Listen to Dr. Harold Hong and Graham Doerge discuss the New Waters Recovery Method of detox care. < Back to Episodes A Holistic Approach to Recovery: Uncovering the New Waters Recovery Method with Dr. Harold Hong & Graham Doerge 21:24 min | Dr. Hong & Graham | Finding New Waters Dive into the world of substance detox and recovery as Graham Durge, CEO and founder of New Waters Recovery, engages in an insightful conversation with their medical director, Dr. Harold Hong. Together, they shed light on their unique and holistic approach to addiction treatment, focusing on the integration of cutting-edge detox protocols, comprehensive wraparound care, and alternative therapies to ensure lasting transformation. Play Video Facebook Twitter Pinterest Tumblr Copy Link Link Copied Subscribe "So the holistic therapies are there to re-energize and rejuvenate you. . But more than that it's, these are things that emotionally healthy people do every day." Dr. Harold Hong Podcast Transcript Graham Doerge: [00:00:00] So, good afternoon. My name is Graham Durge and I'm the CEO and founder at New Waters Recovery, and I'm sitting here today with our medical director, Dr. Harold Hong. And we wanted to talk about a couple different things here today. And just very, very fortunate. I feel so fortunate to have Dr. Hong here on our team. You know, I've been doing this for, for a very long time now, and, you know, we've worked with a lot of medical professionals and, you know, it's very hard to find somebody who. Understands the, you know, number one, the detox process, but really the importance of being kind of on the cutting edge of, you know, what's out there and how we treat our patients. And, you know, Dr. Hong is you know, one of these gentlemen who really loves to just absorb himself in the research. And you know, by virtue of that, you know, we, we have a couple really interesting things going on here at New Water's. Recovery we're using. . So very new kind of detox protocols. Not, not new in the sense that they've just been created in the last, you know, year or two. They've actually been u utilized, [00:01:00] you know, throughout the country for some time now. But you know, for whatever reason or not, they're not really highly used in the substance use world. So I love to open it up to him and talk a little bit more about, you know in his role here, how he supports our, our. And also, you know, talk a little bit about the holistic modalities that we, that we put forth here, and really the importance of, of, of that in in helping our clients stabilize successfully. Yeah. Dr. Harold Hong: Well thanks for that intro, Graham, that . You're too kind. Really. Hmm. It's great. So I think that the, what makes new detox so special is that it's not just about having the right medications. It, it's truly holistic, like, Soup to nuts. So on, on the, there's three things that make this detox truly unique. Like best in class, one of a kind. The first is the way we do things with medications. The second piece is the wraparound care with the nursing staff and the recovery advocates. And the third piece is the [00:02:00] holistic therapies. The. It's when you put all three of these things together, that's truly a holistic detox, not just from the substances, but the behaviors, the mindsets, the people, places and things outside this facility. It's an incredible end-to-end experience, getting people a fresh, clean start, and then the aftercare referrals to the best quality residential treatments. That's really like the finishing piece for this detox. I'm happy to talk about each of those pieces a little bit more. Mm-hmm. . Graham Doerge: Yeah, and I think it's also really interesting because you know, I see you on a day-to-day basis engaging with our clients, right. And I think that you engage with our clients in a way that not a lot of other professionals do at, at, you know, at at other facilities. And, and you really have the. You put so much time forth and and you really spend, you know, a great, a great deal of time getting to know them and getting to know their history and getting to know their family history and all of those different aspects, cuz that's so, so essential in kind of understanding the whole [00:03:00] person. But you know, again, you know, that's not always done. It's, it's, you know, unfortunately in the medical, you know, world today we've, we're kind of bogged down by these, you know, 15 to 30 minute appointments that are, you know, kind of in and out, you know, and, and it's, and it's. , I think it's hindered our, our, our medical system a lot. So you know, talk a little bit about that and the importance of that. Yeah, Dr. Harold Hong: absolutely. So I, I'm coming from a, a particular story myself where I am a, I am a recovery from family of organ trauma, and I see how that, that those difficulties and the way that it set. , it led me to get into like kind of processes that would take me outta reality which is just another form of addiction. Mm-hmm. . So at the end of the day, addiction is a way of escaping reality to escape emotional pain for people that don't know how to deal with it and an emotionally appropriate or mature manner. And so I had this great dinner with Desiree Saini and some of our other like esteemed providers in the c. And [00:04:00] this one therapist said this line that just, I'll always remember, she said, wherever there's addiction, there's trauma. Mm-hmm. , right? And so we're, we're trying to do more than just detox here, right? Like, we're trying to help people get to the root. We're trying to, people find total transformation from the beginning. And so I feel like if we're not getting into the root causes, like what's the story underlying the addictive behaviors, what's the story underlying the difficulties dealing with emotional? We're, we're doing a huge disservice, right? So we have the time, we have the opportunity. We're trying to find the right setting for Africa. If you know how to have the conversation and you can get to the answer in a safe way, it's definitely no regrets. Go for it. And it, it's a really spiritual and professionally like, super rewarding experience to have those conversations with people. And when they have it in a safe way, they find relief, they find joy, they find. Mean, that's a good day. Graham Doerge: Yeah, that's a good day. And also I feel like, you know, so many of [00:05:00] these people have not been honest with their providers. Right. And they're scared to, and this is maybe the first time where they're absolutely like, okay, I can actually be honest with this person because he's kind of, you know, he is meeting, we meeting with empathy, with love, with compassion and all these things and mm-hmm. And, and unfortunately you're just not gonna get that everywhere, you know? And that's just, that's not the norm, you know, in this field right now. Dr. Harold Hong: I, I love the that saying, not right now. Right, right. Because yes, the, it, it is totally doable. It's totally possible. It is so much more joyful practice to do it that way. Yeah. Where you're seeing people authentically dream the empathy of respect and dignity and I mean that's, that's totally a foundational principle of my own personal recovery is everyone is precious and wonderful. Mm-hmm. in their own way, everyone is doing their. No one is a lost cause. No one deserves to have a painful, horrible life, right? People deserve to be treated with respect and dignity because they [00:06:00] are precious and wonderful people. And when you go into the room and you begin by seeing the precious wonder that they are, your eyes light up and you can see them peacefully. Mm-hmm. , they, the guard goes down and the answers come out. Yeah. And it's. It feels good to do the right thing the right way. Graham Doerge: Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. And you know, one of the other, you know, pieces that we really layered into this, this program and was, was so important to me as we were kind of building out, you know, all the programmatics was you know, obviously developing all these holistic modalities as well. So, you know, we, we here are doing, you know, yoga almost on a daily basis. It's really. What do we call it? Restorative yoga, which is, you know, it's pretty light yoga, but, you know, it's so important even at this, this phase of, of detox and at this early stage in, in the process too. Get up, get outta bed, start moving, start, you know, just getting the blood flowing a little bit. Absolutely. And it makes you feel so much better. And Absolutely. You know, that's kind of the start of the day. And then our clients go [00:07:00] into meditation and they start every day with, with a meditation group. And, you know, throughout the day they're getting services such as yoga or, or, or, excuse me, acupuncture, massage utilizing our infrared sauna, doing IV therapy. And then we, you know, we actually just started doing some breath work with some clients, you know, about a month and a half. and have gotten incredible feedback from that. So, and that's something that I do in my own personal recovery and I think is just such a powerful, powerful tool to, so, you know, and, and, and it's interesting because, you know, a lot of folks who kind of come in and talk to us are saying, you know, this is really early in the process to be doing a lot of this stuff for some people. And, and it's kind of my opinion that it's like, it's never too early. I mean, we need to, we need to get these people, you know, starting to do this stuff now so that they can start adapting these tools because these are the things that are gonna help them. The complexities of life and sobriety. Wonderful. Right? 1%. But you know, yes. There, there's a, there's a complete holistic, you know, a piece to that. But then there's also the underlying kind of medical component too. And this actually, [00:08:00] these modalities are. helping people to stabilize quicker, get to baseline quicker, and just have a more pleasant experience while they're going through detox. Right. So can you talk a little bit about that? Dr. Harold Hong: Yes, it, yeah. I'm super excited about how the detox protocols and the holistic therapies are just going like together, like peanut butter and jelly. Right, right. So the traditional detox protocol is they would call like a symptom trigger therapy. So you would wait for a person to go into moderate to severe with. you would assess them frequently, like several times an hour. And every time their score hits a certain number, you give them medications, you reassess. And if it's still going up, you give them more or more. And so people are always feeling on the bubble of being unwell and they're getting medications that tend to make you feel unwell too. So it's, it's quite normal for a detox to be spending the first two or three days in. Just dealing with the detox process itself, right? But what we're so excited and we're seeing here is with the benzo [00:09:00] sparing protocol, people are having very low symptom severity scores. They're going downstairs, having breakfast, going to yoga, and sitting in group. On day one, and this is just like really impressive. This happens consistently. It's almost like to be expected rather than the conventional protocol where that's more like the exception to the rule, right? So that's a game changer. Mm-hmm. . And we just recently had a client this last week who I think really embodies that whole experience and how, what that unlocks, what that enables. So she was feeling great on day. . I saw her early in the morning and she was feeling anxious about how this detox was gonna go. Like what things would look like for her at work. Like how does she keep her, her disease, a secret from her colleagues and just tons of anxiety. I saw her the next day in the afternoon and I was expecting a little bit of, you know, how do I kind of de-stress or reframe the, the challenges that she's [00:10:00] seeing? And it, I was shocked because it's so worth her. . I've had the most wonderful day ever, , and I was like, oh, tell me more about what's been going on. And she said, it's been years since I've done yoga. It's been years since I've done meditation. I've, I've always had this thought in the back of my mind that I should be doing these things cuz I know it'll help me. But actually felt more guilty that I didn't do those things. And it's just so, it feels so good to do this again. Yep. And I was, I was just so happy for. But then I reflected back to her that, you know, we're doing this for two reasons. You know, one is we feel like holistic therapies are getting people re-energized. Like just your body's beat up, your body's stressed, you're dehydrated, you're under undernourished. Lots of problems. So the holistic therapies are there to re-energize and rejuvenate you. . But more than that, it's, these are things that emotionally healthy people do every day. Mm-hmm. , right? Like the, the [00:11:00] life that, and the daily rhythms that we're creating for the clients here. This is just what healthy people do ordinarily, right? Yep. Right. And I think it's, it, it, it brings me back to this moment where I was leaving a really powerful residential therapy experience for myself personally. And, you know, we had all had this very powerful. , we're all thinking for ourselves. Now we're going back to the real world. Okay. And that's scary. The group facilitator, just, this is another phrase I'll always remember, he said, what you are going back to is the ordinary world where people do things in the ordinary way, and we know how that works for most people down well, right. The real world is actually where you are. Right. , the real world is here where we're talking about what's really going on and dealing with it in a realistic way. Mm-hmm. , and that, that just perfectly captures what this woman was talking about. Mm-hmm. in her ordinary [00:12:00] world, she lived this ordinary way of doing things where we're used to neglecting ourselves. We're used to just pushing ourselves super hard at work, pushing ourselves super hard with friends and family, but not keeping stock of where are my needs, where are my wants at? How do we get that met in an appropriate. This is a place where we give people back on the treadmill of understanding how to do that in a realistic way, and it's so extraordinary for people to experience that, but that's what we hope they take back and make their reality. Yeah. So they're getting detoxed from alcohol, from opiates, but also from these ordinary dysfunctional waste, right. That we normally get. . Graham Doerge: Yeah. I mean, that's beautiful. And I, and I always think back to, you know, listen, we need to, first and foremost, you know, we need to arrest the addiction, right? And we need to kind of, you know, get, you know, we need to separate that piece, and that's what we're kind of doing here and dealing with the kind, the crisis and all of that piece. But it really, it's such a beautiful thing to see see the clients really grabbing hold of these, of these, you know, various services that we [00:13:00] have. And, and then just having such an impact. And, and as you said, you know, we, I think it was our, our second or third client, the gentleman came in and. I don't even feel like I'm detoxing. And, you know, and that was when you kind of explained to me this detox, the benzo sparing protocol in, in a little more detail. And I'd love, you know, for our audience to, to hear a little bit more about that as well. Yeah. Because I think it really is, it's cutting edge stuff and I hope more facilities do start utilizing it because it really has been so successful for us. And, you know, listen, this, this doesn't have to be a traumatic experience, right? It doesn't have to be a super uncomfortable experience. We can, we can do this in a really comfortable manner and do it with respect and dignity and, and do it so that you're set up for success when you leave here, right? So, mm-hmm. . So talk to us a little bit about the benzo sperum protocol. Dr. Harold Hong: Sure, sure. Yeah. So the Benzo Spring Protocol is a departure from how we initiate moderating your nourisher as bears. Okay. In the traditional method, we use something like Ativan. You could also use Valium or Librium. These [00:14:00] are all like siblings to each other in the same family, and what they do is they hit the same receptor that alcohol hits essentially. And when we drink alcohol, it brings our adrenaline levels down and brings our glutamate levels down. And those are excitatory transmitters. So when you, when people drink, they feel suppressed. When you take away alcohol, you get a surge of a adrenaline. You get a surge of glutamate. And that's why when people are te detoxing, they get shakes, they get tremors. They get sweats, their heart races, their blood pressure shoots up and it can get so excited that you actually have a seizure. Yeah. Right. So in the traditional method, we use Ativan, Valium, Librium, something in that family because it's like alcohol for your brain. Mm-hmm. and like super interesting side. The first detox happened in ancient Greece, and it was people going away to a residential facility getting a [00:15:00] jug of wine. And every day they got a new jug, but the jug would have more water in it as each day went by. Hmm. And so they were literally being tapered off of alcohol in ancient times. And that is basically similar to how we still do it, right? Yeah. Right. Graham Doerge: And you'd think we would've found a better way at this point. Well, here Dr. Harold Hong: we are. Here we are. Here we are, right? Yeah. So these, they're neuroscientists who are focusing on seizure states, delirium states. They're looking at how alcohol causes these things, and they're saying it's because there's a surge. There's a storm of adrenaline, there's a storm of glittering. And interestingly, the one way that your brain protects yourself from alcohol is it stops making the gap or receptor. So that makes detox very difficult for some people because you're giving ati. , but there's nowhere for it to land. Hmm. There's nowhere for it to cause the downstream effect of bringing the adrenaline down, bringing the glutamate down. And those people will commonly have what we call a complex withdrawal, and they may need to be [00:16:00] managed in an intensive care unit. Yep. But again, these neuroscientists, they find, okay, the problem isn't, how do we simulate GABA enough? Hmm. The problem is how do we calm the surge of adrenaline and the surge of glutamate? And for people who don't have that GABA receptor, like what can we do? And they said, we actually know that there's a bunch of medications that bring those neurotransmitters down. Claine, guine, gabapentin, topiramate. We know for sure that these medicines bring those neurotransmitters down. What would happen if we used those medications instead? And so Dr. Mal at Sanford Healthcare and then the Kaiser Permanente system in Northern California picked. And this last year they released this study that involved tens of thousands of patients using the banzo spraying protocol. And it showed that it was faster so people were ready to discharge much faster than people ons a or other protocols. And it was safer and viewer transmission transfers to icu. Mm-hmm. . So [00:17:00] it's essentially better, faster. and the clinicians for using this, they'll say, you'll know who's on the Benzel Spa protocol because there are the people who are sitting comfortably in unsure of reading the New York Times. Right. And you know the people that are on the other protocol because they're in bed feeling uncomfortable and they might be a little bit confused. Right? Graham Doerge: Yep. So that's the critical reason here. And it's, and it's tough too because you, you have clients that come to us who. You know, treatment savvy, we'll say, and are maybe med seeking, and they want Ativan and they want these medications. Right. And, you know, we're, we, it's our job to kind of educate them on that this is a, a better, faster, safer, you know, protocol. And, and, and try to kind of help 'em navigate that. But it is interesting how you see, you know, despite that information and that knowledge, people still kind of, you know, they wanna hold onto that, that that crutch still. Yeah. Absolut. Yeah. Dr. Harold Hong: As a clinician, having massaged acupuncture, breath work, [00:18:00] yoga, meditation, high quality group therapy, high quality individual assessments, like having that backstop of all of those supportive services, it makes my job so much easier. Graham Doerge: Totally. A hundred percent. And, and also, you know, I think as well you know, it just keeps the clients busy, right? And that's a huge, huge piece. You know, if you haveli, if you have 20 clients in your facility and you know, they're all just kind of hanging out and they're in bed and there's not a lot going on, and maybe there's a group here, but they're not really, you know, forced to engage in, in any services or anything like that. And we don't force anybody to, to engage in services, but we highly recommend it. Right. Yeah. We, and our team does a very good job at getting people, you know, involved and, and it's really for their benefit. Because listen, our head is a scary place, you know, and if we're just sitting in bed and and just kind of ruminating about this, Our, the substances that we're, that we're using to self-medicate have been taken away from us. And now all these feelings and these emotions and these urges and all this stuff has kind of come flooding in. [00:19:00] Yeah. And it's like we gotta keep ourself engaged and busy and out of our head and, and these, you know, these modalities that we, that we offer here, do a great job of that. And I think by virtue of that, we have a lot. people leaving against medical advice. Mm-hmm. . And it just, you know, from an operational perspective, it, it, it really helps from a lot of different Dr. Harold Hong: angles on my own. Hundred percent. Yep. If you're, if you're going six year, six months, six years of drinking, like living in intoxicated state, there's a lot of problems that have accumulated over that time. Yes. And going 4, 5, 7 continuous days without being, I. , it's a terrifying time of taking stock of all the things that have happened. Yep. But at the end of the day, it's, it is perfectly realistic and okay to take one step at a time, like one small bite at a time, and, and you'll get through all those problems. You'll process it. But if you get into your head, you get into your old ways of thinking and forecasting catastrophe, and you're, there's, there's nothing good for you [00:20:00] in your. Yep. Yeah. It's hard to take a positive step forward. Yeah. Right. But having all these positive activities, having positive people and realistic people talking through that moment. Yeah. Graham Doerge: Hold. Yep. It is, it really is. Well, it's been a pleasure spending some time with you today and, and is getting a little bit more information on, on some of those procedures and processes and we look forward to hearing more from Dr. Hong in the future. All right, thanks Show Notes A Holistic Approach to Recovery: Uncovering the New Waters Recovery Method with Dr. Harold Hong Description: Dive into the world of substance detox and recovery as Graham Doerge, CEO and founder of New Waters Recovery, engages in an insightful conversation with their medical director, Dr. Harold Hong. Together, they shed light on their unique and holistic approach to addiction treatment, focusing on the integration of cutting-edge detox protocols, comprehensive wraparound care, and alternative therapies to ensure lasting transformation. Dr. Hong shares his personal journey, emphasizing the significance of addressing underlying trauma in the addiction recovery process. He explains how New Waters Recovery's detox program stands out from the rest, not only due to its carefully tailored medications, but also through the all-encompassing support provided by their nursing staff and recovery advocates. The incorporation of holistic therapies further elevates their approach, leading to a truly transformative detox experience for clients. Listen as they discuss the importance of establishing meaningful connections with clients, taking the time to delve into their history, family background, and personal experiences to understand the individual on a deeper level. In a world where many medical professionals are burdened by short appointments, the compassionate and empathetic care at New Waters Recovery sets a new standard for treatment. Hear Dr. Hong's reflections on the profound impact of honest, safe, and open communication between clients and providers, and how this level of trust and understanding can lead to breakthroughs in the healing process. Together, they envision a future where this level of patient-centered care becomes the norm, fostering a more rewarding and effective approach to addiction recovery. Don't miss this thought-provoking discussion on the power of a holistic approach to recovery, and how the innovative methods at New Waters Recovery are making a lasting difference in the lives of their clients. #HolisticRecovery #AddictionTreatment #SubstanceDetox #NewWatersRecovery #DrHaroldHong #GrahamDoerge #DetoxProtocols #WraparoundCare #AlternativeTherapies #PatientCenteredCare #UnderlyingTrauma #AddictionRecoveryProcess #CompassionateTreatment #RecoveryAdvocates #EmotionalHealing #SubstanceAbuse #TransformativeDetox #AddictionAndTrauma #HealingJourney #RecoverySupport

