agree with you. Um, Amanda, one thing I wanted to touch base on, I know we're kind of getting close to the end of our time here, but I know that you, uh, you did. Justin Mclendon: A show in the past, but I think you have not, if you want not, not sure if you wanna do a plug for that or anything, but you have a, yeah, a show that you've been working on. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Amanda Marino: There's a little, like the little story that leads up to, but it's [00:30:00] not super long. I'm not a long Sure. Amanda Marino: Go for it. Thank God. So I was in acting and modeling from ages four to 22. Um, I started like runway, did commercials, print work, hip hop videos, dance in concerts for like Britney Spears Kid Rock. I danced for Rick Cool. And, um, sugar Red, like all these famous kit, like I did a performance for KISS in Jamaica for something. Amanda Marino: But anyway, so all these, I, I had this whole like. You know, for me, my using wasn't all awful. I had a lot of fun. Um, and so I, my last audition I went to in my addiction, I completely was like up from the night before and completely embarrassed myself. And it was something I was really shameful about. Like I had all of this opportunity and all of this talent and I like ruined it with so many people in that field. Amanda Marino: And um, I had a dream when I came into recovery of being back in on screen and being in entertainment of some kind of sorts and giving back and being a woman of substance, not objectified for being a young, good looking, you know, [00:31:00] flawless body, 18 year old, but for being like a woman of substance. Right. Amanda Marino: And I came in, I was 200 pounds and I had a face full of acne. I was two 30 actually. Um, I didn't even look like myself when I came into recovery. But I worked really hard and I, I remember manifesting 14 years ago that I wanted to be on the show intervention. Okay. And I, um, I got, I did a few auditions for it over the years, but during the COVID time, and then the did I I'm trained in, um, you know, gaming. Amanda Marino: addiction, gaming disorder and, and social media addiction. So I got called for that show and I worked a season doing that show and it was like my toe in the water. It was kind of a take spin off of intervention, but a little different cause you're dealing with different kinds of cases. I got to work with three women on that and that's out on a and a that's been, it's on on demand. Amanda Marino: You can find it. I had a friend tell me she was watching it the other day to educate her boyfriend on mental health. And, uh, and then I just finished, um, a month ago I did my last out of three [00:32:00] episodes for intervention that's coming up in on A& E and also is streaming, I think, on Netflix and Hulu. Um, I got to be the intervention professional for three episodes. Amanda Marino: Um, and working with some individuals that were in horrific situations. I was in Memphis, New Hampshire, and like Weaverville, California, which is like a very big meth place. So some places that like, I mean, Memphis don't go, I thought it wasn't going to be like Nashville. I got really. And I was like, this is not total. Amanda Marino: You're not in Nashville anymore. Um, it was scary. It was scary. We had bodyguards and stuff like that. Like it was, it was like top five dangerous, most dangerous cities right now. And like, Oh wow. They almost pulled, they almost pulled it. But, um, I got to make an impact in these people's lives and people that could never have afforded treatment living in under bridges, living in trap houses, like. Amanda Marino: The amount of trap houses and kids living in them [00:33:00] and the stuff that's going on literally all over our country. I think like I knew it, you know, but when you see it, it's, it's, it's on another level. Like we think this stuff goes on only in third world countries and no, it is going on in a city near you. Amanda Marino: everywhere. And the Child Protective Services can't keep up with this stuff. Like, um, so working on that show for me, because I work with mostly very, you know, high profile, like, you know, people in entertainment, high pro, you know, high wealth, net worth families, because they are very complex and have a lot more, you know, they have a lot of things going on that they need additional support. Amanda Marino: So it's very Interesting to me is that there's so different ends of the spectrum. The person living in the bridge or under in the trap houses, no access or no idea about any resources. And then they individual that has access to everything. Right. And they both still struggle [00:34:00] the same. Right. And, um, and so it was really good for me to see what I saw. Amanda Marino: I have like passion to create change in that area. I don't know what it looks like yet, but I don't think that we should have this going on all over our country and kids should be. You know, going through the situations I was in seeing drugs at a young age having abuse, you know And that's just going on everywhere and they came there's like an area of Memphis My friend told me they won't even go in if no one's called. Amanda Marino: It's that scary. Oh wow. Like it's happening here. Like we're seeing like all this horrible stuff that's going on overseas and it's it's hideous and awful I can't even turn the news on but there is That going on literally in a neighborhood near all of us all the time. Yeah. Justin Mclendon: Absolutely. Mm hmm. It is. It's awful. Amanda Marino: There is