In the "Mind, Body, Healing" episode, Natasha Silverbell shares her recovery journey and how it inspired Silverbell Coaching's holistic approach to substance use and mental health issues. The discussion stresses breaking generational trauma patterns and maintaining work-life balance in recovery. < Back to Episodes Breathing Life into Recovery: An Interview with Kelsey Rudzinsky 42:28 min | Kelsey Rudzinsky | Finding New Waters In this riveting episode of Finding New Waters, breathwork specialist Kelsey Rudzinsky delves deep into the transformative power of conscious breathing. She opens up about her personal journey and shares how breathwork helps her clients release past trauma, connect with their emotions, and redefine their life paths. Kelsey's enlightening conversation with Justin Mclendon and B. Reeves offers a fresh perspective on addiction recovery and mental wellness. Discover the healing potential within your own breath in this episode. Don't miss it! Subscribe "Breathwork was a tool that just allowed me to feel my body again, and feel my emotions again." -Kelsey Rudzinsky Podcast Transcript #18 Kelsey Rudzinsky Kelsey Rudzinsky: [00:00:00] Throughout life, things happen to us. To all of us, right? We experience things and. The energy of those experiences, whether they happen to us personally or even if they've happened to our ancestors, right? These energies are in our bodies until we're able to move them. Hmm. And so breath work is. Using the breath in, and I call it work because it's hard, right? Kelsey Rudzinsky: You have to focus on your breath while you're doing the active breathing, and the mind doesn't want to let go of control because that's what we perceive as safety. So the mind's like, no, no, no, no. Like we're not doing this. Let me think about this. Or Let me call this person. Or, this is so dumb, I'm not doing this person here. Kelsey Rudzinsky: And then all of a sudden, Something switches.[00:01:00] Kelsey Rudzinsky: Good afternoon. My name is Graham Durge, and I'm the founder and c e o of New Waters Recovery in Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome to our weekly podcast, finding New Waters. Our goal in creating Finding New Waters is to provide a resource for families to help navigate the complexities of supporting a loved one struggling with substance use or mental health. Kelsey Rudzinsky: When we find ourselves in crisis due to one of these issues, most people have no idea where to turn. We hope to shed some light onto what is off in the darkest hour for many Justin Mclendon: families. Hey, doing guys. Thank you for joining us today on another episode of, uh, finding New Waters podcast. Uh, my name's Justin McClennan. Justin Mclendon: I'm the executive director, also licensed therapist here at New Waters Recovery. And, uh, we are joined today. We have B Reeves, our director of uh, admissions and outreach with us and our [00:02:00] special guest on the show today is Kelsey Rudzinski, uh, certified breathwork facilitator. Uh, Kelsey also facilitates breath work here at New Waters twice a week for our clients. Justin Mclendon: And, uh, I, I must say it's probably out of all of the things that we do, it's probably literally their best, their, their favorite thing that they get to do as they're, as they're here with us. So That's awesome. Mm-hmm. So, Kelsey, instead of trying to, uh, introduce you for you, I thought maybe we could open up and let you, uh, just talk a little bit about who you are and all that good stuff. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Sure, yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Um, So I am a registered nurse, a certified breathwork facilitator, and a reiki master practitioner. So I feel like I have a good balance of science and western medicine with, um, spirituality and a little bit more of the holistic space. And so I. Create, um, [00:03:00] classes, workshops, and guided experiences for people to experience the power of their breath. Kelsey Rudzinsky: That's Justin Mclendon: awesome. Yeah. That's very cool. Yeah. So, so we talked about maybe starting with like a cleansing Kelsey Rudzinsky: breath. Yeah. So the way that I like to start every group, every day, um, as often as possible, you know, one of, um, My favorite authors, Eckert Toll, um, who wrote The Power Of Now? Yes. In his book, which is a wonderful book, um, in his book, A New Earth, he says that by taking a cleansing breath, you, we are creating space in the the incessant stream of thinking, right? Kelsey Rudzinsky: We're always thinking. So even one breath creates space and a gap. So, If we could start with three cleansing breaths. So for the listeners, if you are somewhere where you can close your eyes, take a minute and just relax your body, straighten your spine, relax your [00:04:00] shoulders. I notice that right now my heart is racing pretty fast. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Um, I'm on this beautiful set and excited about this conversation, and so just noticing how you're feeling inside your body, and we're gonna inhale in through the nose and then exhaling out the mouth with a sigh. And so inhaling in and feeling yourself filled with oxygen. And then as you exhale, just feeling the tension release from your body. Kelsey Rudzinsky: So inhaling in. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Ah, Kelsey Rudzinsky: inhale in. Kelsey Rudzinsky: And one more time, inhaling in and if it feels good in your body, exhaling with an audible sigh.[00:05:00] Kelsey Rudzinsky: And just noticing here in this moment, after three breaths, if you feel more present, really noticing how you're feeling in this moment, coming fully into the present. And when you're ready, blinking your eyes open. And just noticing if there's a subtle shift. I do. Justin Mclendon: Definitely. I definitely do. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Yeah. My, my heart rate is much more, yeah. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Calm. Yeah. B. Reeves: I love that you, uh, mentioned that this is, uh, from, from a new Earth. I, I love Eckhart totally as well. I. And, um, I didn't know anything about him and somebody gave me a new Earth first. So I actually read that before, uh, the power of now, which I don't think is recommended, but I have that, that book changed my life. B. Reeves: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, and one thing about the breath work, Justin already touched on it being the For sure our most popular thing we do here. And, um, everybody [00:06:00] for the most part is terrified to do it. It's true. And don't, they don't want to do it. I had a. A personal friend who came into New Waters not that long ago. B. Reeves: And the day that she arrived, it was a Monday and you were doing breath work that night. And she was like, nah, I think I'm just gonna go to my room. And I said, just, just trust me. Just, just try it. Don't knock until you try it. And she was blown away. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, was, went back Thursday. Wow. And so we, it's, people love it. B. Reeves: Yeah. They absolutely Kelsey Rudzinsky: do. Yeah. It's a really powerful practice of getting people out of their mind and into the body in a way that we don't often experience and. I love that most people come in and especially it seems like, you know, there's some buzz here about it because a lot of the staff has tried it. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. So people come in like, I've heard this is gonna be powerful. And you know, I always say, I don't know, it might be right. And I really just try to create an environment where it's like, [00:07:00] Let's just be here. Mm-hmm. And see what happens. And if you wanna listen to my cues of what I'm suggesting, great. Kelsey Rudzinsky: And if you just wanna lay there, that's great too. Yeah. And after, so in the Monday group, I do a specific breathing technique, which is what I'm certified to facilitate. And I was trained by David Elliot and. This technique after the first few minutes when the mind does let go. Right? Because we just, we live in our minds. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. When people drop into the body and start feeling the sensation in their body and feeling their power, that's where Yeah. The magic starts to happen and I just, you know, am there to support and hold that space, but it's, It's really, really beautiful to witness. Yeah, it's very cool. Justin Mclendon: Yeah, I, I did it myself. Justin Mclendon: Uh, you [00:08:00] know, the first time you came in and did the, uh, before we decided to even move forward with having you come in, we did that kind of complimentary, uh, you know, for the staff. And that was the first, you know, I've done a lot of meditation in the past, but this was the first time that I'd ever engaged in like breath work like this. Justin Mclendon: And, uh, I won't share my experience necessarily. Mm-hmm. But, It was very powerful. Very powerful. I mean, just that one time that I did it, it was really, really cool. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned meditation. Mm-hmm. And for your listeners, we, we talked a little before mm-hmm. And like what is breath work? Kelsey Rudzinsky: Sure. Right. So maybe we back up and even talk about that. Yeah, let's do that. Um, I define breath work as the intentional manipulation of the breath. Um, and, and some people call it pranayama, right? Okay. These are not new modalities. These are ancient eastern techniques that are making their way into our modern society again, because we need it. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. Um, and so, Pranayama. So prana is [00:09:00] life force. Um, that's the translation. And then Yama, or iama means to control. So if we think of oxygen as life force, which it is, we are controlling the life force. And you know, there's a lot more awareness now around energy. Mm-hmm. And the energy within us and that. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Uh, throughout life, things happen to us. To all of us, right? We experience things and the energy of those experiences, whether they happen to us personally or even if they've happened to our ancestors, right? These energies are in our bodies until we're able to move them. Hmm. And so breath work is using the breath in. Kelsey Rudzinsky: And I call it work because it's hard, right? You have to focus on your breath while you're doing the active breathing. Mm-hmm. And the mind [00:10:00] doesn't want to let go of control because that's what we perceive as safety. So the mind's like, no, no, no, no. Like we're not doing this. Let me think about this. Or let me call this person. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Or, this is so dumb, I'm not doing this right like this. Like who is this person here? And then all of a sudden, Something switches. Justin Mclendon: So what? Switches And I, I wonder that myself. Like, what is that? Hmm. Kelsey Rudzinsky: That's it. Um, well, speaking in a, in a more scientific way. Sure. Yeah. Right. So we're moving oxygen and when you get enough oxygen, so. Kelsey Rudzinsky: I love that New Waters teaches about chakras because whenever clients come in and I first, you know, I have my oils that, um, I let people use and I say, you know, these have been specifically blended for the chakras. Does anybody know what the chakras are? And everyone's like, yeah, we just learned about that in a group, which is incredible. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Yeah. Right. Yeah. So the body has these chakras, which [00:11:00] are. Energy centers in the body. So they're essentially picture them as like small little hard drives in our body that have different functions. And some might see chakras as like esoteric, right. But they actually correlate with the ductless glands that are in our body. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Right. Interesting. So we have like the pituitary gland. The thyroid gland, the adrenal glands, right? So like we have these ductless glands that all have really specific functions that heavily impact the body mm-hmm. That are associated with chakras. And so as we're breathing and we get more oxygen moving in the body, Eventually the, uh, oxygen stimulates the hypothalamus gland, and that is where endorphins are released. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Right? And endorphins are the hormone, the feel-good hormones mm-hmm. That we experience when we eat something delicious or have sex or [00:12:00] maybe drink alcohol, right? So these hormones that help us feel more in the body, and so as those endorphins make their way down through the body, People start to experience a higher vibration, more sensation until and when it comes upon some sort of block. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Right. And this isn't a conscious process, so it's not like you're thinking about it. And that's where, you know, many people share after breathing. Like all of a sudden I just started crying. Mm-hmm. I don't know why I don't like, I just, and I haven't cried in years. Right. And so, What's really beautiful is it's not a conscious process. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Um, we're really getting in the body and yeah. That's very cool. Yeah, that's very Justin Mclendon: cool. It's super cool. So the blocks that come up is that, um, Like you said, it's not a conscious [00:13:00] process, but that could be, it sounds like that could be a thought or an emotion or something that's just kind of Kelsey Rudzinsky: there. Yeah. It could be a thought pattern. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. It could be a trauma that we experienced. Mm-hmm. Right. At some point in our lives, it could be from a physical injury that we've had and we have scar tissue in our body. Mm-hmm. Um, Have either of you ever read The Body Keeps the Score. I have, yeah. Yeah. So it's a great book. So working with that concept that like our body does hold onto what we experience, what we perceive around us, and a lot of what. Kelsey Rudzinsky: My teacher bases his work around. And what really resonates with me is this idea of, um, we are primarily blocked in our sacral chakra, which is the second chakra. And, and this is as a collective, right? But also individually. And that's what deals with, um, power, sex, [00:14:00] money, safety, um, that's here. Right, and so using the breath work to really unblock the second chakra, to open the fourth chakra, which is the heart. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Justin Mclendon: So what, uh, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of got you into, what piqued your interest, what kind of like initiated the this path for you? Kelsey Rudzinsky: Yeah, sure. My own healing. Okay. Yeah. My own curiosities and. Um, specifically with, um, like my womb space and my feminine energy. Kelsey Rudzinsky: I grew up in the states, which is, you know, we live in a very masculine society. That's like, go to school, go to college, get a job, work out, do all right, do all the things. And when we do that, I was just in this like, go, go, go state. And then I had realized, you know, like I wasn't getting a [00:15:00] period, I wasn't connected to my body. Kelsey Rudzinsky: And so on my own quest, um, I had been on birth control, like 98% of American women are at some point. Mm-hmm. I had been on it for 15 years. And what we're learning now about birth control is that it completely alters the way the entire body is functioning. Mm. Um, and so I realized that I didn't even know how my body worked or what it was, and so I was at the time living on St. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Thomas in the Virgin Islands. Okay. As one does, and, um, was connected with. A womb healer, which I didn't know what that was either at the time. Um, and she introduced me to this breathing practice, and the first time I did it felt like, And, and I had been doing work before that of like meditation and journaling and a lot of [00:16:00] self-inquiry. Kelsey Rudzinsky: So I had sort of been on the path of like, what is going on Sure. In life, right? Yeah. Like what is this? Um, what am I doing here? Who am I? And so doing a lot of that work I think, prepared me for this so that when I first tried the breath work, It felt like a coming home to my body that I had never experienced. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm. And as I continued doing, it was really able to, one, get my period back. Okay. Which was like, what? Like some, right, because it was this tangible result of like, can I swear on here? Yeah. Okay. Like, holy, I, no, yeah, just go for it. Holy shit. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Like, holy shit, right? Like, Whoa, this, you know, and then starting as I continued to breathe, having these experiences of things, of memories coming up. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Yeah. That I didn't think of these things, right. [00:17:00] Like a car accident that I got in when I was eight years old, that. I don't think about, oh wow. And all of a sudden in breath work, I'm back as that little girl in that space and now in the safe space being held by somebody who's encouraging me to feel what you're feeling and, and what is that sensation to. Kelsey Rudzinsky: To feel what I wasn't able to feel at the time. Wow. And that is so much of what we experience, right? That at the time when something happens, whether we're young or whether we're just at a space in life where like we gotta just keep going. We're not able to feel these things and. In order to clear and move this energy, we have to feel it. Kelsey Rudzinsky: That's amazing. Yeah. And so I continued practicing and working with this teacher and just felt like more people need to experience this. [00:18:00] So I, um, went to the healer training and deepened my own practice and yeah, just feel really grateful and honored to be able to share it and. It's like every time I get to witness somebody experience this in themselves, it it's incredible. Kelsey Rudzinsky: That's cool. Yeah. That's very cool. Yeah. Justin Mclendon: So it sounds like you get, you get a lot of, there's a lot of meaning. There's a lot Kelsey Rudzinsky: of, uh, totally. Yeah. And, and I find that the deeper that I am able to go within myself and the more disciplined I am with, with my work. By far because it's energy, right? Sure. We're working with energy. Kelsey Rudzinsky: The more that people feel safe to do the same within themselves. Do you ever B. Reeves: see people who kinda go within themselves and then they uncover something like you said this when you're eight something you don't remember, but something's super horrible. Then they, it comes out and [00:19:00] then they're don't know what to do with that. B. Reeves: Especially in, you know, in early when they're in detox. Has that happened? Kelsey Rudzinsky: Totally. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, and that's where. Having that support, having someone hold the space to be there, to witness that and to offer the space after to process, to share, and then also highly encouraging using support systems. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. Right. Like I think therapy and breath work together is like, Like, it's so good, right? Because we're able to, to talk about these things and get them out and then move that energy through the body or the other way around. B. Reeves: That's cool. Why do you think, uh, it's a meditation. Easter meditation seems to be more of a thing acceptable, but I didn't know anything about breath work really until I found myself in recovery, but still didn't know anything really about it until you came in. B. Reeves: So why do you think that [00:20:00] it's, it's so powerful. Everybody loves it. Why is it, why does it take so long? Just because it's Eastern. Kelsey Rudzinsky: I think a lot of the best things have been hidden. Covered up. Lost. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. And, and they are making their way back by the people who are feeling called to share and lead, and. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Yeah, and be brave enough to put it out there because it is new and it is. I also think that your question about people uncovering something really big and not knowing what to do with it is so important, and that's where. Truly creating a space that feels supported and knowing that I would never leave somebody who, who needs help. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Right. And, and my background as a registered nurse, I worked in mental health for six years. Mm-hmm. So [00:21:00] I feel like I can only speak for myself. Sure. But because I've. Learned and seen how to hold some of those deeper, more tender spaces. I feel safe doing it, but I do think it's really important that people that are holding these spaces for people to go deep, need to need to know what they're doing. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Right. I also feel like something that is also really cool about the breath that I've experienced. And why I feel comfortable coming into a space like this where it's like you have people from all different walks of life mm-hmm. With all backgrounds and all awareness, all different types of awareness, of healing modalities coming in. Kelsey Rudzinsky: And I'm saying like, all right, you have no idea what, what room you just walked into and let's go in there. The reason that I feel comfortable to do that is because the breath. I [00:22:00] find really meets people where they're at. So it won't take you further than you're ready to go. Like when I uncovered that memory, I was ready. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. And that's where, and, and another, um, another concept that my teacher David Elliot talks about is this pyramid of, um, The layers of being human. Right? And the first is the physical. And that's the foundational and that's, um, caring for our physical body and physical energy. And that's where most people spend most of our lives, right? Kelsey Rudzinsky: Like, um, and that includes, A physical disability disease, chronic disease, an obsession with the body. Mm-hmm. Over exercising, eating disorders, poisoning the body with substances and sugar and cigarettes and things like that. Right. And then above that, the next layer is the emotional layer, [00:23:00] and then above that is the mental layer and above that is spiritual, right? Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. And they all build upon each other. And so I. Find that a lot of people, especially here, right, that have probably spent decades, In the physical layer. Right. Whether that is, I mean, most of us do. Mm-hmm. With the obsession of our bodies and how we look or consuming substances and numbing out. And so then when they come into breath work, all of a sudden this emotional layer sort of opens. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. And these people are able to. Let go a little bit and tap into that deeper layer, which is part of why, you know the Monday group is called Releasing Through Breath, because I really encourage people, if you start to feel something, let it flow, let it B. Reeves: go. What's the difference between what you do on Mondays and Thursdays? Kelsey Rudzinsky: So Mondays is a guided [00:24:00] experience through. With the breathing technique, um, that I've been talking about. Thursdays is a functional breathing group. So something that I've found as I've been sharing breath work is, and I'm like, let's, let's do the deep work. Like let's get in there. But most people. Don't even know how to breathe. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. So Thursday is a functional breathing group where we go over four different breathing techniques, when to use them, how to use them, and then offering time for people to really practice them and notice within their body the subtle changes of, of how they feel. Justin Mclendon: That's awesome. So cool. Yeah, it's B. Reeves: very cool. B. Reeves: Yeah, I, I mean, I've, without ever, unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to take your class, but I'm, or come to one of your sessions, but I will. Yeah. But I've picked up a little bit of here and there over just for breath breathing techniques of even, you know, [00:25:00] YouTube them. I mean, in my, when I was in my first few years of, of sobriety, I mean, I was a basket case and I would be, you know, get some news that I couldn't handle, whether it was relationship or work related. B. Reeves: And I would just breathe for a little while. And it's amazing how much, you know, I'm sure I was doing it wrong and it still helped me tremendously. You can't do it wrong, but, you know, I just, well, that's, thank you. Yeah, I need to hear that. Yeah, because, you know, I still, you know, I still like to feel good, but I just don't have drugs and alcohol to make that happen. B. Reeves: So I, uh, I look forward to. Investigating further into breath work. Justin Mclendon: Yeah. If something comes up When you were talking about that B, because I think, so as a, as a therapist, I've worked with many people in the past, and I think there's this kind of like, uh, I'm not the only person that's experienced this, right? Justin Mclendon: But, so there's the, this kind of, uh, reoccurring situation, right? Where you're, you're meeting with a client, maybe it's like session number one or two or something like that. And the topic of like fear, anxiety, like that type of content starts to come up and. [00:26:00] At least for myself, a lot of times I will introduce like, you know, a breathing technique, right? Justin Mclendon: Like, hey, you know, let's, let's try this. Let's practice it here and maybe you can start to try and utilize this when it makes sense when you think of it and see if it makes a difference. And it's really funny to me how many times people are like, oh my God, here's another therapist telling me to like breathe again. Justin Mclendon: And they just push it off. But it's so funny that like, Something just as small as being able to like stop and focus on your breath and control your breath for a minute, it really can be very impactful. Mm-hmm. Uh, but it's still, I don't know, I just find it almost laughable that, uh, it's almost every time that I bring it up, somebody's like, oh my God, here we go again. Justin Mclendon: And that's totally, you know, don't knock it till you try. B. Reeves: Well, I mean, and literally everything, if I, before I got sober, Everything that I do now, if I knew it existed, I thought it was ridiculous. Like prayer and meditation, right? Yep. Breath work. Yeah. I didn't really know much about it then, but I would've scoffed that too. B. Reeves: Sure. Um, but every single tool that anybody's ever presented to me has worked. Yeah. Kelsey Rudzinsky: [00:27:00] Yeah. And that's where it's like, I, people need to be ready. Yeah. And you meet, you really meet people where they're at. Right. Um, and I like to think of it as, um, You know, people know about the nervous system. Mm-hmm. That's something that does get taught in school, right. Kelsey Rudzinsky: And that we have these two sides of the nervous system and then we have the vagus nerve. Right. And I think of the vagus nerve as like a highway that goes down our body. And when you think about breath work as a tool, to me breath work is the gear shift. Between the parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Interesting. Okay. Right. And like you're saying, or, or using the breath in general. Mm-hmm. Is a way to quickly switch from a sympathetic fight or flight feeling of anxiety to a much more calm, rest and digest state. Absolutely. Justin Mclendon: Yeah. Yeah. And it's right there at [00:28:00] our fingertips. I mean, we can literally do it at any time, right? Justin Mclendon: Yeah, Kelsey Rudzinsky: yeah. But we live in such a fast-paced world, right? Absolutely. And we live in a world that is constantly pulling us. Externally pulling us outside of ourselves to do this and go there and make your food, and order your coffee supplement and write like all of these different things that we have to do. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Take the kids to practice. Yeah. Go on vacation, go to your meeting. Like these are all things that we're just constantly being pulled outside of ourself. Mm-hmm. And the breath is an invitation. To come back in. And I think when people get to a point, whether that's just through their own curiosity, or most times it is when you know something tragic happens or they get some sort of diagnosis or go into detox, right? Kelsey Rudzinsky: That they start wondering who am I? Mm-hmm. And this is a way to really, I mean, my work is all based on [00:29:00] helping people. Come back to who they truly are. B. Reeves: What percentage of people you work with or you see using breath work are in recovery for of some, some sort? Kelsey Rudzinsky: Everyone. Everyone. Okay. I mean, I think we're all in recovery, right? Kelsey Rudzinsky: Whether that's, I would agree from like program childhood programming, um, abuse in the home, drugs and alcohol. Right? I think. We are living in a time and, and come from a history where we all have experienced trauma, whether we are the perpetrators, ancestrally, or we've been on the receiving end of it. We are in a time where we can't deny that anymore, and the more that we are able to unravel that and admit it, that's where the unity. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Comes back, right? Yeah. We, [00:30:00] because the more that we try to deny it, we're just continuing the division. Mm-hmm. And that's where people are finding themselves feeling more disconnected, more lonely than ever, and more confused and overwhelmed than ever. Yeah. So I think everyone. Yeah. Justin Mclendon: I mean, I would agree with that. Justin Mclendon: Good answer. Yeah, great answer because I agree with that. True. I think we're all kind of, you know, whether it's conscious or not. Right. I think we're all in recovery for something. Right. Or even if, again, if we're completely unaware of that, like there's still a longing or level of dissatisfaction Kelsey Rudzinsky: something. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Yeah. Or noticing the patterns, the mental loops that we find ourself in, whether it's recovering from self-doubt. Mm-hmm. Self-consciousness. Right. Eating disorders. Yeah. I think our, my relationship with food is something that I continue to notice and work on, and so it's just all of these different coping mechanisms that maybe we picked up at some point [00:31:00] in our lives because we needed them. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Yeah. And they helped us get where we are and now we're able to, to look at and unravel if those are serving us anymore. Yeah, Justin Mclendon: absolutely. So, um, So you do breath work here. Mm-hmm. And people love it. Mm-hmm. Uh, you, I know you also have kind of your own private practice and things like that. Maybe spend a few minutes if you could, talking about, um, what other type of services, you know, what kind of, uh, you know, for anybody that's listening, you know, how could they, and we'll put some information in the, in the, in the, uh, podcast notes and things like that on how to contact you and stuff. Justin Mclendon: But, but if somebody wanted to do some breath breath work, like what do you do and all that Kelsey Rudzinsky: stuff. Sure. Yeah. Thanks for asking. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, so I have a website that. Um, I post different events that I'm doing in the area. I don't have a dedicated space, so usually I will, um, rent a space or collaborate with somebody who has a space. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Um, I primarily do group work. I [00:32:00] really love group work. I feel like. Its just like how, you know, one person has a consciousness, a group has a consciousness, and, and feeling that amplified energy of people breathing and opening together. I. Is so magical. So most of what I do is group work. Okay. Um, I do a virtual breathing group every Tuesday evening on Zoom from eight to 9:00 PM Oh cool. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Eastern Standard time. Okay. Yeah. Um, and that's just a really beautiful space to. Come in, you know, during your week, it's called Return to your Breath. And it is a space to show up and share what's alive for you, share an intention for what you're breathing into, and then together breathe from the comfort of your own home. Kelsey Rudzinsky: That's very cool. Yeah, so I do that. Um, right now I'm doing breathing groups for a [00:33:00] summer camp for kids, um, which is amazing. And. I feel really, really grateful to have been asked to do that. Um, and then I do day retreats, so eventually I would like to do some longer retreats. Okay. Um, destination, eventually I'm gonna do a retreat in St. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Thomas. Oh, cool. Um, yeah. Where, you know, a combination of different modalities because, Of course I'm biased about breath work and it is incredibly powerful, but like anything else, it's a tool. Mm-hmm. Right? It's one tool and we need so many different tools and exercise and yoga and eating healthy and healthy relationships. Kelsey Rudzinsky: So I love collaborating with different people to create these immersive experiences for people to just again, come back to their most authentic self. That's cool. Justin Mclendon: Yeah, that's very cool. You'll also do some kind of [00:34:00] individual one-on-one stuff too, is that correct? I Kelsey Rudzinsky: do. Yeah. So I. I, I will work with individuals, um, especially if there's something specific that people are wanting to go into. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. I work with couples. It's really powerful to breathe with a partner. Um, and just the energetics of the relationship are really present because again, and if some people are like, oh, no, no, no. Remembering that it's not a conscious process. Right. So this isn't like, Couples therapy where we're talking about, and we're going back and forth. Kelsey Rudzinsky: This is like, let's not talk, let's go in and see what comes up on both ends. It's really powerful. That's cool. Yeah, and I do the same with families. Um, it's, it's really, really beautiful to see a family. Um, Breathing together in this space and allowing whatever comes up to be present. Because we know that family dynamics are really complicated. Kelsey Rudzinsky: They are Justin Mclendon: definitely, I mean, we see [00:35:00] that Kelsey Rudzinsky: every day. Sure. Right. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, Justin Mclendon: we definitely do. Well, that's great. Um, I had another question and it slipped my mind, unfortunately. That's okay. Um, v anything? B. Reeves: No, just I'm, it's a breath of fresh air actually to there, to, to somebody on the podcast that's, you know, not just, you know, standard talking about, you know, drugs and alcohol. B. Reeves: So, and we, and I just wanna reiterate that our clients absolutely love, love it. Mm-hmm. Justin Mclendon: I really do. So keep coming Kelsey Rudzinsky: back. Thank you. Yeah. It feels it's really important work and. It's not about me, right? It's about the people that are ready to experience it, having the opportunity to do that. Yeah. Justin Mclendon: So, you know, and I'll comment on that just from, I mean, again, so I've done it. Justin Mclendon: I've had the opportunity to do it. I would actually love to do more of it because I had a very powerful experience when I did it. Um, [00:36:00] What I think with the clients, um, you know, we do so much stuff, right? Talk therapy. We also had to do a lot of other holistic things. So they are getting massages. They get to, uh, engage in like yoga and there's other like, holistic things that are not kind of like verbally based, if you will. Justin Mclendon: But there is a lot of, there's a lot of group therapy, there's a lot of individual conversations that take place. They're communicating with peers, with the doctors, with the nurses. There's a lot of this kind of. Talking through things and staying in this kind of like, Conscious plane of trying to understand like what are they thinking, what are they feeling, uh, you know, taking ownership of past behaviors, making plans for the future. Justin Mclendon: And it's just really cool. Like you have, have mentioned, um, when they go into this space where like there's not really a lot of talking and, and how much power and insight and just experience that people can, can, uh, get out of, out of doing the breath work. And there's not really any words that are spoken [00:37:00] and, and. Justin Mclendon: I see that as something that's very powerful and very cool, and, and I see a lot of clients taking that kind of, um, that, that away from that experience too, is that so much happened and there were not a whole lot of words that were used, you know, so. Mm-hmm. I don't know. It's just an observation, I guess. Justin Mclendon: Right? Kelsey Rudzinsky: Totally. Yeah. And that's one of the things I love about it. I mean, the human intellect. Mm-hmm. It's one of our, it is our greatest advantage as a species, but it also like, We need some space from it. Yeah. And yeah, after a breathing session, as I'm bringing people back and, and people are starting to come back and be like, whoa. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. I really encourage them like, don't try to make sense of what you just experienced. Right. Yeah. Right. If you are somebody that journals get out your journal and just allow the stream of consciousness to flow of how you're feeling and what came up. But like, It's okay to not have any idea what or why you experienced what you [00:38:00] did. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Yeah. Justin Mclendon: That's cool. Yeah. That's very cool. Yeah. So what would be kind of like, uh, if you had one takeaway that anybody that's listening or watching the podcast, like what would be like one thing, like a call to action, if you will, like, if somebody's interested in breath work, like, you know, what would you, what would you want them to take away from this? Justin Mclendon: Hmm. Kelsey Rudzinsky: The call to action would be to come back to your breath. Mm-hmm. To recognize that there are these really powerful, deep ways to use the breath, like what I offer, and please come to one of my groups, come to one of my classes, retreats, would love to have you. Mm-hmm. And this is something that. We all have access to, it's free, right? Kelsey Rudzinsky: So, and, and I challenge my, um, campers with this every week. Like, give yourself a two minute breathing challenge. Every day. Set a timer on your phone for two minutes and just breathe deep in your [00:39:00] breath. Notice how you feel. Let the breath expand in your body. Allow your exhales to release some of the tension you may be holding, and just notice from there what you experience. Kelsey Rudzinsky: I love it. Yeah, because I, I feel like. I, because we're always breathing and because breathing happens automatically, most people think I know how to breathe like I'm doing it. And really most people are breathing super shallow. Yeah. And so if we go back to the beginning talking about what even is breath and this life force, that is what is feeding ourselves. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Our organs, the more you can expand that breath in your body, think of it as feeding your body, hydrating your body, nourishing your body, so the deeper that you can expand the breath. And what's cool is our bodies are so incredible and so adaptive that even at the [00:40:00] beginning, if you feel like I'm scared of my breath, right? Kelsey Rudzinsky: A lot of people. And that's something that people here have really illuminated for me is that they've shared, you know, when I have a panic attack or when I'm feeling super anxious mm-hmm. It is my breath, right? That feels like I can't catch my breath, right? So when they start breathing, that fear can come up and come back to them. Kelsey Rudzinsky: And so this is a reminder that the breath is safe and the body adapts to that. That's really cool. Yeah, I love that. And I guess one other tip. Sure. If you're gonna open up, brilliant. Go for it. Breath work tips. I can't open myself is to breathe through your nose. Okay. So we have two different ways to breathe right through our nose and through our mouth. Kelsey Rudzinsky: And as we're walking around our everyday lives, we really wanna be breathing through our nose. Mm-hmm. Because, The function of the nose is to breathe. So I think of it as like our built-in air purifier. It moistens the air, it warms [00:41:00] the air. So breathe through your nose, okay? And allow that breath to expand in your body. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Very Justin Mclendon: cool. Awesome. I mean, that's some tips I could probably use for myself. Yeah. I'm gonna B. Reeves: go set my timer in my office right now. Yeah. I promise. You Justin Mclendon: know what's so funny is I, I use an, um, an Apple watch and, uh, every evening about the same time it like dings and it's like, Hey, take a moment and like da da da da da. Justin Mclendon: And like I never do it. I just like dismiss and I just move on. Yeah. So I'm sitting here think, listening to you, and I'm like, you know what? Maybe I should just start taking that opportunity. Right? Yeah. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Take a minute. Yeah. And just take five deep breaths and just know that. Everything that's going on around you and the busyness, it's still gonna be there. Kelsey Rudzinsky: Mm-hmm. So just the more that we can feel centered and calm in our body, the better able we are to show up in our lives for our obligations and for the people that we love. Justin Mclendon: Absolutely. Well, Kelsey, thank you. Thank you, Kelsey. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for, it's been a lot of fun. Thank you B. Reeves: for all you do here, and thank you for being here today. B. Reeves: [00:42:00] Mm-hmm. Justin Mclendon: Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. We'll have to have you back again sometime. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Show Notes In this insightful episode of the "Finding New Waters" podcast, we delve into the transformative power of breath work with our special guest, Kelsey Rudzinsky. Kelsey, a breathwork facilitator and a yoga instructor, enlightens us on how this practice can help those on their journey to recovery. Kelsey takes us on a deep dive into the world of breathwork, detailing its origins, her own unique approach, and the profound impact it can have on both individuals and groups. We learn about the correlation between breathwork and trauma release, and how breath work's silent space helps in processing emotions, healing family dynamics, and fostering personal growth. The conversation also explores the role of breathwork in different contexts including couples therapy and family dynamics, and its importance in holistic treatment plans that incorporate yoga, massage, and other non-verbal modalities. Kelsey discusses the empowering and therapeutic effects of breath work on her clients at the treatment center, and challenges listeners to embrace breathwork in their daily lives. A departure from our regular discussions on drugs and alcohol, this episode offers a refreshing and alternative perspective on recovery strategies. For anyone seeking a new approach to healing, Kelsey's expertise on breathwork serves as a compelling call to action. Join us as we uncover the power and potential of our own breath in the road to recovery. Don't miss out on this fascinating conversation on the transformative power of breathwork in the realm of recovery! Tune in now to this enlightening episode of the "Finding New Waters" podcast. Kelsey's Links: https://linktr.ee/breathewithkelsey Podcast Website: ⁠https://www.findingnewwaters.com(https://www.findingnewwaters.com/) New Waters Recovery Website: ⁠https://newwatersrecovery.com(https://newwatersrecovery.com/) Watch & Listen on Spotify: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw?si=f485f70900204da4(https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw?si=f485f70900204da4) Apple Podcast: ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608⁠(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608) Youtube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw) Youtube Music: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn&feature=share(https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn&feature=share) Google Podcast: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9kZmI2YTk3NC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw(https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9kZmI2YTk3NC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw?authuser=1) Follow Us on Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery(https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery) Facebook: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery⁠(https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery) Linkedin: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery(https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery) Tiktok: ⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc(https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc) For more information, to submit a question for our show, or to explore our affiliated detox center, visit the Finding New Waters website at ⁠https://www.findingnewwaters.com⁠(https://www.findingnewwaters.com/) and the New Waters Recovery Center at ⁠https://newwatersrecovery.com⁠(https://newwatersrecovery.com/). Join us on this transformative journey!