hope. There's hope for the ones that have it all and, and don't want it because they have it all. It's hard to give them bottom lines. And then the ones that don't have access to resources, like if [00:35:00] anyone calls me, like even when we were filming the show, there was a girl that popped up that, um, I can't say too much cause it's not out yet, but there was a girl that popped up that wasn't part of the show that like I even offered help to. Amanda Marino: Cause I didn't want to leave her. I was like, Hey, here's my number. Like I know that you're not part of this, but like, I don't want to leave you here. So if you want help, I'll find you something, call me, you know, and I'll do my best. You know, not everyone can is, is a next level recovery associates client, but like anyone that calls me for anything, our team will always make sure that they have. Amanda Marino: Some kind of plan or path or phone numbers to call that can meet their needs. Absolutely. Justin Mclendon: That's amazing I'll definitely I'm looking forward to watching the episode. So I'll I'll keep my eye out for that. I Amanda Marino: mean, listen I'll tell you if anyone has a preconceived notion in our industry of the show it is the most caring Wonderful production team ever. Amanda Marino: They were crying. They were crying when [00:36:00] things were going down. They were so compassionate and kind and non judgmental when they were, you know, filming certain things. And I mean, I was blown away by the love and what they didn't know. They would ask us and they never pretended like it was their area of expertise. Amanda Marino: And I just have the utmost respect for all of the team, the camera crew, the sound people, the producers, like they were just like, yeah, They're like part of my extended family now too. Like I love them. Justin Mclendon: That's awesome. That is amazing. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that with us. Well, Amanda, thank you, uh, for spending some time with us, taking some time out of your busy schedule to, to chat with myself and Erica. Justin Mclendon: Um, I always kind of like to wrap these up. So, you know, I think that the big thing is for the podcast is to make it available for, you know, education purposes and resources for families or people that are kind of currently struggling and kind of exploring what that option may look like. Obviously some professionals watch it as well, but if you had to kind of leave the audience with one idea or one thing, I know not to [00:37:00] put you on the spot, like what would be that one thing that you would say? Justin Mclendon: Okay, go for it. Amanda Marino: Well, there's, there's two things, so of course, there's never one thing with me. So one thing for people that are struggling and addiction that like maybe have been in and out always, if you're clean and sober today, and there's some funky idea you have in your head and there's something you haven't told anyone, you need to tell at least one person. Amanda Marino: What's really going on the thoughts. The thing doesn't have to be the whole wide world. Doesn't have to be a group. It could be whoever you feel safe and you could tell this person this thing and this person this thing. So there's no right and wrong way to do it. Just make sure you talk about the things that you need to come out. Amanda Marino: That's that's going out to people that are struggling for families or for anyone that's searching. Like if you can and you do have the resources, family coaching, family therapy, wraparound services, case management, you, we don't want to be at next level recover associates. We don't want to be a band aid. Amanda Marino: Our goal is to create lasting [00:38:00] change within in the individual, the family system or on the corporate space. So, you know, do it right and do it right the first time. Don't go on Google. Ask a trusted professional that you know, or somebody that's been through it before word of mouth. You're going to get the best. Amanda Marino: You know, it just terrifies me when I hear, you know, families search on Google and be current because what a program used to be. Two years ago, it could have been sold and changed and gutted and have new staff. So be, you know, people like us who tour programs all the time are up to date with what's what and what's current. Amanda Marino: So, um, you know, the more health, the better, the longer term, the support and oversight, the better rates of living a long, happy, beautiful life. It's like, if you're gonna do this, do it right and do it. Absolutely. All the way. Words of wisdom. Or if you've done it 10, or if you've done it 10 times, this time, let's do it right. Amanda Marino: You know, and make it the last time. Cause you know, sometimes the people that come to us are just like [00:39:00] so done that they don't believe anything's going to work. Just don't give up hope. There's hope for everyone. Justin Mclendon: There you go. I love that. Thank you, Amanda. Appreciate it. Erica, Amanda Marino: thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And it was really great to meet you and I look forward to following you on IG. Amanda Marino: Yeah, definitely. And I'd like, you know, I've known Graham and Chloe a very long time since they live down here. Um, so, you know, I know there's been some talk of, of myself or someone from my team coming up to see you guys. So I'd love to thank you for the work you're doing. Amanda Marino: And thank you for doing trauma work for 20 years. That means you have to do extra self care like I do. You know, sometimes these things expect us to know the answers to everything. And sometimes we don't know the answers and that's okay. Justin Mclendon: Absolutely. Very good. Thank you both. Thank