In this empowering episode of Finding New Waters, we sit down with Meredith Brierly—also known online as Clean Coaching Mama—to explore the transformative power of sober living, holistic wellness, and motherhood. Meredith shares her raw and relatable journey through anxiety, addiction, and recovery in New York, to becoming a health coach and leading voice in clean, mindful parenting. < Back to Episodes Clean Living, Honest Recovery: Meredith Brierly on Sobriety, Wellness, and Motherhood 40:34 min | Meredith Brierly | Finding New Waters In this empowering episode of Finding New Waters, we sit down with Meredith Brierly—also known online as Clean Coaching Mama—to explore the transformative power of sober living, holistic wellness, and motherhood. Meredith shares her raw and relatable journey through anxiety, addiction, and recovery in New York, to becoming a health coach and leading voice in clean, mindful parenting. With 13 years of sobriety, she now helps others live low-tox, purpose-driven lives grounded in recovery principles. Whether you’re a parent, in recovery, or simply seeking healthier habits, Meredith’s story offers inspiration and practical takeaways for living well without obsession or perfection. Subscribe “Sobriety is the anchor for everything in our lives. It’s not about being perfect—it’s about being intentional.” – Meredith Brierly Show Notes In this empowering episode of Finding New Waters, we sit down with Meredith Brierly—also known online as Clean Coaching Mama—to explore the transformative power of sober living, holistic wellness, and motherhood. Meredith shares her raw and relatable journey through anxiety, addiction, and recovery in New York, to becoming a health coach and leading voice in clean, mindful parenting. With 13 years of sobriety, she now helps others live low-tox, purpose-driven lives grounded in recovery principles. Whether you’re a parent, in recovery, or simply seeking healthier habits, Meredith’s story offers inspiration and practical takeaways for living well without obsession or perfection. Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome & Introductions 01:00 – Meredith’s Sobriety Journey and Family Life 04:00 – Corporate Life and Addiction in NYC 07:00 – Returning to NC and Her Path to Recovery 12:00 – Treatment, Fellowship Hall, and Early Sobriety 16:00 – January 1st: The Last Drink 21:00 – Rebuilding Identity in Sobriety 26:00 – Sober Weddings, Motherhood, and Boundaries 28:00 – From Recovery to Holistic Coaching 32:00 – Pantry Swaps, Mindfulness, and Low-Tox Living 34:00 – Final Words & How to Connect Key Topics Covered • Why recovery doesn’t stop at sobriety—Meredith’s philosophy on integrated healing • How motherhood, anxiety, and faith intersected in her recovery journey • The dangers of hidden added sugar and low-quality foods • Mindful tools like EFT (tapping) and breathwork for busy parents • How she brings recovery principles into holistic health and family coaching Guest Bio Meredith Brierly Certified Health Coach, Speech Therapist, and Founder of Clean Coaching Mama Meredith Brierly is a Certified Health Coach, speech therapist, and mother of two with 13 years of sobriety. Based in Raleigh, North Carolina, Meredith empowers women and families to live cleaner, more intentional lives through practical coaching, wellness workshops, and free resources. Her work blends recovery wisdom with nutrition, emotional regulation, and low-tox living. Website: https://www.cleancoachingmama.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cleancoachingmama Follow Us Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc Watch & Listen Podcast Website: https://www.findingnewwaters.com Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw YouTube Music: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn SEO Hashtags #MeredithBrierly #CleanLiving #RecoveryJourney #HolisticParenting #SoberMomLife #FindingNewWatersPodcast #MindfulMotherhood #LowToxLiving Powerful Quote “Sobriety is the anchor for everything in our lives. It’s not about being perfect—it’s about being intentional.” – Meredith Brierly

In this empowering episode of Finding New Waters, we sit down with Meredith Brierly—also known online as Clean Coaching Mama—to explore the transformative power of sober living, holistic wellness, and motherhood. Meredith shares her raw and relatable journey through anxiety, addiction, and recovery in New York, to becoming a health coach and leading voice in clean, mindful parenting. < Back to Episodes From Nightclubs to Recovery: Andrew Maloof on Showing Up and Staying Sober 44:16 min | Andrew Maloof | Finding New Waters In this episode of Finding New Waters, B. Reeves sits down with Andrew Maloof, co-founder and CEO of Eagle Creek Ranch Recovery in Boise, Idaho. Andrew reflects on his 12 years of sobriety, his journey from working in Las Vegas nightclubs to owning a treatment center, and how a moment of spiritual surrender changed everything. Together, they dive into what makes treatment effective, why hospitality and connection matter in recovery, and the power of simply showing up. Subscribe “Just show up. Be on time. Be present. You can’t pretend to care, but you can’t pretend to show up.” – Andrew Maloof Show Notes In this episode of Finding New Waters, B. Reeves sits down with Andrew Maloof, co-founder and CEO of Eagle Creek Ranch Recovery in Boise, Idaho. Andrew reflects on his 12 years of sobriety, his journey from working in Las Vegas nightclubs to owning a treatment center, and how a moment of spiritual surrender changed everything. Together, they dive into what makes treatment effective, why hospitality and connection matter in recovery, and the power of simply showing up. Whether you’re sober-curious, in long-term recovery, or supporting a loved one, Andrew’s humility, humor, and real-life experience offer deep insight and encouragement. Timestamps: • [00:00] Welcome & Introduction • [01:00] Sobriety Milestones & The Masters Moment • [04:00] Following Directions: A Recipe for Recovery • [08:00] Fellowship, Inventory, and Staying Connected • [12:00] Embarrassment vs. Empowerment in Getting Sober • [17:00] From UNLV to Las Vegas Nightclubs to Recovery • [20:00] Founding Eagle Creek Ranch Recovery • [24:00] Hospitality in Treatment: Why It Matters • [29:00] That First Honest Prayer • [32:00] Living the Easier, Softer Way • [36:00] Just Show Up: Final Reflections Key Topics: • The importance of connection in early and ongoing recovery • How hospitality plays a key role in healing environments • The founding of Eagle Creek Ranch and their philosophy of care • What makes a treatment experience truly transformational • Why showing up beats pretending every time Guest Bio: Andrew Maloof is the co-founder and CEO of Eagle Creek Ranch Recovery,(https://www.eaglecreekranchrecovery.com/) a residential treatment center for men based in Idaho. With a background in hospitality management from UNLV and a personal recovery journey spanning more than a decade, Andrew combines professional excellence with lived experience. He’s passionate about creating healing spaces grounded in compassion, accountability, and the 12 Steps. Resources & Links: • Eagle Creek Ranch Recovery Website: https://www.eaglecreekranchrecovery.com(https://www.eaglecreekranchrecovery.com/) • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eaglecreekranchrecovery(https://www.instagram.com/eaglecreekranchrecovery) Follow Us: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery(https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery) • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery(https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery) • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery(https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery) • TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc(https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc) Watch & Listen: • Podcast Website: https://www.findingnewwaters.com(https://www.findingnewwaters.com/) • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw(https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw) • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608) • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw) • YouTube Music: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn(https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn) SEO Hashtags: #AndrewMaloof #EagleCreekRecovery #RecoveryPodcast #12StepRecovery #AddictionRecovery #FindingNewWatersPodcast #SoberLife #HolisticHealing Powerful Quote: “Just show up. Be on time. Be present. You can’t pretend to care, but you can’t pretend to show up.”

In this heartfelt episode of *Finding New Waters*, we sit down with Tripp Tracy, the iconic voice of the Carolina Hurricanes, as he shares his powerful story of recovery and self-discovery. Tripp opens up about his journey through alcoholism, his moment of surrender, and the pivotal role his support system and 12-step program played in his transformation. < Back to Episodes Building Impact: Adams Pritchard on Transforming Recovery in Alabama and Beyond 38:56 min | Adams Pritchard | Finding New Waters In this episode of *Finding New Waters*, we welcome Adams Pritchard, founder and CEO of Impact Recovery Center in Birmingham, Alabama. Adams shares his personal recovery story, which led him to create a unique, highly effective program centered on 12-step immersion and individualized clinical care. He discusses the challenges of modern treatment models, the importance of involving families in the recovery process, and the groundbreaking work being done at Impact Recovery. With a focus on efficiency, spiritual growth, and community engagement, Adams is changing the way addiction treatment is approached, making a lasting impact on both individuals and the broader recovery landscape. Subscribe “We don’t need more treatment centers—we need better treatment. Recovery happens when it’s done right.” – Adams Pritchard Show Notes In this episode of *Finding New Waters*, we welcome Adams Pritchard, founder and CEO of Impact Recovery Center in Birmingham, Alabama. Adams shares his personal recovery story, which led him to create a unique, highly effective program centered on 12-step immersion and individualized clinical care. He discusses the challenges of modern treatment models, the importance of involving families in the recovery process, and the groundbreaking work being done at Impact Recovery. With a focus on efficiency, spiritual growth, and community engagement, Adams is changing the way addiction treatment is approached, making a lasting impact on both individuals and the broader recovery landscape. --- ### Timestamps: - **[00:00] Introduction**: Meet Adams Pritchard, founder and CEO of Impact Recovery. - **[03:00] Personal Journey**: Adams opens up about his own recovery and experiences in treatment. - **[06:00] The Mission of Impact Recovery**: How Adams built a program to provide effective, rapid recovery solutions. - **[09:00] 12-Step Immersion**: The importance of working through all 12 steps within the treatment program. - **[13:00] Family Engagement**: The unique family program designed to help loved ones recover alongside clients. - **[17:00] Individualized Clinical Care**: Combining clinical expertise with spiritual and community-based recovery. - **[22:00] The Role of Insurance**: Why Impact Recovery chose to avoid working with insurance companies. - **[30:00] The Contaminated Drug Supply**: Discussing the dangers of fentanyl and other synthetic drugs in today’s market. - **[34:00] Future Plans**: Expansion and what’s next for Impact Recovery. - **[36:00] Closing Thoughts**: How to connect with Adams and learn more about Impact Recovery. --- ### Key Points Discussed: 1. **12-Step Immersion**: The transformative power of completing the steps during treatment. 2. **Family Recovery**: How helping families navigate Al-Anon and their own healing contributes to client success. 3. **Tailored Care**: The balance between individualized clinical work and spiritual recovery. 4. **Breaking the Mold**: Why Adams chose a non-traditional approach, rejecting the constraints of insurance-driven care. 5. **Drug Supply Risks**: Raising awareness about the contaminated drug market and its dangers. --- ### Guest Bio: **Adams Pritchard** **Founder and CEO, Impact Recovery Center** Adams Pritchard is the founder and CEO of Impact Recovery Center, located just outside Birmingham, Alabama. After years of battling addiction and attending numerous treatment centers, Adams developed a passion for creating a program that would truly work for individuals and their families. His recovery model combines 12-step immersion, individualized clinical care, and a strong emphasis on family engagement. Today, Impact Recovery has grown into a nationally recognized program, helping clients from across the country achieve lasting sobriety and personal transformation. --- ### Resources Mentioned: - **Impact Recovery Center Website:** https://www.impactrecoverycenter.net(https://www.impactrecoverycenter.net/) - **Al-Anon Family Groups:** https://al-anon.org(https://al-anon.org/) - **12-Step Programs (Find a Meeting):** https://www.aa.org(https://www.aa.org/) --- ### Follow Us: - **Instagram:** https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery(https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery) - **Facebook:** https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery(https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery) - **LinkedIn:** https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery(https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery) - **TikTok:** https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc(https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc) --- ### Watch & Listen: - **Podcast Website:** https://www.findingnewwaters.com(https://www.findingnewwaters.com/) - **Spotify:** https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw(https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw) - **Apple Podcast:** https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608) - **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw) - **YouTube Music:** https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn(https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn)

In this powerful episode of *Finding New Waters*, we sit down with Laurie Dhue, a Certified Recovery Specialist and one of the nation’s leading recovery advocates. Laurie opens up about her journey from a successful career as a national news anchor to finding her purpose in long-term recovery from alcoholism and drug addiction. < Back to Episodes Family Whisperer: Dr. Louise Stanger on Transforming Recovery with Compassion and Boundaries 40:32 min | Dr. Louise Stanger| Finding New Waters In this episode of *Finding New Waters*, we are joined by the renowned Dr. Louise Stanger, acclaimed interventionist, author, and family coach. Known as the “Family Whisperer,” Dr. Stanger shares her groundbreaking approaches to addiction recovery and family dynamics, including her innovative “Change Agreement” methodology. With decades of experience working with high-acuity families, Dr. Stanger discusses the critical role of boundaries, compassion, and systemic change in achieving lasting recovery. She also reflects on her personal journey of resilience and how it has shaped her dedication to helping others heal. Subscribe “No is just a conversation starter.” – -Dr. Louise Stanger Show Notes Episode Summary: In this episode of Finding New Waters, we are joined by the renowned Dr. Louise Stanger, acclaimed interventionist, author, and family coach. Known as the “Family Whisperer,” Dr. Stanger shares her groundbreaking approaches to addiction recovery and family dynamics, including her innovative “Change Agreement” methodology. With decades of experience working with high-acuity families, Dr. Stanger discusses the critical role of boundaries, compassion, and systemic change in achieving lasting recovery. She also reflects on her personal journey of resilience and how it has shaped her dedication to helping others heal. Timestamps: • [00:00] Introduction: Welcome and overview of the episode. • [01:00] Meet Dr. Louise Stanger: Her career journey and passion for family interventions. • [04:00] The Power of Boundaries: Why boundaries are essential in recovery and how to establish them with love. • [08:00] Change Agreements: Dr. Stanger introduces her unique approach to aligning families and loved ones during recovery. • [12:00] Trauma-Informed Care: How her personal experiences of loss and resilience have informed her methods. • [18:00] Family Mapping: The process of creating a “portrait” of the family dynamic to guide intervention and treatment. • [24:00] Collaborative Recovery Models: The importance of teamwork among families, professionals, and treatment centers. • [30:00] Writing as Advocacy: Dr. Stanger’s books and their impact on recovery education. • [36:00] Closing Thoughts: Advice for families and how to connect with Dr. Stanger. Key Points Discussed: 1. Boundaries and Compassion: Dr. Stanger explains why setting boundaries is an act of love that creates space for healing. 2. Change Agreements: Aligning families and loved ones around shared goals for recovery. 3. Family Mapping as a Tool: Using visual storytelling to understand and address family dynamics. 4. Personal Resilience: How Dr. Stanger’s experiences with trauma have fueled her mission to help others. 5. Tailored Recovery Solutions: The need for individualized approaches to treatment and support. Guest Bio: Dr. Louise Stanger Acclaimed Interventionist, Family Coach, and Author Dr. Louise Stanger is a licensed clinician, interventionist, and the founder of All About Interventions. Known for her innovative approaches, including the “Change Agreement” and family mapping, Dr. Stanger works with high-acuity families navigating substance use and mental health challenges. She has authored multiple books, including Falling Up: A Memoir of Resilience and The Definitive Guide to Intervention. Her upcoming book, Reflections on Aging from the Sunset Marquee, explores the intersection of wellness and aging. Resources Mentioned: • All About Interventions: https://www.allaboutinterventions.com • Youth Prevention Mentors: https://www.ypmprogram.com • Books by Dr. Louise Stanger: Available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble Follow Us: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery • TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc Watch & Listen: • Podcast Website: https://www.findingnewwaters.com • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw?si=f485f70900204da4 • Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608 • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw • YouTube Music: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn • Google Podcast:https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9kZmI2YTk3NC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw Stay connected with us for more episodes that provide valuable resources for families navigating the complexities of supporting a loved one struggling with substance use or mental health. SEO Hashtags: #FamilyIntervention #AddictionRecovery #LouiseStanger #FindingNewWatersPodcast #BoundariesInRecovery #ChangeAgreement #TraumaInformedCare #FamilyMapping Powerful Quote: “No is just a conversation starter.” – Dr. Louise Stanger

In this eye-opening episode of Finding New Waters*, we sit down with acclaimed journalist and author Sam Quinones, whose investigative work has redefined how we understand addiction and community resilience. Known for his groundbreaking books *Dreamland and *The Least of Us*, Sam shares the intricate stories behind America’s opioid and synthetic drug epidemics. < Back to Episodes Sam Quinones: The Stories Behind America’s Drug Epidemic 1:07:22 min | Sam Quinones | Finding New Waters In this eye-opening episode of Finding New Waters*, we sit down with acclaimed journalist and author Sam Quinones, whose investigative work has redefined how we understand addiction and community resilience. Known for his groundbreaking books *Dreamland and *The Least of Us*, Sam shares the intricate stories behind America’s opioid and synthetic drug epidemics. From the rise of prescription painkillers and black tar heroin to the impact of fentanyl and methamphetamine, Sam highlights the systemic and personal forces driving addiction. This conversation is packed with insights into the power of storytelling, the importance of connection, and the role of hope in combating one of the most significant public health crises of our time. Subscribe “Addiction is a story of disconnection, but recovery is a story of hope, resilience, and rebuilding community.” – Sam Quinones Show Notes In this eye-opening episode of *Finding New Waters*, we sit down with acclaimed journalist and author Sam Quinones, whose investigative work has redefined how we understand addiction and community resilience. Known for his groundbreaking books *Dreamland* and *The Least of Us*, Sam shares the intricate stories behind America’s opioid and synthetic drug epidemics. From the rise of prescription painkillers and black tar heroin to the impact of fentanyl and methamphetamine, Sam highlights the systemic and personal forces driving addiction. This conversation is packed with insights into the power of storytelling, the importance of connection, and the role of hope in combating one of the most significant public health crises of our time. --- ### Timestamps: - **[00:00] Introduction**: Welcoming Sam Quinones and diving into his career as a journalist and author. - **[03:00] Early Career and Investigative Journalism**: How Sam’s work in Mexico shaped his understanding of the drug trade. - **[09:00] The Birth of *Dreamland***: Exploring the evolution of the opioid crisis, from prescription painkillers to black tar heroin. - **[15:00] Synthetic Drugs and *The Least of Us***: The rise of fentanyl and methamphetamine and their devastating societal impact. - **[22:00] Addiction and Isolation**: How the disconnection in modern society fuels substance use disorders. - **[30:00] Community Repair**: Highlighting stories of resilience and local solutions to addiction. - **[38:00] The Perfect Tuba**: A sneak peek into Sam’s upcoming book and its lessons on creativity, discipline, and recovery. - **[45:00] Closing Reflections**: Sam’s message of hope and advice for listeners. --- ### Key Points Discussed: 1. **The Evolution of Addiction**: Understanding the shift from plant-based drugs to synthetic substances like fentanyl and methamphetamine. 2. **Systemic Failures**: How pharmaceutical companies, the healthcare system, and organized crime fueled the opioid epidemic. 3. **The Power of Storytelling**: Sam’s unique approach to capturing the human side of the addiction crisis. 4. **Hope and Connection**: Why community engagement is essential to recovery and rebuilding lives. 5. **Creative Inspiration**: How Sam’s journalistic curiosity continues to drive his work on addiction and societal repair. --- ### Guest Bio: **Sam Quinones** **Award-Winning Journalist, Author, and Chronicler of America’s Drug Crisis** Sam Quinones is an American journalist and the author of four narrative nonfiction books, including the National Book Critics Circle Award-winning *Dreamland: The True Tale of America’s Opiate Epidemic* and its follow-up, *The Least of Us: True Tales of America and Hope in the Time of Fentanyl and Meth*. With decades of investigative reporting, Sam has become a leading voice on the opioid epidemic, uncovering the systemic causes behind addiction and highlighting stories of resilience and recovery. A former reporter for the *Los Angeles Times*, Sam has written for outlets like *National Geographic*, *The Atlantic*, and *The New York Times*. Through his work, he continues to inspire change, emphasizing the role of community and connection in combating addiction. --- ### Resources Mentioned: - **Sam Quinones’ Website:** [https://www.samquinones.com](https://www.samquinones.com) - **Dreamland: The True Tale of America’s Opiate Epidemic (Book):** [https://www.samquinones.com/books/dreamland/](https://www.samquinones.com/books/dreamland/)(https://www.samquinones.com/books/dreamland/](https://www.samquinones.com/books/dreamland/)) - **The Least of Us (Book):** [https://www.samquinones.com/books/the-least-of-us/](https://www.samquinones.com/books/the-least-of-us/)(https://www.samquinones.com/books/the-least-of-us/](https://www.samquinones.com/books/the-least-of-us/)) - **12-Step Programs (Find a Meeting):** [https://www.aa.org](https://www.aa.org) --- ### Follow Us: - **Instagram:** [https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery](https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery)(https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery](https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery)) - **Facebook:** [https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery](https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery)(https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery](https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery)) - **LinkedIn:** [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery](https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery)(https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery](https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery)) - **TikTok:** [https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc](https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc)(https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc](https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc)) --- ### Watch & Listen: - **Podcast Website:** [https://www.findingnewwaters.com](https://www.findingnewwaters.com) - **Spotify:** [https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw](https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw)(https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw](https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw)) - **Apple Podcast:** [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608)(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608)) - **YouTube:** [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw)(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw)) - **YouTube Music:** [https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn](https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn)(https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn](https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn)) #SamQuinones #DreamlandBook #TheLeastOfUs #OpioidCrisis #AddictionRecovery #FentanylCrisis #FindingNewWatersPodcast