< Back to Episodes Finding Clarity: Exploring Giftedness and Recovery with Andrea Lein 45:08 min | Andrea Lein | Finding New Waters In this episode of 'Finding New Waters,' host B. Reeves from New Waters Recovery engages in a thought-provoking discussion with Andrea Lein, an expert in clinical and school psychology with a focus on supporting parents of gifted and twice-exceptional young adults and adolescents. The conversation explores the unique challenges faced by gifted individuals, including the often misunderstood aspects of their mental health and substance use struggles Subscribe "You alone can do it, but you can't do it alone. We used to say that all the time. You alone can do it. It's your responsibility to do this work, but you can't do it alone." -Andrea Lein Show Notes In this episode of 'Finding New Waters,' host B.Reeves from New Waters Recovery engages in a thought-provoking discussion with Andrea Lein, an expert in clinical and school psychology with a focus on supporting parents of gifted and twice-exceptional young adults and adolescents. The conversation explores the unique challenges faced by gifted individuals, including the often misunderstood aspects of their mental health and substance use struggles. Andrea shares her journey, from her personal experiences to her professional focus on giftedness and neurodiversity, highlighting the importance of community and asking for help. She also delves into the nuanced issues surrounding ADHD diagnosis and medication, offering insights into the complexities of treatment and the role of environmental factors in supporting mental health. The discussion underlines the critical need for understanding and supporting gifted and twice-exceptional individuals through specialized approaches that consider their unique talents and vulnerabilities. Andrea Lein Link: https://www.andrealein.com

In this episode of Finding New Waters, we’re joined by Brook McKenzie, CEO of Burning Tree Programs. Brook shares how Burning Tree Ranch is helping individuals and families navigate late-stage addiction through a true long-term recovery model. < Back to Episodes Meeting People Where They Are: Lindsey Humphreys on Recovery Access & Innovation 30:36 min | Lindsey Humphreys | Finding New Waters In this inspiring episode of *Finding New Waters*, we sit down with Lindsey Humphreys, founder of Illuminate North Carolina and Bob’s Way Recovery Center. Lindsey shares her journey from public service to recovery advocacy and talks about the powerful legacy of her grandfather, Bob Goodell—a pioneer in the local recovery community. She breaks down the work Illuminate NC is doing across harm reduction, sober companionship, and rural outreach through Bob’s Way, a new peer-run center providing low-barrier support in underserved Vance County. Subscribe "We don’t need people to be perfect. We need them to stay alive long enough to get better." – Lindsey Humphreys Show Notes In this inspiring episode of Finding New Waters, we sit down with Lindsey Humphreys, founder of Illuminate North Carolina and Bob’s Way Recovery Center. Lindsey shares her journey from public service to recovery advocacy and talks about the powerful legacy of her grandfather, Bob Goodell—a pioneer in the local recovery community. She breaks down the work Illuminate NC is doing across harm reduction, sober companionship, and rural outreach through Bob’s Way, a new peer-run center providing low-barrier support in underserved Vance County. From distributing life-saving naloxone throughout Wake County to eliminating childcare and scheduling barriers in IOP programs, Lindsey is shifting how recovery is accessed and experienced. If you're passionate about inclusive recovery, harm reduction, or family-led change—this one's for you. Timestamps: • [00:00] Introduction – Meet Lindsey and learn about her grandfather Bob’s legacy • [03:00] What Is Bob’s Way? – A peer-run center offering free recovery resources • [07:00] The Importance of Henderson County – Why rural access to recovery matters • [10:00] What is a Sober Companion? – Bridging high-stress transitions with live-in support • [14:00] Recovery Beyond the Individual – Serving families, single parents, and professionals • [18:00] Harm Reduction in Action – Naloxone distribution boxes across Wake County • [22:00] Childcare, Night IOPs, and Flexibility – Removing the real-life barriers to healing • [26:00] Building a Culture of Access – From Scranton roots to North Carolina reform • [30:00] How to Connect – Contact info, websites, and more • Key Points Discussed: 1. Low-Barrier Recovery Access – Creating programs that adapt to real life—not the other way around 2. Harm Reduction with Heart – Naloxone boxes placed across Wake County save lives, no questions asked 3. Support for the Whole Family – Onsite childcare, night IOPs, and family-focused recovery 4. The Role of Sober Companions – Walking beside people during their most vulnerable transitions 5. Legacy and Leadership – How Bob Goodell’s recovery values continue to shape the future Guest Bio: Lindsey Humphreys Founder of Illuminate NC & Bob’s Way Recovery Center Lindsey Humphreys is the Executive Director of Illuminate North Carolina, a nonprofit that offers harm reduction services, sober companionship, and rural recovery programming. She also founded Bob’s Way, a peer-led recovery hub in Vance County named after her grandfather, Bob Goodell—a revered figure in the North Carolina recovery community. With a background in HR and government health services, Lindsey now leads innovative programming focused on accessibility, dignity, and meeting people where they are. 