Robbie Shaw and Patrick Balsley, podcast hosts and private practice professionals, discuss addiction and mental health complexities, exploring the sober curious movement and the importance of a health and wellness-focused approach to substance abuse < Back to Episodes Robbie Shaw & Patrick Balsley Redefining Sobriety 43:35 min | Robbie & Patrick | Finding New Waters In this engaging episode of Finding New Waters, host B. Reeves sits down with Robbie Shaw and Patrick Balsley, the hosts of the popular podcast Champagne Problems. Together, they dive deep into the world of addiction, wellness, and recovery, discussing how substance use can impact various aspects of life such as sleep, work productivity, and relationships. Play Video Facebook Twitter Pinterest Tumblr Copy Link Link Copied Subscribe "If alcohol never existed and it came out today. It would be a schedule one controlled substance." Patrick Balsley Podcast Transcript #007 Robbie Shaw & Patrick Balsley Patrick Balsley: [00:00:00] Addiction is like the biggest public health crisis ever. Robbie Shaw: Yeah, right. You know, cause connected to our phone. Yeah. All Patrick Balsley: the cardiovascular stuff, all that stuff. It's all addiction. Yeah. All addiction Robbie Shaw: related. B. Reeves: Do y'all, in your work and through the podcast, maybe tangentially work with people or who have more process addiction, phone shopping, gaming? Robbie Shaw: I don't think that's as common to admit these days, and I don't think people think of it as, An acute issue. Right. I mean, it's, it's something that we've yet to see what its long-term effects are. You know, I mean, we're starting to see it in kids. Mm-hmm. Uh, anxiety and depression, you know, I mean, so partially, I mean, I think in the work that we do in knowing that, especially, especially cuz we, Patrick and I both work. Robbie Shaw: More in the holistic space, kind of looking at the entire wellness spectrum and, and screen time is absolutely one of them. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, so we, [00:01:00] you know, we certainly talk about that and nutrition and, you know, exercise and all those things, but especially when you're talking with kids. But, but it's the same, same thing goes with like parenting. Robbie Shaw: I mean, it's like, You know, I was constantly telling my daughter to get off her phone while I'm on my phone. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. B. Reeves: Welcome to Finding New Watchers. Our goal in creating Finding New Watchers is to provide a resource for families to help navigate the complexities of supporting a loved one struggling with substance use or mental health. When we find ourselves in crisis due to one of these issues, most people have no idea where to turn. B. Reeves: We hope to shed [00:02:00] some light onto what is often the darkest hour for many families. Well, I am, uh, very honored and privileged to be sitting here today. For this episode of Finding New Waters with Robbie Shaw and Patrick Bosley, they're the hosts of Champagne Problems, the number one rated podcast by Charlotte Magazine. B. Reeves: Um, I, uh, I've actually known Robbie for, since I was 10 years old, and Patrick, just for the last about three years, um, working in this industry and we're so honored and, and excited to have them here today. And we're not just gonna talk about what they do with their podcast. We do wanna talk about that, but also what they. B. Reeves: Outside and what they do for you, they're their day-to-day and, um, how they ended up where they are in terms of recovery and all that kind of stuff, so. Mm. Um, got three or four hours. Yeah, we do. You just said you had to be back by dinner, right? Robbie Shaw: That's right. 11 o'clock. That's right. All right, well, let's get going. B. Reeves: Well, um, anyway, thank y'all for being here and, uh, I'll just kind of turn it over to you for first, Ravi, [00:03:00] about what, what do you, what do you do other than, um, host champagne problems? Robbie Shaw: Well first, thanks for having me. Uh, we are equally as honored to be here with you B. Um, What do I do outside of champaign problems? Robbie Shaw: Um, I do quite a few things. Uh, I think as it relates to, you know, this conversation, I do have a private practice called even Tide Recovery, where I work as a recovery, sobriety and wellness coach. Um, That started, you know, years ago with some intervention services and now it's just kind of morphed into just doing coaching for people who are either looking to get sober, toying with it, or are sober and are looking to sustain, uh, as well as work with family members and loved ones of. Robbie Shaw: People battling, um, any level of dependence or addiction. Um, and then I also have a, a studio, an audio video production studio that we are positioning under the mental health and wellbeing space, as, you know, content creators and, and, uh, any production in that space. [00:04:00] So that is the, the gist of what I do outside of champagne problems. Robbie Shaw: Awesome. What about you? Patrick Balsley: So, um, I also have a private practice in Charlotte. It's called Sauna Counseling, and, uh, it's a group practice. I have a, a couple coaches, uh, an interventionist, um, couple therapists that work alongside me. Um, we do a lot of the same stuff Robbie does. Essentially, we serve the same population. Patrick Balsley: People that, uh, that are either in recovery or looking to be in recovery. Uh, we do a lot of pre and post what I call pre and post treatment work. Um, a lot of family coaching, a lot of craft style interventions where we kind of move families through the stages of change to get 'em where they need to be. Patrick Balsley: Um, in terms of engaging with resources, it's a lot of what we do. Um, and then families usually stick with us, so they'll go through treatment and then, you know, when they get. We usually work with the families while they're still in treatment and uh, and then when they get out and they're more [00:05:00] stabilized, uh, we can, you know, move forward from there and, uh, with a more of a long-term engagement strategy, build, build that trusting relationship. Patrick Balsley: Um, and then, um, I just opened a high-end recovery residence in South Charlotte called Sauna House. Um, it's a really small. Recovery residents, transitional living, um, program for men, uh, in early recovery. And, uh, we only have five beds and, um, it's something I've wanted to do for a really long time, so it's gonna be fun. Patrick Balsley: And then pretty heavily involved with Emerald School of Excellence, the Recovery High School in Charlotte. Big passion of mine. Um, and, uh, yeah, that's pretty much it. That's B. Reeves: awesome. I, um, you said something that I wanted to touch on, which, People who are kind of experimenting with recovery, the sober curious movement, if that's even, uh, you know, can be classified as a movement. B. Reeves: But it's something I've [00:06:00] noticed. And then when I first heard your podcast, I guess almost three years ago now, or at least two. Two, okay. Two. Yep. Um, that seemed to be kind of a, an ongoing theme, and I know it's evolved and changes and, but I, uh, I see it in my personal life and it sounds like you do too. B. Reeves: And I, you know, I wanna hear your thoughts on it too. Kind of what, what that really looks like. And, and does that ever, in your experience, turn into permanent sobriety? Robbie Shaw: Great question. So the word sober is what throws that off, right? It, it really, it's just people looking to eliminate things that are hurting them. Robbie Shaw: Right? So it's really falls under the more wellness, wellbeing space. Now, of course there's a wide range of people that might fall into this population that are exploring this stuff. So there could be people that are battling some level of addiction or dependence that sobriety might look more appealing for them. Robbie Shaw: But then I think the curious movement. You know that as, as it spreads [00:07:00] throughout the, a lot of our younger generations and a lot of our population in general is more around the wellness stuff. Just look the, the science around these substances, specifically alcohol, um, cuz that's the most widely used, you know, people are learning more and more about this stuff and they're starting to recognize that. Robbie Shaw: Their wellness strategies. Wellness goals are not being met or being altered or being influenced by something that is sold on every corner and in every household or most. And so they're just starting to say, you know, maybe this is something that's not serving me. And, and I think that is new. I think people have done that to a degree, but not in the space of alcohol. Robbie Shaw: Right. And that's the trend and that is the snowball that's ging out there. Our podcast is super excited about. I mean, we, we position ourself in the wellness space. You know, we're not, it's not about it. Are you an alcoholic? Are you an addict? Are you addicted? It's how is it affecting your sleep? Mm-hmm. Robbie Shaw: Your work productivity, your relationships, your parenting, you know, whatever else. And that way it opens it up to everybody and not just people that are potentially battling and [00:08:00] addictive behavior. Right. Substance. And I B. Reeves: think, I mean that, that news that came out pretty recently. All sorts of reports that moderate drinking is not in fact good for people. B. Reeves: No. Which have been the, uh, standard for thousands of years, I guess, Robbie Shaw: right? No, it's not. It's unfortunately it's not. I mean, you know, neither is, you know, a bag of Doritos four days a week, so, yeah. You know, we, there's relativity associated with this and we understand that we're not prohibitionist, but alcohol is, is bad for you. Robbie Shaw: No. Patrick Balsley: Bottom line. I mean, if we, if it came, if, if alcohol never existed and it came out. It would be a schedule one controlled substance. Oh yeah. It'd be illegal. Be completely illegal. Right. And it does more damage to your, you know, to your body and mind than pretty much any other drug other than probably meth. Patrick Balsley: Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's really bad for you. Robbie Shaw: That's not good for you. B. Reeves: Well, y'all both work with or, or between the [00:09:00] podcast and what you both do. Younger people. Not, not exclusively, but, you know, one of the things that I'm always, you know, I, I, I found recovery and got sober, you know, kind of from that average age I was 41. B. Reeves: And, um, but a lot of my friends got sober really young. And I, and I, we, I work, I used to work specifically with younger guys and, and, and women, you know, um, young adults. And just keeping them engaged. And my whole thing was always tr you know, let show people how to enjoy life. Mm-hmm. In recovery, not just tell 'em that it's possible. B. Reeves: And just wondering kind of what your experience has been like and what you would say to try to help keep younger people engaged who are who, who need to be in recovery and who are, or experimenting with it. Because, you know, they see their friends, you know, mostly not, and they, yeah. Have. Patrick Balsley: Acceptable. Yeah, I mean, I love the lens that we look at things from, you know, it's less clinical. Patrick Balsley: It's, it's more, more on the health and wellness side. I think. Um, we've done a really poor job historically of being able to articulate [00:10:00] what we're dealing with, um, and we've kind of pigeonholed into this pathological way of looking at this issue. Or pot or even a potential issue. Um, and it's stigmatizing, you know, so a lot of the young people, especially the ones that you know, may not be, you know, what we would consider. Patrick Balsley: You know, hit rock bottom or whatever, but have like some, you know, moderate consequences in their life due to their substance use. It's very difficult for them to align themselves with what we would typically call somebody with a severe substance use disorder, um, or like rob, like alcohol or alcoholic or addict. Patrick Balsley: Um, they just don't identify with that. So I think if we can aim, aim more towards articulating. Kind of dynamic in, in, in a more of a health and wellness way. They, they can roll with that. You know, it's [00:11:00] like, hey, let's, let's just take a look at how this stuff's affecting your life. Um, and not look at it more of like a, you know, from a shame, shame or guilt perspective. Patrick Balsley: Like, like what's your doing to your family? You know, it. Oh, let's, let's really do like a, like an assessment of how this is impacting you and how does it match up to your values. Like, how does this, How, how is this stopping you from getting where you want to go? And if you don't know where you want to go, let's figure that out first, you know? Patrick Balsley: Yeah. Um, Robbie Shaw: yeah. And then, and then, you know, more externally there's, there's, you know, two really big uphill battles that I think stand out and, and one is the effect of alcohol. It's, it's super effective. And, and people tend to kind of forget that or, or, or don't keep it front of mind where it's like, you know, why this, why that? Robbie Shaw: It's like, well, have you ever had a sip of alcohol? It, it works, right? It makes you feel pretty damn good. Uh, so there's [00:12:00] that. And we are creatures of, of, you know, living off reward systems and, and we like things that make us feel good and. So there's that. Secondly, it's a, it's a cultural norm. And and how do you fight that? Robbie Shaw: Yeah. I mean that's, that's the hard part is the normalization. That is like you, like you asked these kids that are just looking around and it's like, well, that's what you do to have fun. You know? That's what you do to be cool. That's what you do to act like you're famous. That's what you do to get girls, you know, that's what you do for all this stuff. Robbie Shaw: And, uh, how do you change that, you know? And, and we see it because we quit and now we can see. It's not necessary. It's not required to have fun and do all these things, but that's what you grow up seeing and thinking and, and becoming ingrained and unfor. I don't have the answer. I don't have the answer other than to just Patrick Balsley: show it. Patrick Balsley: I mean, one, one of the things that I try to do is, like I was saying, I try to get. Whoever I'm working with, cuz I work with a lot of people that are sober, precarious, that don't meet criteria for substance use disorders. Mm-hmm. But are, you know, having troubles with their relationship or [00:13:00] parenting or their, you know, got a dui and it's like, okay, now I'm starting to see a pattern here, need to get a little bit of help. Patrick Balsley: But like I, if, if you can paint a really clear picture of what you want your life to look like, like what is the ideal, you know, what do you really want, like, Really optimistically Paint that picture. Yeah. Robbie Shaw: Do you wanna get drunk every night Patrick Balsley: or, yeah. And, and then, and then, and then you just, probably not you, you, you map the alcohol use on top of that and be like, is this. Patrick Balsley: Getting in the way of you reaching those goals or being that person that you want to be or being that you know dad that you want to be. And if the answer is, yeah, it is getting in the way, then that's a, it's a, it's a pretty rational way to, to look at it. And if they can see that, and that always usually develop some type of internal motivat. Patrick Balsley: No. Robbie Shaw: Oh, and sorry, but the, but the, the answers are in the results of that too, in the sense of like, when I think back to if someone were to do that kind of work with me when I was [00:14:00] 11th grade, 12th grade, what do you want? I want to be popular. I want to have the hottest girlfriend, and I want to be, you know, members of this group, and I want to go to this bar and I want to do all these things. Robbie Shaw: Like, that's what I want. What do you say to that? Patrick Balsley: I say, alright, well let's look five years further. Robbie Shaw: Yeah, yeah. Well, I, I wouldn't have an answer. So the, so then of course the work would be, Patrick Balsley: develop the answer. That's what we develop, you know? And then, and then we go even more macro and we say, okay, well this little vision that you have right now of what you want right now, how is it getting, how is that mapping on. Patrick Balsley: To the five year plan, right? Is you hanging out at bars with a hot girlfriend, you know, drinking every night? Is that gonna be sustainable to get you to what you want five years from now? Yeah. Yep. And Robbie Shaw: I love B. Reeves: that about just so simply just getting in the way. I mean that, yeah. When I look at my own situation, it was, you know, I, I had what would be called like a. B. Reeves: You know, a somewhat high, medium bottom, but it was more about just, it was just in the way of everything. Yeah. That was never gonna grow up. I was never gonna be [00:15:00] anything close to being successful on any level. The only way to measure any success in my life was just the number of years I've been alive. B. Reeves: And that was basically it. You know? It was just in the way. It was just in the way. Um, yeah. But these, the young guys, I, that's great. I mean, that. Love. Yeah. We Patrick Balsley: love that we sacrifice our dreams. Yeah. For, yeah. You know, for instant B. Reeves: gratification. Yep. Yeah. For sh. Yeah. And I mean, you know, I just think about you like I was had no, when people, I remember people would ask me, what do you wanna do in five years? B. Reeves: I would just laugh, you know? Robbie Shaw: Yeah, B. Reeves: this, yeah. I don't want to know. I li I let, Robbie Shaw: right. I don't wanna think about that. Yeah. Patrick Balsley: Yeah. One of the things too that I always tell people, it's like, stay present, man. Yeah. A lot of people don't know that really one of the main organic. Sources of positive emotion is moving towards something that we value and it's actually the process of moving towards like a target, right. Patrick Balsley: That is meaningful to [00:16:00] us. And it is like the, the, you know, the joys and the journey. Like that's actually true. Mm-hmm. And that's really the only thing that provides us with real, like healthy, positive emotion. Yeah. Is, is moving towards that. Um, and if we. No. What we're moving towards or we don't even have a target. Patrick Balsley: You're just like, it's meaningless. Yeah. But not, not only that, like you will end up being a victim of our society and like all the information that we're just getting bombarded with constantly of you, you know, you're not good enough. You know, here's something to make you feel better. Mm-hmm. You know, drink this, wear this, buy this, drive this. Patrick Balsley: You gotta have this. Yeah. And I mean that, you know, that's how. How everything is is so our economy's driven. Yeah. When I was, go ahead. Yeah, no, I mean, if you don't have that target to, to, to kind of [00:17:00] overcome every, all the pressures around you, your B. Reeves: toast. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean the, the trigger part of all this, I remember I, when I was in treatment, we had this lesson on what are, what are triggers? B. Reeves: And it was like, Hmm. Bars. Okay. Obviously, Parties. Okay. Obviously restaurants. All right, weddings, all right. And then it was like ATMs, exit ramps. I was like, okay. So literally everything, just gas, gas station bathrooms. Yeah. I mean, it kind of helped in a way that I just, on the spot was like, all right, so everything's gonna be a trigger. B. Reeves: So maybe nothing can be a trigger, but, you know, it's, it's not that simple. But, you know, when I'm spiritually fit, nothing is a trigger. But if, but if I'm not, then it is. But I was thinking about something I noticed when y'all first started. When you first started, uh, champagne problem. A lot of talk about just, you know, being everywhere, coming from all angles like we're talking about now. B. Reeves: But yesterday I was creating, uh, an, an invite for, um, I won't say the name of the, you know, the, an online, um, invitation generator, [00:18:00] um, for an alumni event we're having in May. And just the options to choose. They have hundreds of 'em. Oh, I'll Patrick Balsley: sit on that damn thing for like six, 106 hours. B. Reeves: 80 of 200 options have alcohol already. B. Reeves: Oh. You know, it's a template on the card, you know, bubbles, sip and see and bump and just literally everything. And it really made me think about kind of the, the early days least of champagne problems where just, it's just everywhere and it it, and it is, and I know, you know, just kind of. Learning to navigate that and understanding that. B. Reeves: And then kind of to your point a second ago, that all these things, whether it's the woman, whether it's beer, whether it's drugs, whether it's um, you know, promotion, just understand that, that this is all an inside job and none and all these external factors are all kind of, they're just external. You know, we're, we gotta learn how to be happy from Patrick Balsley: the inside out. Patrick Balsley: It's a dream killer man. I mean, it really is like, the way that you just described that, it made, it made me think about like how many people, and we don't just, we don't just do it with alcohol, we do it with any, anything. Sure. That's gonna make us feel better and [00:19:00] help us check out. But like we go to work or we have, you know, we have these daily stressors or these things that we think about that we want, or these things that we think about that we're not satisfied with in our life that we want to change. Patrick Balsley: Yep. And then we go home and we drink a couple glasses of. Or eat a big ass steak and we forget about it for the day. Mm-hmm. And then we wake up the next morning and we do the same damn thing and we do it every single day. And at the end of the day, instead of, you know, kind of letting this build and be like, I need to do something about this. Patrick Balsley: I need to change this in my life. We just drown it out. We just suppress it day after day after day after day until we, you know, steps. Heart attack or, yeah, it's, we're 75 and we're angry and divorced and B. Reeves: Right. It comes up, you know, Patrick Balsley: out, boy. B. Reeves: Yeah. And I mean, I do a lot of, um, you know, my job here, I do [00:20:00] most of the pre-admissions and you know, one of the questions we ask every single person is, do you drink or, or use to relieve mental health symptoms and whether it's anxiety or depression, or whatever it is. B. Reeves: And the answer is always yes. And then the answer is almost always, it's always something, um, along these lines to drown out. To not think about my problems, because that's how it is. Relieve stress. Yeah. And just, but like, we're just stuffing it down for the day. Yeah. Good. Every day it just avoiding it. B. Reeves: Yeah. It's, it's not, it's not going away. No. It's not going. I tried that. You know what? It doesn't work. Robbie Shaw: It doesn't, it doesn't work. It's amazing. It comes up and comes out in some way, shape or form. Yeah. And for a long time you can, you know, a lot of us can manage it. Yeah. You know, we can, uh, We can deal or we can set our standards right where they need to be. Robbie Shaw: Right. And may and, oh, I function, I function perfectly well because I do this, this, and this. Patrick Balsley: But I, I think what we're starting to figure out, Like, at least scientifically is that that all, all the, [00:21:00] that emotional discord and disconnect that, that we're drowning out is staying stuck in our body and it's manifesting itself and all kinds of totally physical health problems. Patrick Balsley: I mean, sure. Robbie Shaw: Well then you, I mean, try being a parent, right? Mm-hmm. And a, and a, a loving, supportive, healthy husband. I mean, that, that stuff doesn't come, you can't do all that when you've got turmoil going on inside of you. Yeah. You know, and then your kids all messed up and, oh, I can't figure out why. Patrick Balsley: It's tough, man. Patrick Balsley: And you deal with it for 30 minutes and then, you know, then drown yourself in booze for the rest of the night. You know? Yeah, that's B. Reeves: right. So what do you, what do you say, you know, to, especially to parents, you know what I mean? A big thing we talk about here a lot, especially on the podcast, we talk about it all day at work too, is, I mean, what I, you know, the biggest challenge we see with families is creating of and sticking to boundaries. B. Reeves: Mm-hmm. Which seems, you know, super obvious and I mean, because it's true and it is. But, uh, what else would y'all say, just in terms of, you know, with to [00:22:00] speaking to families, About their loved one and how they can best handle, and I don't just mean getting them into treatment, but just, you know, lovingly working to help them get better, you know? Robbie Shaw: Yeah. Patrick and I talked a little bit about this on the way up because it's, as you know, there is no simple answer to that. Right. And as much as we would love to just have a, here's what you do, every situation's different. Yep. Every parent is different, every family system is different every. Dependence or addiction to a substance or a behavior is different. Robbie Shaw: So it's, it's really hard to pinpoint a very, a generalized direction for that. Um, that being said, now what, what can you do, you know, initially, um, and we, we, you know, we had this talk with the, uh, church group recently, and, and a lot of kids were asking this, and a lot of parents were asking that, and it's, you know, the first answer was like, reach out for. Robbie Shaw: Yeah. Bottom line, like number one. Yeah, that's the most, do not try to [00:23:00] figure it out yourself. Do not just try things and do things based on how you think and feel in a moment. Like, seek out a professional and get some guidance. A good professional, Patrick Balsley: a good one. All right, and that, that, that's also. One of the issues too is that people go on Google, oh my God. Patrick Balsley: And they, you know, or they get caught up with some snake oil salesman, or, or, or even just somebody that doesn't, I mean, that's really trying to be good and has good intentions, but they really don't know what they're talking about and they get bad advice. Yeah. Um, or it's like, You know, oh, well my, my son struggled with this and this is what we did, and this is the treatment that we got him, so it's gotta be the right one for you. Patrick Balsley: Mm-hmm. You know, and they're, they're not doing it intentionally, but I mean, you really need to have a good, you know, mental health professional that can do a really good assessment, um, and really gather all the information before any recommendations are made. I mean, that's, that is key. Well, Robbie Shaw: and. [00:24:00] You know, to get into the kind of details of that answer of the question is really around, like you said, all, all of the details. Robbie Shaw: And so what they're gonna try to figure out and what the parents need to know is that they need to educate themselves. Yeah. Uh, on the situation, the substance, the behavior, all of that. But also they've gotta do some work. Yeah. Because this is a system and you're the parent. Mm-hmm. And this is, You know, you need to go do this. Robbie Shaw: You need to go do that because you're doing this and that. It's what, what can I do? Mm-hmm. What am I doing? What's going on with me that's causing potentially some of this stuff? And what, what changes can I make? I mean, I use the example just in the sense of a marriage. Um, you know, how do you make a marriage work? Robbie Shaw: Well, it's it's not about. Letting the other person, uh, know what they need to do to change. It's doing what you need to do to be good with yourself in order to be there for the other one. And it just, yeah, I mean, it's like, it's B. Reeves: the same thing with parents, the [00:25:00] same thing as we're talking about with the external factors. B. Reeves: Yeah. With the, you know, the drugs and alcohol and food and whatever, and women and whatever it is. You know, even if that person's not the one who needs. Um, recovery or, or treatment. You know, we gotta, everybody's gotta do his or own her own Robbie Shaw: work, you know? Right. Yeah. I mean, how can you give, how can your child, um, trust you, believe you, you know, feel the love, feel the support. Robbie Shaw: Take the advice, take the guidance If you're not coming from an authentic place mm-hmm. Because you're out of touch with your own. Yeah. Right. They, they sense that when it comes Patrick Balsley: to boundaries too, I mean, that's really tricky and it's really individualized. So there's not, like, there's a big difference between understanding boundaries and understanding your boundaries. Patrick Balsley: Mm-hmm. Because if they're not your boundaries, you're not, you're, you're, you're not gonna be able to, they're not gonna be sustainable over time. Mm-hmm. Like I can tell a parent, [00:26:00] Hey, you gotta do this. And they may do it once. But it's like, hold on a second. I'm not ready to do that yet. Mm-hmm. You know, I can't set that boundary every day. Patrick Balsley: Right. And B. Reeves: then if they do it at once and then cave, Patrick Balsley: then, then, then, yeah. So I mean, that's why it's real. That's why it's different. It's different for every family. It's different for every parent. It's different for every situation. And I think that's kind of the message that that gets convoluted sometimes in terms of our field. Patrick Balsley: Um, where we have a very, you know, that idea of codependency and you're an enabler and you know, you just gotta do this and your kid will get better. It's like they can't do that. Mm-hmm. It's the same thing. It's like, it's the same dynamic of like telling a, telling a person that's addicted to drugs, like just to stop using. Patrick Balsley: It's the same, it's the same thing. Yeah. You know, just kick 'em out of the house. Yeah. Just kick 'em out of the house. Yeah. Yeah. That's easy. Yeah. Okay. The kid. That I love to death, but I, I think we don't talk about that as much as we should. [00:27:00] And, and it's very difficult for family members to figure out their own boundaries without the help of like a really good therapist or really good health professional. Patrick Balsley: And in order to figure out. Your own boundary. I mean, that takes some time and that's why I tell, I'm like, everybody should go to therapy. Yeah. Every single person in that family system ought to have a therapist that they're seeing and not to get advice, not for the therapist to tell 'em what to do. It's for them to build a healthy relationship with that therapist so they can figure out what their boundaries actually are. Patrick Balsley: That's, you know, it's B. Reeves: key. Yeah. So we have this new podcast here and it's inf. I know we've talked about this a little bit before, but will you just talk about the genesis of champagne problems? You know where it is now compared to where it came Patrick Balsley: from. Sure. It was my idea. Sure. Robbie Shaw: I gotta tell a funny story. Robbie Shaw: We went to [00:28:00] Florida and Patrick introduced me to somebody he knew and he goes, this is Robbie, he's on my podcast. I don't think he knew he did it and he didn't mean to, but I was like, oh, okay. I've meant to do that. It was hilarious. I don't remember that at all. Um, so yeah. So the, uh, It started with me wanting to write a book. Robbie Shaw: So alcohol has been a part. I say this all the time, alcohol's been a part of my life since the day I was born. And my mom hates hearing this story and she won't watch this, so it doesn't matter. But my dad was wasted on the night that I was born, and so he didn't make it to the, to my birth. I think he was at a Carolina State game. Robbie Shaw: Uh, and that's always been a funny story and all that, but honestly, it's a. Hurtful. Um, but you know, so from day one, alcohol has influenced me in some way. Then of course, I grew up in a very alcoholic household. I became addicted to alcohol. Now I'm in recovery, and then I studied it. Now I work in the field. Robbie Shaw: You know, it's just been a part of my life [00:29:00] from day one to today and. That doesn't make me unique. Um, but it does give me some passion around wanting people to know what I know. And I think a lot of that comes from working in this field and seeing so many people and families and, and things just destroyed by it. Robbie Shaw: And not that that's what happens to everybody that drinks, but it does happen to a lot of people and it just really, uh, pulls up my heartstrings. And so I thought if I could write a. Kind of sharing everything I've learned throughout all of my years and all that kind of, are we allowed to cuss all your wisdom? Robbie Shaw: Wisdom? We are. I think so. Do y'all cuss on this thing? Sure. Patrick Balsley: Probably not. We can edit it out. We can bleep it. Robbie Shaw: All right. I'll say bs. All that kind of, so all that, all that. Whatever. Um, And so I wanted to write this book. And so I, uh, started trying, uh, I'm not very good at sitting down and writing a book, it turns [00:30:00] out. Robbie Shaw: So somebody was like, eh, nobody's gonna buy it anyway because nobody knows you and this thank you, but, uh, okay. And they were like, you need to find a following, you know, write a blog, do a podcast. And I was like, Boom. I wanna do a podcast. Asked another friend of mine if he wanted to sit in my living room, a guy in recovery with me, and we were just like, man, let's just shoot the breeze. Robbie Shaw: You know, just talk about this stuff and just start talking about alcohol and just kind of what we've learned and you know, lots of insight and experience and wisdom and all this stuff. And he said no. Uh, and, and so I just didn't know what I was gonna do other than I wanted to do this. And Patrick and I had been introduced, you know, via like Instagram through one of our friends. Robbie Shaw: I think we even followed each other because we had both been told a number of times that we needed to meet each other, but we're both. Pretty stubborn and never really reached out to do it despite being told we needed to. And we just kind of like fi kind of watched each other from a distance. And then one day, I don't know what happened, one of us reached out and was like, man, let's grab some lunch. Robbie Shaw: We're, you know, it seems like we're supposed to do this. [00:31:00] And we did and we hit it off and we, um, You know, we've been in love ever since. Mm-hmm. And, uh, it's been very, Patrick Balsley: I wanna, I, I wanna know who that first guy was. I never Robbie Shaw: heard that story. I don't know. There was somebody, I never told Patrick Balsley: somebody before me that Robbie Shaw: denied you. Robbie Shaw: Well, so we sat down at lunch and, uh, and I started talking about the way that I think about alcohol and the way that I feel like the, our society and culture thinks about it, and how there's just this terrible disconnect that's deserving so many. And Patrick's like, yep, yep, yep. He's like, all right, so I've got a podcast I want to do. Robbie Shaw: Would you be a guest on it? He's like, of course. Of course. And so that's how we started and, and we finish up lunch and we drive off and within 30 seconds I text him. I was like, How about co-host? And he is like, yep. And it just kinda went from there. Um, and so we just started talking about it and thinking about it, and we ended up, you know, getting production crew and, and it really just expanded. Robbie Shaw: But, you know, the, the, the value in, in telling all this is [00:32:00] really about the mission and how. Created the mission was a, was around everything we talked about at, at the beginning of this conversation in that we didn't want to talk about alcohol with shaming, with labels, with, in the, in the realm of addiction. Robbie Shaw: And, and do you have a problem? Because we knew that we weren't gonna reach a lot of people doing it that way. Nobody wants to be, have their finger pointed out. And that's, and whether we're doing that or not, that's what it feels like. Mm-hmm. When all you do is talk bad about alcohol. So we were like, Let's find a different way to talk about it. Robbie Shaw: What if we talk about it kind of through a wellness lens and then it's just like, Hey, yeah, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but here's the science and does this apply to you? And maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. And that's how we started it off. And it worked. It worked. People listen. Love it. It's crazy. I wanna hear your version of this. Patrick Balsley: Yeah, well, I cleaned up with everything. I, no, Robbie pays me reverse the roll small fee so he can pretend [00:33:00] it's his. Um, no, yeah, I mean, that was all right on. Um, yeah, I mean, this has been super cool. It was like, one of the things when I, when Robbie texted me and was like, Hey, will you be a co-host? I was like, you know, yeah. Patrick Balsley: And I, I. Expect it to, you know, move as fast as it did. It was like, you know, two weeks later we're in a damn studio with a production crew and there's cameras in our faces, our roll. Yeah. And I was like, whoa, dude. Um, so yeah, it, it's, it's been really neat to kinda. And, and thank God for Robbie and the rest of the team, cuz I don't do anything except really show up and, and, and talk. Patrick Balsley: I mean, they do all the back end stuff and take care of all the marketing and production and all that. So it's been very, very, I've had a really easy, easy ride. Yeah. Um, but it's just been awesome to be a part of it and. You know, I feel like, I feel like we've, we've touched a lot of people that, that wouldn't, [00:34:00] um, wouldn't have received that message otherwise. Patrick Balsley: Um, I'm, I'm very aligned with our mission and in this like, more inclusive way to look at this. Um, cuz I've always been kind of obsessed ever since I got into recovery. Um, I was just kind of really taken back by all the. Barriers that are in place for people to engage in getting help and all this kind of like, things that are non-starters for a lot of people. Patrick Balsley: Mm-hmm. Um, not to mention the fact that we should be addressing stuff way earlier than we are. Mm-hmm. And we don't do a good job of getting people engaged, um, and services and prevention and, you know, early intervention. It's like, you know, one of the one. Analogies I always hear people use, it's like we, we treat addiction and alcoholism. Patrick Balsley: Like, like if you're like a cancer patient instead of [00:35:00] like pre-screening or mm-hmm. Or treatment when you have stage one, it's like, oh, we got no hold on. We just gotta wait for stage four cancer. Mm-hmm. To come in before we come back and see, before we do any treatment. And it's, it's always just been insane to me the fact that there ha, we haven't come up with a way. Patrick Balsley: To get people engaged in early, you know, and do early interventions that actually work instead of like trying to pigeonhole somebody that's like a moderate, you know, may meet criteria for mild or moderate use disorder. And it's like, oh yeah, but yeah, you really got, you gotta say you're severe, you gotta call yourself an addict and mm-hmm You gotta sit in all these groups that you don't really need and you know, And you gotta go to these meetings that you, you despise and hate. Patrick Balsley: Well, how do we come up with something that meets those people where they're at mm-hmm. That they can engage in? Um, cause we just, we don't have a lot of stuff like that. And I feel like there's a new wave of, of services and, and [00:36:00] information and ways, you know, to help people that are kind of in that space. Patrick Balsley: And I think, you know, that's kind of been one of the things. We've been able to do. B. Reeves: It's a great analogy though about the, you know, Yeah, it's nuts. No screenings and all of a sudden you just just wait until it's, yeah. You Patrick Balsley: know? So acute. Well, you got the thing in the doctor's office now where it's like they hand you that damn card with the blunt crayon that's like, oh, you've thought about, you know, hurting yourself today. Patrick Balsley: And then, you know, you fill it out and then the doctor just like slings it on the table. You know, Robbie Shaw: it's, hold on. Great. I Patrick Balsley: haven't had the pleasure. Yeah, you haven't had that yet with like the, with like the stringy thing on it, you know, the, you haven't, you haven't seen that in the doctor's office? Maybe I go to a, I'm due for a physical though. Patrick Balsley: Crappy Doctor Hope. Get it this time. B. Reeves: Um, that's, yeah, that, that's so true. I, um, yeah, we just, it, and it reminds me of also like kind of the older way of doing detox too. Um, waiting until the person is miserable, then treating [00:37:00] the detox symptoms. Sure. You know, instead of like we do here, getting ahead of it right when they get here and making them comfortable right away. B. Reeves: Not to promote what we do here, but it did make me think of that. Yeah. Robbie Shaw: Um, well, and just that, I mean, that opens up a whole can of a conversation of, of. Prevention versus treat. Yes. Right. I mean, that's, that's our society announce the prevention. Patrick Balsley: Yeah. I mean, yeah. We're trying to put you out business. B. Reeves: Well believe we, you know, I say this at least, you know, five times a week. B. Reeves: I hope you never darken our doors here. Yeah. Talk to about this all the time. And I mean it, you know. Yeah. But yeah, I Robbie Shaw: mean, uh, but that's just the way we are, man. That's, we have an obese culture. Yep. But we don't change our food system. No. Right. Patrick Balsley: Yeah, and we don't. And we don't treat Robbie Shaw: that addiction, treat sickness, not Patrick Balsley: prevent it. Patrick Balsley: You know, we don't talk about that. I mean, addiction is like the biggest public health crisis ever. Yeah, right. You know, Robbie Shaw: we're addicted to our Patrick Balsley: phones, all the cardiovascular stuff, all that stuff. It's all addiction. Yeah. All addiction Robbie Shaw: related. B. Reeves: Do y'all, in your work and through the podcast, maybe [00:38:00] tangentially work with people or who have more process addiction, phone shopping, gaming. Robbie Shaw: I don't think that's as common to admit these days, and I don't think people think of it as an acute issue. Right? I mean, it's, it's something that we've yet. To see what its long-term effects are. We will, you know, I mean we're starting to see it in kids. Mm-hmm. Uh, anxiety and depression, you know, I mean, so partially, I mean, I think in the work that we do in knowing that, especially, especially cuz we, Patrick and I both work. Robbie Shaw: More in the holistic space, kind of looking at the entire wellness spectrum and, and screen time is absolutely one of them. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, so we, you know, we certainly talk about that in nutrition and, you know, exercise and all those things, but especially when you're talking with kids. But, but it's the same, same thing goes with like parenting. Robbie Shaw: I mean, it's like, you know, it's constantly telling my daughter to get off her phone while I'm on my phone. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. [00:39:00] B. Reeves: Well, uh, give me, if you would, both of you, just an example or two of people who you have reached who there've been just a positive outcome from someone, whether you knew 'em before or not from Robbie Shaw: Champion, from the podcast. Robbie Shaw: Yeah, man. Um, I mean, we've had a ton. Yeah, tons. Like we get, yeah. I mean, I get emails and messages. I mean, not daily. It's not you. Packed, but we get really meaningful notes, you know, verbally and through, you know, digital messages of, oh man, I came across this and I was looking to to dial it back. Or I was looking to learn a little bit more about, you know, the correlation between anxiety and alcohol and your podcast did this for me. Robbie Shaw: And, and we get that a lot. That's awesome. It's really cool. I Patrick Balsley: mean, I, it's very gratifying. I've run. Multiple people that I had relationships with in high school or college where I hadn't seen him in 15 or 20 years. Mm-hmm. Like I went to a, I went to a [00:40:00] alumni like football game at my high school and a guy that I hadn't seen in 20 years. Patrick Balsley: It was actually a guy in my classes, little brother mm-hmm. Who was like four years younger than me. Walks up to me and he shakes my hand and he's like, Hey man, I just wanna let you know I haven't had a drink in a year and a half. That's awesome. And he goes, I didn't go to treatment. Like, I'm not, I never considered myself an alcoholic. Patrick Balsley: Um, and, and I, I don't, I still don't. But, but you know, I started listening to your podcast and really started to question how alcohol was affecting my, my life. And I decided to, to put it down. And he was like, you know, it was all cuz of listening to your show. And, and that's, I've had multiple, and I know Robbie has too, people that have told me that, oh, it's, uh, it's pretty really B. Reeves: cool. B. Reeves: Cool. Yeah. What do you say to somebody like that? Um, other than, I'm so glad to hear that, but I mean, in, in terms of sustained recovery, if somebody's not, you know, does it need the full Monty, you know, of like, what I need, you know? Mm-hmm. [00:41:00] Which is a lot of work for me to. Sober and relatively serene with somebody who's Patrick Balsley: not, they figure it out. Patrick Balsley: Cuz usually, you know people in that, I'm not saying that demographic, but people that don't meet criteria for severe issues or they're, they're doing it because they can see the correlation of their alcohol use and having a negative impact on their life once they actually stop drinking. Mm-hmm. And they feel the full effects. Patrick Balsley: And they can like tell, I, I had lunch with a guy the other day that told me that he quit for a year. Um, just a part of a like challenge. Mm-hmm. And then he had like two beers one night as he reintroduced it and woke up the next day and was like, never felt like total crap. Mm-hmm. And he never realized like how much of a negative impact it was having on him cuz he was doing it every day and he was so used to it. Patrick Balsley: Mm-hmm. It's like, it's like cutting Robbie Shaw: out sugar and then sugar. Yeah. Yeah. Patrick Balsley: It's like, [00:42:00] yeah. You feel like crap. Yeah. So it, it's. Once you have, if you have somebody that already has their kind of life together and they're, and they have some sort of like mo external motivation to engage with life. Mm-hmm. Um, once they cut alcohol out and realize like how much more engaged they can be and how much more productive they are, how much more present they are with their families, they start to realize like, oh my God, I've been stuff suppressing all. Patrick Balsley: You know mm-hmm. Emotions and unhealthily managing stress. And now I have all these new outlets to manage this stress, and they kind of get really curious about it. Mm-hmm. And they become, you know, more engaged in more holistic stuff. Mm-hmm. It's like all the, now I'm gonna start a meditation practice. Patrick Balsley: Mm-hmm. Now I'm gonna do some ice baths and you know, now I'm gonna go, you know, I'm gonna go exercise more next month. I'm gonna, you know, start training for a marathon. And then they start, all this stuff starts to snowball and they see the positive impacts of all this stuff. And it all started with them changing their relationship to alcohol. Patrick Balsley: Mm-hmm. And they feel [00:43:00] better, they start to realize that their relationship with their family's better, their marriage is getting better. Mm-hmm. Um, they're more productive at work, and then it just, it starts to build. Yeah. Robbie Shaw: Love. All good. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for having us. B. Reeves: Yeah. Show Notes Title: Robbie Shaw & Patrick Balsley Introduction: In this episode of Finding New Waters, B. Reeves sits down with Robbie Shaw and Patrick Balsley, the hosts of Champagne Problems, the number one rated podcast by Charlotte Magazine. They discuss the complexities of addiction and mental health, as well as their experiences working in the recovery and wellness space. Summary: Robbie and Patrick work in private practices where they serve people who are either in recovery or looking to be in recovery. They also host Champagne Problems, a podcast that positions itself in the wellness space, discussing how addiction and substance abuse affect wellness goals such as sleep, productivity, relationships, and parenting. They talk about the sober curious movement and how it's becoming more prevalent among younger generations, with more people recognizing that alcohol can negatively impact their overall wellbeing. They also touch on the importance of articulating the dynamics of addiction and substance abuse in a more health and wellness-focused way, rather than using stigmatizing and shame-based language. Their approach involves looking at how substance use is impacting a person's life and how it aligns with their values. Main Points: • Addiction is a complex issue that impacts wellness goals such as sleep, productivity, relationships, and parenting. • The sober curious movement is becoming more prevalent among younger generations, with more people recognizing that alcohol can negatively impact their overall wellbeing. • Articulating the dynamics of addiction and substance abuse in a more health and wellness-focused way can help reduce stigma and shame associated with the issue. • Looking at how substance use is impacting a person's life and how it aligns with their values is an effective approach. Outro: To learn more about Robbie and Patrick's work, visit their private practices, Eventide Recovery and Sana Counseling, or listen to their podcast, Champagne Problems. Thank you for listening to Finding New Waters, a resource for families navigating the complexities of addiction and mental health. Robbie Shaw Links: https://champagneprobspodcast.com(https://champagneprobspodcast.com) Instagram(https://www.instagram.com/champagneprobspodcast/) Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-champagne-problems-podcast/about/) Facebook(https://www.facebook.com/ChampagneProbsPodcast/) Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/c/ChampagneProblemsPodcast) Patrick Balsley Links: https://champagneprobspodcast.com(https://champagneprobspodcast.com) Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/sanacounseling)Sana Counseling Instagram(https://www.instagram.com/sanarecovery/) Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/company/sana-house/about/)