📞 Call: (919) 522-5990 (Bob’s Way main line) 🌐 www.illuminatenorthcarolina.or(https://www.illuminatenorthcarolina.org/)g 🌐 www.bobsway.o(https://www.bobsway.org/)rg Resources Mentioned: • Illuminate North Carolina: https://www.illuminatenorthcarolina.org(https://www.illuminatenorthcarolina.org/) • Bob’s Way Recovery Center: https://www.bobsway.org(https://www.bobsway.org/) • 12-Step Meeting Finder: https://www.aa.org(https://www.aa.org/) • Circle of Security Parenting: https://circleofsecurityinternational.com(https://circleofsecurityinternational.com/) Follow Us: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery(https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery) • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery(https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery) • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery(https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery) • TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc(https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc) Watch & Listen: • Podcast Website: https://www.findingnewwaters.com(https://www.findingnewwaters.com/) • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw(https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw) • Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608) • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw) • YouTube Music: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn(https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn) #LindseyHumphreys #BobsWay #IlluminateNC #HarmReduction #SoberCompanions #FamilyRecoverySupport #FindingNewWatersPodcast #RuralRecoveryAccess

This episode of Finding New Waters spotlights the transformative work of Youth Prevention Mentors (YPM), featuring insights from founder Maks Ezrin and US Operations Director Jack Vaughn. We dive into YPM's inception, motivated by personal triumphs over mental health and addiction, and how these experiences shaped their unique mentorship model. < Back to Episodes Steering Youth to Healthier Paths: A Conversation with Maks and Jack 41:30 min | Maks & Jacks | Finding New Waters This episode of Finding New Waters spotlights the transformative work of Youth Prevention Mentors (YPM), featuring insights from founder Maks Ezrin and US Operations Director Jack Vaughn. We dive into YPM's inception, motivated by personal triumphs over mental health and addiction, and how these experiences shaped their unique mentorship model. Subscribe Show Notes In this edition of Finding New Waters, we delve into the proactive work of Youth Prevention Mentors (YPM), highlighting their mission to intervene and guide young people before they descend into crisis. Through a detailed conversation with YPM's founder, Maks Ezrin, and Jack Vaughn, Director of US Operations, we explore the origins of YPM, inspired by personal journeys of overcoming mental health and substance use issues. The dialogue illuminates YPM's approach to offering non-traditional, in-home mentorship focusing on behavioral and mental health challenges exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. The podcast also addresses the importance of family involvement, the mentor matching process, and the unique executive functioning coaching program, EF 12, underscoring the organization's commitment to fostering self-regulation and resilience in the youth they serve. This episode offers profound insights into how targeted mentorship and personalized support can pivot young individuals away from potential futures of addiction and mental health struggles, towards thriving, balanced lives. 00:00 Introduction: The Need for Preventative Measures 01:02 Welcome to Finding New Waters: Meet the Guests 01:50 The Origin Story of Youth Prevention Mentors 02:06 The Journey to Sobriety and the Start of a New Career 06:18 The Lightbulb Moment: The Birth of YPM 07:11 The Impact of COVID-19 on Mental Health 07:58 The YPM Approach: Tailored Support for Young Adults 08:34 The Role of Mentors in YPM 08:57 Jack's Journey: From Struggle to Mentorship 12:08 The Importance of Mentor Match in YPM 13:06 The Age Range of YPM's Services 13:55 The YPM Approach: A Case Study 17:02 The Role of Family in the Recovery Process 23:32 The Executive Functioning Coaching Program 26:09 The Mentor Recruitment Process 32:49 The Importance of In-Home Environment 39:47 Conclusion: How to Reach YPM

In this episode of *Finding New Waters*, we sit down with **Nate Faulkenberry**, owner and operator of **Doc’s Place**, a long-term recovery program for men in Brunswick, Georgia. Nate shares his powerful personal story of going from client to leader at Doc’s Place, and how the structure, accountability, and 12-step immersion of the program helped him—and now helps others—build lasting recovery. < Back to Episodes Why Long-Term Sobriety Requires Real Accountability with Nate Faulkenberry 29:36 min | Alexis Haines | Finding New Waters In this episode of *Finding New Waters*, we sit down with **Nate Faulkenberry**, owner and operator of **Doc’s Place**, a long-term recovery program for men in Brunswick, Georgia. Nate shares his powerful personal story of going from client to leader at Doc’s Place, and how the structure, accountability, and 12-step immersion of the program helped him—and now helps others—build lasting recovery. Subscribe "At Doc’s Place, we take everything away so you can finally focus on what matters—yourself." – Nate Faulkenberry Show Notes In this episode of Finding New Waters, we sit down with Nate Faulkenberry, owner and operator of Doc’s Place, a long-term recovery program for men in Brunswick, Georgia. Nate shares his powerful personal story of going from client to leader at Doc’s Place, and how the structure, accountability, and 12-step immersion of the program helped him—and now helps others—build lasting recovery. He discusses the importance of removing distractions, developing adult life skills, and how learning to live without the quick fixes (like drugs, alcohol, relationships, or prestige) is key to healing. Nate also speaks candidly about the hard work required, the beauty of building something from the ground up, and why Doc’s Place isn’t just a program—it’s a community for life. Timestamps: • [00:00] Welcome + Nate’s Background – From client to owner of Doc’s Place • [03:00] What Is Doc’s Place? – Long-term structure, accountability, and 12-step work • [06:00] The Power of Single-Gender Recovery – Eliminating distractions for deeper healing • [10:00] Nate’s Own Story – What made Doc’s Place different when everything else failed • [14:00] Surrender and Humility – Learning to finally take direction • [18:00] Daily Life at Doc’s Place – Meetings, work, chores, and responsibility • [24:00] Who Is Doc’s Place For? – Ideal candidates and what they can expect • [30:00] Terminal Uniqueness & Real Recovery – Breaking through the “I’m different” mentality • [32:00] Final Reflections – Nate on purpose, peace, and building something that lasts Key Points Discussed: 1. Long-Term Recovery Works – Doc’s Place is for men who’ve been to treatment before but need something deeper. 2. Accountability Changes Lives – Residents are required to work, pay their way, and grow up emotionally. 3. No Shortcuts – This program removes distractions like relationships so men can truly focus on themselves. 4. From the Inside Out – Nate shares how the hardest parts of the program were the most necessary. 5. It’s a Brotherhood – More than sober living, Doc’s Place offers lifelong community and support. Guest Bio: Nate Faulkenberry Owner/Operator, Doc’s Place Recovery Nate Faulkenberry is the owner and operator of Doc’s Place Recovery, a long-term men’s recovery program located in Brunswick, Georgia. After going through the program himself in 2016, Nate now dedicates his life to helping other men walk the same path toward structure, accountability, and lasting sobriety. A passionate advocate for 12-step recovery and emotional maturity, Nate is living proof that with the right guidance and willingness, transformation is possible. 🌐 Website: https://www.docsplacerecovery.com(https://www.docsplacerecovery.com/) 📱 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/docsplacerecover(https://www.instagram.com/docsplacerecovery)y Resources Mentioned: • Doc’s Place Recovery: https://www.docsplacerecovery.com(https://www.docsplacerecovery.com/) • Find a 12-Step Meeting: https://www.aa.org(https://www.aa.org/) Follow Us: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery(https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery) • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery(https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery) • LinkedIn: New Waters Recovery | LinkedIn(https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery) • TikTok: TikTok - Make Your Day(https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc) Watch & Listen: • Podcast Website: https://www.findingnewwaters.com(https://www.findingnewwaters.com/) • Spotify: Meeting People Where They Are: Lindsey Humphreys on Recovery Access & Innovation(https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw) • Apple Podcast: Finding New Waters(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608) • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw) • YouTube Music: Your browser is deprecated. Please upgrade.(https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn) #DocsPlaceRecovery #LongTermRecovery #MensSoberLiving #NateFaulkenberry #SoberBrotherhood #12StepRecovery #FindingNewWatersPodcast

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Graham Doerge, a licensed professional counselor, author, and speaker, hosts "Finding New Waters" podcast to explore addiction complexities. His compassionate approach provides a safe space for personal stories, expert interviews, and resources to inspire hope. Finding New Waters About Us Finding New Waters is a podcast dedicated to exploring the complexities of addiction, recovery and the journey to a healthier lifestyle. Through interviews with experts, personal stories, and resources, we aim to provide an understanding of the challenges faced by those struggling with addiction and inspire hope for those in recovery. Our podcast is a safe space for people to gain a greater understanding of addiction and its effects on individuals, families, and the community. The Hosts The Hosts of Finding New Waters B. Reeves Director of Business Development Thomas Hogshead Director of Admissions Dr. Harold Hong Medical Director Justin Mclendon CEO

"Finding New Waters" is a podcast exploring addiction complexities. Personal stories and expert interviews offer understanding of challenges and hope for recovery. It's a safe space to comprehend addiction's impact on individuals, families, and the community.