Gain insight into addiction treatment levels with Justin McLendon, our Executive Director, and Ryan Jarrell, our Continuing Care COO. They share personal experiences and expertise, stressing the importance of understanding the care and support needed for addiction recovery. < Back to Episodes Ryan Jarrell & Justin Mclendon Levels of Care in Addiction Treatment 27:56 min | Ryan & Justin | Finding New Waters Join our Executive Director, Justin McLendon, and our Continuing Care COO, Ryan Jarrell, as they discuss the levels of care in addiction treatment and the continuum of care. Ryan is a specialist in substance use counseling and mental health counseling, while Justin shares his personal experience with addiction. Play Video Facebook Twitter Pinterest Tumblr Copy Link Link Copied Subscribe "One of the things that I we provide at the detox level of care at New Waters Recovery and other institutions like us, is we're able to provide the sense of safety for the client and the client's stakeholders, their family, and loved ones." Ryan Jarrell Podcast Transcript Justin and Ryan Audio Justin Mclendon: [00:00:00] All right guys. Thank you. Thank you for joining us today at new Waters Recovery. My name's Justin McLendon. I'm the Executive director here at New Waters Recovery. I'm also a dually licensed therapist. I specialize in substance, substance use counseling, and then also in mental health counseling as well. And I am joined by Ryan Jarrell, who is our continuing care coo. And Ryan, we thank you for being on the show today, man. Absolutely. Ryan Jarrell: Thank you so much for having me, Justin. I really enjoy the fact that we're able to have these kind of conversations and provide education because it's such a befuddling kind of world to anyone who's an outsider, you know? Absolutely, completely Justin Mclendon: agree. So today we're gonna be focusing on The levels of care and addiction treatment. And we're also gonna be talking about the, that continuum of care and how that, that those level of levels of care can kind of flow and how they're intended to work. So Ryan, so maybe we could start off with just identifying what those levels of care Ryan Jarrell: are. Absolutely. Yeah. And again, like I really can't stress how difficult this can be to the [00:01:00] outsider family who maybe hasn't had substance use or maybe never had treated substance use in their family before. And we're battling against like Hollywood's depiction of what the levels of care are, right? Absolutely. Which is usually like a cut scene. Sunny room where someone's doing yoga and then someone's sitting in an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting that doesn't resemble any Alcoholics Anonymous meeting that anyone's ever been in. Right. So how we kind of like battle that image is by trying to provide these kind of this kind of education. There are different levels of care. And a lot of times they're defined partially by insurance companies, partially by best practice, by clinical visions of institutions you know, a addiction treatment. HA has had a really interesting development and I think like the evolution is very inherent in, in how it presents today. I'd like to go kind of sequentially through these levels of care from highest level of care, with the highest level of medical, medical acuity all the way down. Sure. And the first is detox or medical detoxification. And this will be a period of time that will be focused really deeply on the medical aspects of [00:02:00] of someone who is withdrawing from a substance their, their body has gained a physical dependence towards mm-hmm. These can be integrated into residential treatment facilities, or that can be standalone facilities like New Waters is mm-hmm. . We really can't underscore like how important detoxification is. And Justin, you know, from your own personal experience that someone who is going through detox from something like alcohol or benzodiazepines, they're not just uncomfortable, they have a real risk of dying. Yeah, Justin Mclendon: absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's a, that's a thing, right? I mean, you do in A lot of times I think people think that they can just simply stop using a substance. And sometimes a lot of people seek this type of care and support on an outpatient basis. And I think the reality around it is when the level of severity of that use, especially with certain substances get to a certain point it becomes a, a potential medical emergency. Sometimes if says, if someone doesn't have the correct supervision and medical care on board to make sure that we can, that we can [00:03:00] Avoid those potential risks that surround that. Ryan Jarrell: Absolutely. You know, one of the things that I think we provide at the detox level of care at New Waters Recovery and other institutions like us, is we're able to provide this sense of safety for the client and the client's, stakeholders, their family, and loved ones. Absolutely. You know, and allow them to know that they are in a safe place, being closely medically observed. detox. I think a lot of times people have the conception and I will really put myself out there. Like I had the conception that sure, I would go to detox, I would have a, a physical malady dealt with mm-hmm. I would have a, a physical illness and a physical dependence removed and then I would be able to go on about my life. This is something that we've seen. Empirically again and again is, is not best practice for treatment. While a detox will deal with the physical dependence to a substance and hopefully make you comfortable and give you an introduction in solid clinical backing the real work is gonna come afterwards. The real work is gonna be dealing with the mental. The emotional coping systems that you have built in place that have led you to use substances again and again. [00:04:00] Absolutely. And a detox is normally a week, and it's just not the right place to do that kind of therapeutic work. So residential level of treatment is the next level of care. Mm-hmm. This would be inpatient treatment. You, there would be some medical staff, certainly available. You'd see. Depending on the institution of course, but you'd see psychiatrists, nurses would be present, et cetera. This could last anywhere from 30, 60 to 90 days. And this is where you do the real work, both yourself and your family in healing and learning coping skills from this disease. Mm-hmm. . Justin, as someone who's worked in these kind of settings before as clinical director, I was wondering if you could, you know, share with us a little bit also about, Clinical aspects of, of that timeframe specifically. Justin Mclendon: Yeah, absolutely. And as you mentioned, Ryan, you know, it can be, you know, kind of traditionally we think about these residential levels of care of being like these 28 day programs or 30 day programs, but to your point, right, sometimes it's important for someone to actually remain at that level for longer. Right. And I think nowadays, maybe in the past 10 to 15 years or so, we are seeing more of these kind of 90 day models of [00:05:00] residential treatment emerge. And I think that's really based on a lot of research that's showing. For certain individuals longer periods of time in a controlled environment to where, you know, there's simply number one, no access to those substances. And then also just being able to do some deeper work with 24 hour support can really increase suc, you know, chances of successful outcome in the, in the long term. . But a lot of that work would be, you know, group therapy, individual therapy integrating the family into that recovery process, providing education not only to the client but to the family. And again, being able to dive in and do some really deep, intensive work in an, in an environment that is controlled, right? Where someone doesn't have to necessarily worry about having a a pretty. Pretty big emotional response to any particular clinical intervention. And then that being a trigger for them to fall back into old patterns or behavior or to isolate or to do something that's not gonna necessarily be productive in moving them along. That, that continuum of [00:06:00] recovery doing that work in a, in an environment to where, if they do have a strong emotional response, there's clinical, there's medical staff, there's support staff to be there with them to encourage them to make sure that they're safe and that to make sure that we keep them on that track of moving forward and not necessarily regressing. Right. Because I think a lot of this work. That that has to happen is is deep. It is difficult. And I think a lot of times, you know, for someone that's really struggling in those early stages of recovery our, our first response can be, going backwards, right. Kind of reverting, if you will. Right. So that's why I think it is very important. It's very important that we give ourself that opportunity to get the help that we need in an environment that can support us until we are stable and ready enough to kind of step down to our lower level of care. And then we have the skills in place at that point to where we have a better chance of being able to navigate things in the, in the real world, so to speak. Ryan Jarrell: Absolutely. I, you know, I, I know from my own personal recovery experience, like I really struggled with relapse for a [00:07:00] period of time. Mm-hmm. . And the issue is that I would get, I would get one bad thought and I couldn't get it out of there. And drugs and alcohol were easily available to me. Right. And that was it. And I think something that I think maybe you know, People don't necessarily give enough credit to when they're looking at residential treatment is you get to spend 36 or 90 days without the temptation of alcohol and drugs. Right. And it seems so basic, but we can't underscore how important that is. Absolutely. Because there are well-meaning people out there who spend 45 days doing fantastically, and on the 46 day they get a bad idea that they just can't shake, they're not in a healthy environment and they can end up doing some real damage. You know, Absolut. We've learned so much about the treatment of addiction and, and I think one of the things that I, I really love about working with, with professionals like yourself is just that we really believe that people deserve the best. Level of care possible for themselves. Absolutely. Absolutely. So residential provides not just that kind of physical removal from alcohol, the, the clinical work that you described it, it also provides a venue for families not only to get [00:08:00] some rest and take a step back, right. And know that their loved one is in a safe place, but ideally engage in some of that family programming so that everyone can engage in this process of recovery both separately and together. Absolutely. Post, post residential. You know, people will, will be discharged. There is, of course, you can't remain in an institution forever. You have to venture out into the world. So how do we best equip people to do that? Well, there are differing ways. You know, even though it may not be done directly, a lot of times in these treatment settings, people will take stock of, of recovery capital. The things that, the resources that you have to bear that would seem to lean towards having a good outcome for long-term sobriety and recovery. Depending on someone's family situation, they might be recommended to move into a. Situation. Mm-hmm. , especially for people who live alone people who don't have those methods of accountability built into their domestic situation, or they're just not coming back to a healthy environment. Sober living can be an excellent environment, not only to have that accountability built in, but develop a community of recovery, which is a huge, huge recovery capital supplier. [00:09:00] Absolutely. And this would usually be paired. Continued group therapy, either at a php, a partial hospitalization program, which is a super scary word when I tell people that they're not familiar with it. But this is outpatient programming, multiple days a week or an intensive outpatient that's a lower level of care. Again, it would be outpatient group therapy that meets several times a week. Mm-hmm. Justin Mclendon: and real quick. Just to add a little bit more color there. So that partial hospitalization or what we, you know, the acronym is php. Typically that is more days, right? More days, more clinical hours than an intensive outpatient or also what we call an I O P. And then for partial hospitalization, I believe the regulations are, I think it's 20 to 25 hours a week of clinical services. So typically you're seeing that as a, you know, a multi-day process. You're either there kind of Monday through Friday. Sometimes this, this can even be a seven day a week thing. But as you said, Ryan, that is on an outpatient basis, right? Whether you're living at home and you're coming in, you know, to the, you know, the facility or the building [00:10:00] for those services. Or if you're living in a sober, sober home environment and then coming in, you are, you are coming in each day to a facility to receive those services and then essentially returning to the community in, in some way. as to where intensive outpatient or i o p is usually about nine to 10 hours a week. So similar, right? You're in the community, you're either living at home or with a loved one or whatever that looks like, or living in a sober home and then coming in during during the day to that, that intensive outpatient program where you're receiving and usually, you know, kind of a standard. The way that most people do this is it's about three days a week. And you usually do three, three hour groups. Kind of spread throughout the week. And then typically these places are also, whether you're at the partial hospitalization level of care or the intensive outpatient level of care, you're also doing some individual therapy and typically some continued family work as Ryan Jarrell: well. Absolutely, absolutely. Providing those kind of measures of support and building a community around you and just getting to know [00:11:00] what this real life will be like. Hopefully with the coping skills that you've built up in your residential treatment and detox day. Mm-hmm. You know, the final kind of level of care if it would be outpatient care. Probably continuing to see an outpatient therapist, continuing to see a psychiatric provider for medication management. Ideally, one who is specializes in addiction and definitely one who is aware. of your substance use disorder. Right. And the history of it and engaging in community support groups, whether it's 12 step groups such as Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous Dharma or Refuge Recovery or Smart Recovery. Mm-hmm. , just trying to find that independent. That independent community that can help support you? You know, I, I reali, I mean, as we've talked about this, we've talked about highest level of medical acuity detox. Mm-hmm. and residential treatment, 36 year, 90 days, i o P or php. That's an additional length of time. And then this final outpatient level, and I'm sure plenty of people who are new to treatment. Who are maybe exploring the idea of, of wondering what they can do to separate substances from their lives. Or thinking like, how am I gonna have the time right to do this? Right. You know? [00:12:00] And I was wondering if you had any, any thoughts, Justin? Because I, I know that that's a common thing that people bring when they become overwhelmed by the amount of time they'll have to invest in it. Justin Mclendon: Absolutely. And I think, and we could, we could kind of speak to each level of that. So, you know, I think, you know, backing up to those, those inpatient levels of care, which are detox in that residential treatment, which is, you know, underneath the detox level it is true, right? You can't continue to work and, and do those things and also be in a residential program. It's just those two things typically can't coexist. There are some programs out there, you know, for someone that may be a high level executive or someone that doesn't. The luxury of being able to completely sever ties with their, with their job temporarily so that they can get the help they need. There are some programs that are available that you can continue to have your electronics, you know, if you need to log in and take care of some payroll and things like that. Those things do exist. We actually offer some of those things here at New Waters Recovery. If, if that is a true barrier for someone to be able to come in and get the help that they need [00:13:00] there are programs available that can allow them to not work necessarily full-time, but still be able to keep some touch with those responsibilities that they have in their life and get, you know, take care of those things. So, so it would take, I think for most individuals it would take a willing. And also the support, you know, from work and from family and friends to, to provide the space for that individual to, to step away, you know, for potentially months at a time to focus on their health. Right. And I'd like to compare this to, because we do view addiction as a, as a, as a neurological disease, right? Mm-hmm. a neurological disorder, and, and I. A lot of times people struggle with that idea of kind of pulling away from work and other family and life responsibilities to focus on their treatment. But I think it, it's, it's just very interesting to me that if someone was. Was given a potentially terminal diagnosis, a medical diagnosis and told that they were gonna need to do that same thing to pull out of work and other life [00:14:00] responsibilities to focus on that treatment. It's just interesting to me how people are usually more likely to, to find the ways to get that, that freedom, if you will, so that they can focus on that medical disease. , but not so much for the addiction and the mental health. But I would say that it. Just as important, right? If for us to live a you know, a life that's hopefully full of freedom and peace and happiness and, and just a healthy lifestyle. In order for us to accomplish that, sometimes it is just crucial for us to find a way to let people around us, whether that's our employers or our families, support us in a way that we can step away and we can truly focus on our, on our, on our health. Right? Absolutely. And I think also when we step down to that, that partial hospitalization, that intensive outpatient level of care it's, it's a lot of time. I mean, when we're talking, you know, anywhere from 10 to 25 hours a week. That is a lot of time. I think there is a way for someone to maybe kind of return to work or still be able [00:15:00] to engage in some of those family and life responsibilities but being realistic about the fact that it is not going to look the same as if we were not engaged in treatment. So it is important again to allow the people around us to support us, give us the space that we need to, where we can continue to focus on our treat. But then also I think as part of, of stepping back into to life and finding ways to cope with those, maybe also taking on some of those life responsibilities or maybe even taking on some of that work again. but being realistic that it's gonna probably have to be more of a part-time type schedule. Right? Absolutely. I think it's really at the, at the intensive outpatient level, there's more freedom. You're doing 10 hours a week of clinical services. I think most people find at that level of care, they usually can reengage in work and other responsibilities that they need to attend to. But it's not until you get to that true outpatient level where we're talking. You know, one to five, if you will, hours of clinical services a week. At that point, [00:16:00] I think most people are able to find, they're able to, you know, work full-time jobs, you know, attend to their families and their life responsibilities also be able to continue that treatment that's so necessary Ryan Jarrell: for them. Absolutely. I mean, it just strikes me that really at the end of the day what we're dealing with is, is battling an, it's an uphill battle against stigma. Yes. And the deep. Shame and guilt that accompanies this. And just like you said, if someone had bone cancer, right. You know, no one's weighing the days. No one's saying, I'll go in for seven days and then come back out, but I'm not doing the 30 day program. Right. Like, it's just not gonna happen. And, and there's a real a real sad and sick belief at the core of this is that yeah, people with addiction do not deserve the best treatment possible. Justin Mclendon: It's unfortunate, Ryan Jarrell: but it's true. PE people with addiction deserve to kind of suffer through things. and and, and just kind of soldier on regardless. Mm-hmm. . And, you know, I can't tell you, and I know you have this experience as well, right. When people are ready for help, regardless of what they've gone through before you see employers, you see family members, they stand up with open arms to help this person on the next level of care. [00:17:00] Absolutely. Because at the end of the day, we, when you're deeply involved with someone, when you see someone suffering you, you want them to get better regardless of the nature of the valid. Absolutely. So it's, it's sad when people have this kind of sense of sh of shame and guilt that is, is blocking them from, from accessing that care. You know, isn't your life worth engaging this process regardless of the amount of time, regardless of if it was a year, you know isn't it worth doing this so that you can be fully present for others in your life and, and enjoy the fruits of it. Yeah. Yeah, Absolut. But it's just, it's, it's just an unfortunate thing, you know? And it's something that, you know, I know I had to personally struggle with and, and many others on our staff had to as well. Absolutely. I Justin Mclendon: Oh, please go ahead. I was, I was gonna say, I think another thing that's important for us to touch on is you know, and Ryan, I think you've probably seen a lot of this as well, is, you know, when someone does get to a place where they're ready to take that step into treatment. You know, similar to what you were just saying, I think there's a lot of stigma. I think number one, it takes a lot of courage to be willing to [00:18:00] take that step and just even to entertain the idea of, of seeking treatment takes a lot of courage, I think. But I think something that a lot of people struggle with is this idea of like, I can just. put forth maybe some minimal effort or that I can find this kind of one, you know, magical thing that I can do and I can spend a minimal amount, a minimal amount of time on myself and my treatment and just kind of, you know, quote unquote cure this situation and then I can just get back to living my life and everything should be, should be fine. Mm-hmm. And I, and I wonder, Ryan, if maybe you could speak to the importance I think that we see, especially working in this profession of, you know, having a solid assessment and then following through with this continuum of care in a way that you can truly get the treatment that we need. Any thoughts on that? Yeah, Ryan Jarrell: absolutely. I mean, I think at the end of the day, what we're talking about is just best practice, right? We're talking about meta studies that have been done on people all across the country suffering from this disease and. , what is the number one best track of treatment? You [00:19:00] know, I, I tell people in my office all the time, you know, if you had cancer, I'm not gonna recommend the third best chemotherapy. I'm not recommending you the second best course of treatment. I'm gonna recommend to you the best to fight against a fatal malady. Mm-hmm. , I think it's a essential, you know, an essential part of the recovery process. Well, a befuddling part of the recovery process is there was a point in time in which I had become unwittingly my own worst. And that was in ways that I knew very directly and ways that I did not know very directly, especially surrounding my fears and anxieties and these fears and anxieties over issues real or imagined would often the strain of those would lead me back to a bottle or a bag, you know? Right. And so I think I needed a period of threshing time. I needed a period of time where I really needed to not make so many decisions for a little while. Yeah, because sometimes my decisions were good in those periods of time where I was struggling to maintain sobriety, and sometimes they completely befuddling wound me back up at the bottom. So just surrendering a little bit and allowing others to guide you. To some [00:20:00] areas that might be, to guide you out of a blind spot is, is just really, really important. In all other areas of our life, we're gonna seek medical professionals constantly. And yet for some reason when it comes to behavioral health and mental health, there's just so much resistance there, you know? That's true. Yeah, I think following that continuative care is just essential. Yeah, Justin Mclendon: absolutely. And, and to your point, I think. . There's just a pro, a profound amount of research. And also I think just professional experience that we see these things live out in real time that, you know. We want to take this serious. We don't want to continue to bounce in and out of treatment or to struggle with this disease for any longer than is necessary. Right? And I, I think it's important that when someone develops the, the courage and the willingness to take that step, that that's, you know, so important step of, of seeking treatment for their self. It is important to just hit it with everything they have, right? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And and again, I, I think we're, we're. So much research show that if we start at the most appropriate level of care, whether that be [00:21:00] detox, residential that we start at that appropriate level of care and that we follow the recommendations from the professionals involved and slowly step down through those levels of care to make sure that we are receiving not only just in, you know, a timeframe but levels of intensity to make sure that we are truly getting all of the treatment that we need. It just literally is going to greatly impact the, the chances of being able to be successful in our recovery moving Ryan Jarrell: forward. Absolutely. There's nothing more heartbreaking, and I've seen this multiple times where we have some wind in my office, we have a suggested level of care for whatever reason they're resistant, right? Mm-hmm. , and they end up leaving, and then we get the. Three weeks later, a month later, five weeks later, and they're sitting right back in my office again. Right. You know, we've had experiences like that recently and mm-hmm. and it, you know, to cut through that kind, the level of sadness and shame and guilt that they talked to me and there's no, there's no judgment here. You know what I mean? Right. We've all made plenty of, plenty of mistakes in the past, but I just wish I could erase [00:22:00] the pain and the damage that they've done in those months prior. Right. And more often than not, they do end up engaging in the appropriate level of care, but they've, they've. It's cost a lot, both resource wise and personally in the interim. Justin Mclendon: Absolutely. So, Ryan, what would be one thing if there was a family member or you know, a potential identified client that was, that was listening or watching this, this episode, what would be like one thing that you would have them take away from all of this? Ryan Jarrell: Yeah, I think one thing that. I would really want them to take away from it would be to know that it's all right to ask for help. And I think there's a really deep belief, and it sounds really cliche, and like it would, you know, come on the underside of a yogurt container or something like that, . But that, that, that it's okay to ask for help. And if you can't speak openly and transparently about something to somebody, you gotta find someone to speak that stuff to. And it's probably because there's a lot of shame and guilt surrounding that issue. So to be candid with someone, ideally a professional about where you. Yeah. There's a a great deal of relief that [00:23:00] can come from that and they can guide you on a course towards getting some real some real healing and wholeness, you know? Absolutely. Justin Mclendon: Well said, Ryan. Well said. I guess in, in closing, I would say especially again, you know, to anybody that's listening to this or watching that is a family member that is maybe looking into treatment options for a loved one, or maybe you're someone that is struggling with addiction. And you're just trying to find out what's the first step? What do I do? I think, you know, my biggest recommendation is the best place to start is a conversation with a professional. Right? And here at New Waters Recovery, I mean, we have those conversations on a daily basis. All you have to do is just call us and we will free of charge. I mean, we will have a conversation with you, we'll d we'll we'll gather some history on what's been going on and we'll try to help navigate, whether that's with us or with another provider that is gonna meet your needs. I think that is the best step. And that's not only with us, I think any other high quality program around, whether that's in the state of North Carolina or across the country or the world for that, That is always the [00:24:00] best, the first best step. And to, Ryan, to your point, I think having the, the willingness and the courage to, to ask for help can give you the opportunity to get a professional on the phone or, you know, on an internet chat or whatever that is, to be able to just start that conversation about like, hey, You know, openly and honestly, this is what's going on with me. And, and let someone provide that guidance about what that, that first step can look like. And really, in my opinion, I mean, taking that first step and being willing can open the doors to, to so many other things, to where we just don't have to struggle with this stuff for the rest of our life. You know? Ryan Jarrell: Absolutely. I, it, it's, it's another cliche, but it's always been very powerful to me. You know, someone told me one time, listen, you never have to drink ever, ever again. And it's, it's, it's so simple and such a basic fact, but if you are struggling with this or you have a loved one who is struggling with this, they never have to do it ever, ever again. And they have the chance to put this thing in the ground, you know? It, it's just gonna take s some willingness and, and and some, some real open-mindedness. Absolutely. And willing to go to some [00:25:00] places, some scary places, both as a family and, and as an individual. It's the best. You know, I say this all the time, right? It is the best time in the history of man to have addiction issues. Mm. And if you're in America, you're in the best possible country to receive really quality services. So if you're struggling with this or thinking about it, just take advantage while you can, you know, you don't have to live in that. Confusing morass of gross emotional weight of I've engaged in this compulsive behavior that I don't like. You don't have to live in that again, again and again anymore, Justin Mclendon: you know? Absolutely. Completely agree. Well, Ryan, I, I appreciate you hanging out with me and taking some time to discuss this topic. I know we both feel very passionately about this specifically, and hopefully anybody that's watching or listening, hopefully everybody's learned a little something from this. And again, if there's any way that we can help that is literally what we love to do, right? So we'd love to help any way that we can. Thank you guys. Ryan Jarrell: Thank you so much, Justin. Yeah. Show Notes Join our Executive Director, Justin McLendon, and our Continuing Care COO, Ryan Jarrell, as they discuss the levels of care in addiction treatment and the continuum of care. Ryan is a specialist in substance use counseling and mental health counseling, while Justin shares his personal experience with addiction. They stress the importance of understanding the levels of care, starting with medical detoxification, which is crucial for someone who is withdrawing from a substance and can be life-threatening. This show will help you gain a better understanding of addiction treatment and provide a comprehensive overview of the care and support needed for those struggling with addiction. Tune in to learn more.

n this episode of Finding New Waters, Dr. Brian Licuanan, a licensed psychologist and author of How to Get Your Resisting Loved One Into Treatment, shares invaluable insights on supporting loved ones through addiction and mental health challenges. Dr. Brian explains how family systems, boundaries, and assertive love can reshape the recovery process. < Back to Episodes Breaking Barriers: Dr. Brian Licuanan on Family Interventions and Navigating Addiction Recovery 40:02 min | Dr. Brian Licuanan | Finding New Waters In this episode of Finding New Waters, Dr. Brian Licuanan, a licensed psychologist and author of How to Get Your Resisting Loved One Into Treatment, shares invaluable insights on supporting loved ones through addiction and mental health challenges. Dr. Brian explains how family systems, boundaries, and assertive love can reshape the recovery process. With a focus on combating manipulation, setting effective boundaries, and fostering unified family support, he offers practical strategies for creating lasting change. Listen in as Dr. Brian discusses his approach to helping families regain hope and navigate the complexities of resistance in treatment. Subscribe "You can’t love someone out of their disease, but you can love them enough to set boundaries that save their life." – -Dr. Brian Licuanan Show Notes In this episode of Finding New Waters, Dr. Brian Licuanan, a licensed psychologist and author of How to Get Your Resisting Loved One Into Treatment, shares invaluable insights on supporting loved ones through addiction and mental health challenges. Dr. Brian explains how family systems, boundaries, and assertive love can reshape the recovery process. With a focus on combating manipulation, setting effective boundaries, and fostering unified family support, he offers practical strategies for creating lasting change. Listen in as Dr. Brian discusses his approach to helping families regain hope and navigate the complexities of resistance in treatment. Timestamps: • [00:00] Introduction: Welcome and overview of the episode. • [01:00] Meet Dr. Brian Licuanan: Dr. Brian introduces his clinical practice and his work with families and individuals in recovery. • [04:00] The Importance of Assertive Love: Redefining tough love and the role of family boundaries in recovery. • [08:00] Shutting Down Manipulation: Dr. Brian explains how families can address and counter manipulation by loved ones struggling with addiction. • [13:00] Empowering Families: Why the family unit must operate as a cohesive team with shared responsibilities. • [18:00] The 80/20 Model: Understanding the balance of legitimate struggles versus manipulation in addiction. • [24:00] Overcoming Resistance: How providing choices and addressing barriers increases the likelihood of treatment acceptance. • [30:00] Recovery as a Lifelong Journey: Dr. Brian discusses his broader view of recovery as a path for all, not just those with addiction. • [36:00] Closing Thoughts: Dr. Brian shares resources and how to access his book and services. Key Points Discussed: 1. Revising Family Strategies: Families often feel helpless, but Dr. Brian emphasizes that changing strategies can yield better outcomes. 2. Boundaries with Compassion: The importance of setting clear, enforceable boundaries while maintaining love and support. 3. Shutting Down Manipulation: Identifying and countering the tactics used by addiction to perpetuate destructive behaviors. 4. The Power of Assertive Love: Balancing love with rules and accountability to support recovery. 5. Hope for Families: Why families must stay hopeful and unified to influence their loved one’s path to recovery positively. Guest Bio: Dr. Brian Licuanan Licensed Psychologist and Author Dr. Brian Licuanan is a licensed psychologist based in California, specializing in addiction, mental health, and family interventions. With nearly 20 years of experience, Dr. Brian has worked extensively with families to navigate the challenges of supporting loved ones in recovery. He is the author of How to Get Your Resisting Loved One Into Treatment, a step-by-step guide offering practical strategies for families to foster change. Dr. Brian’s expertise spans private practice, community outreach, and educational talks, all aimed at reducing stigma and promoting mental health awareness. Resources Mentioned: • Dr. Brian Licuanan’s Website: https://drbrianlicuanan.com • Book - How to Get Your Resisting Loved One Into Treatment: Amazon, Barnes & Noble Follow Us: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery • TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc Watch & Listen: • Podcast Website: https://www.findingnewwaters.com • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw?si=f485f70900204da4 • Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608 • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw • YouTube Music: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn • Google Podcast: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9kZmI2YTk3NC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw Stay connected with us for more episodes that provide valuable resources for families navigating the complexities of supporting a loved one struggling with substance use or mental health. SEO Hashtags: #AddictionRecovery #FamilyIntervention #MentalHealthSupport #DrBrianLicuanan #FindingNewWatersPodcast #AssertiveLove #ManipulationInRecovery #BoundariesInRecovery Powerful Quote: "You can’t love someone out of their disease, but you can love them enough to set boundaries that save their life." – Dr. Brian Licuanan

In this deeply moving episode of *Finding New Waters*, we are honored to speak with Freida MacDonald, founder of *No Hope North Carolina*. Freida shares her personal story of turning immense loss—the passing of her two sons, Stephen and Michael—into a mission to help others struggling with addiction. She talks about her work with *No Hope NC*, her advocacy for harm reduction, the importance of resources like the Opioid Settlement Funds, and her work with recovery helplines. < Back to Episodes Turning Loss into Action: Freida MacDonald on Finding Hope and Helping Others 39:51 min | Freida MacDonald | Finding New Waters In this deeply moving episode of *Finding New Waters*, we are honored to speak with Freida MacDonald, founder of *Know Hope North Carolina*. Freida shares her personal story of turning immense loss—the passing of her two sons, Stephen and Michael—into a mission to help others struggling with addiction. She talks about her work with *Know Hope NC*, her advocacy for harm reduction, the importance of resources like the Opioid Settlement Funds, and her work with recovery helplines. Freida’s powerful message underscores the value of meeting people where they are, breaking stigma, and staying connected to resources for long-term recovery. Subscribe "If we bring it out of the darkness and into the light, it stops being a monster. We can face it together, and that’s where hope begins." - -Freida MacDonald Show Notes In this deeply moving episode of *Finding New Waters*, we are honored to speak with Freida MacDonald, founder of *Know Hope North Carolina*. Freida shares her personal story of turning immense loss—the passing of her two sons, Stephen and Michael—into a mission to help others struggling with addiction. She talks about her work with *Know Hope NC*, her advocacy for harm reduction, the importance of resources like the Opioid Settlement Funds, and her work with recovery helplines. Freida’s powerful message underscores the value of meeting people where they are, breaking stigma, and staying connected to resources for long-term recovery. --- ### Timestamps: - **[00:00] Introduction**: Welcome and overview of the episode. - **[01:00] Meet Freida MacDonald**: Freida introduces herself and the story behind *Know Hope North Carolina*. - **[04:00] Turning Loss into Purpose**: How Freida transformed the loss of her sons into a mission to support others. - **[08:00] The Critical Role of Resources**: Advocacy for accessible detox centers, affordable aftercare, and recovery programs. - **[13:00] The Power of Personalization**: How *Know Hope NC* honors lives lost through banners and billboards. - **[18:00] Harm Reduction and Hope**: Meeting individuals where they are in their recovery journey and reducing stigma. - **[24:00] Addressing Opioid Settlement Funding**: Freida discusses how opioid funds can be allocated to create lasting impact. - **[28:00] Virtual Resources for Recovery**: How virtual support and grief groups are creating access for rural and underserved communities. - **[31:00] Breaking the Stigma**: Encouraging families to talk about addiction openly and truthfully. - **[35:00] Closing Thoughts**: Ways to get involved with *Know Hope North Carolina* and other recovery resources. --- ### Key Points Discussed: 1. **Turning Grief into Action**: Freida shares her journey of honoring her sons’ legacies through meaningful service. 2. **The Importance of Resources**: Addressing the need for affordable detox centers, aftercare options, and accessible recovery solutions. 3. **Harm Reduction Saves Lives**: Why meeting individuals where they are—free of judgment—creates opportunities for change. 4. **Billboards and Banners**: How Freida’s initiatives bring awareness and humanize addiction by sharing real faces and stories. 5. **Virtual Support and Community**: Leveraging technology to provide resources and connection for those in rural areas or lacking transportation. --- ### Guest Bio: **Freida MacDonald** **Founder, Know Hope North Carolina** Freida MacDonald is the founder of *Know Hope North Carolina*, a nonprofit dedicated to reducing stigma, honoring lives lost to addiction, and connecting individuals to recovery resources. After losing her two sons—Stephen to gun violence and Michael to fentanyl—Freida turned her grief into purpose, advocating for harm reduction, increased access to resources, and ongoing support for individuals and families. Through her work with *Know Hope NC* and the Alcohol and Drug Council of North Carolina, Freida has helped countless individuals find hope and healing. --- ### Resources Mentioned: - **Know Hope North Carolina**: [https://www.knowhopenorthcarolina.com](https://www.knowhopenorthcarolina.com) - **Alcohol & Drug Council of North Carolina (Recovery Helpline)**: http://help4recovery.org(http://help4recovery.org/) --- ### Follow Us: - **Instagram**: [https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery](https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery) - **Facebook**: [https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery](https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery) - **LinkedIn**: [https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery](https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery) - **TikTok**: [https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc](https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc) --- ### Watch & Listen: - **Podcast Website**: [https://www.findingnewwaters.com](https://www.findingnewwaters.com) - **Spotify**: [https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw](https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw) - **Apple Podcast**: [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608) - **YouTube**: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw) - **YouTube Music**: [https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn](https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn) - **Google Podcast**: [https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9kZmI2YTk3NC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9kZmI2YTk3NC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw) Stay connected with us for more episodes that provide valuable resources for families navigating the complexities of supporting a loved one struggling with substance use or mental health. --- #AddictionAwareness #HarmReduction #GriefSupport #KnowHopeNorthCarolina #FreidaMacDonald #FindingNewWatersPodcast #OpioidCrisis #BreakingTheStigma #RecoveryResources --

Join us on "Finding New Waters" as Brad Kennedy shares his inspiring story < Back to Episodes Navigating the Road to Recovery: A Discussion with Brad Kennedy from Driftwood Recovery 38:56 min | Brad Kennedy | Finding New Waters An engaging discussion with Brad Kennedy, the COO and partner at Driftwood Recovery, regarding the unique challenges and innovative methods in helping individuals overcome addiction. Brad elucidates upon the philosophy of fostering self-reliance in their recipients and emphasizes the importance of tailoring treatment based on individual needs rather than purely usage duration. The conversation also touches upon Driftwood's efforts to redefine and treat pain in relation to substance abuse, and developing a recovery plan in line with the individual's time, needs, and resources. Lastly, Brad highlights the significance of a supportive environment and empathy in recovery path. Subscribe "We always say that we don't have any special therapeutic tricks or modalities that are trademarked. What we have is a culture that we're uncompromising about." -Brad Kennedy Transcript Brad Kennedy Brad Kennedy: [00:00:00] As new stressors and your brain comes back online after being sober, it's not, I had a guy who was here and he's like, my goal, I mean, from the jump is to be fully present. And he went through residential, he stayed with us for, I think, 60 or 90 days at the Riverside house. Did amazing work. Anyone would say you got A pluses for his recovery, his therapy work, all of it. He went back and he called me this fully present stuff is for the birds, man, my Boyfriend my son's worried. He's not gonna make the football team. Like, you know, he went down the list of these normal things He hasn't dealt with for years So it doesn't stick, right? And you need that support. You need people to bounce things off of. You need to create, I think, as a field, we need to find ways to train people not to need us.[00:01:00] Graham Doerge: Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Graham Durgie, and I'm the CEO and founder of New Waters Recovery down here in Raleigh, North Carolina. I'm joined today with our executive director, Justin McClendon. And our guest today is the one and only Mr. Brad Kennedy. from Driftwood Recovery. Um, Brad is the chief operating officer and partner at Driftwood Recovery. And I actually have some experience. I did a little, uh, I did a, about a year and a half of work where I was with Driftwood. Um, so obviously know the team intimately and all the work that they do. I still send Quite a few clients to them because in my opinion, they're one of the best in the business. Um, if I have a family member, if I have somebody, you know, very close to me that needs to go to treatment, driftwood is always at the top [00:02:00] of my list. So I'm very excited to have Brad on here today. Um, and Brad, I always kind of like to start these things out, obviously just, uh, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got into this work. Obviously it's pretty unique work that we do. So, uh, I think it's always interesting just to learn how people kind of find themselves to Brad Kennedy: that. Well, thank you so much for the kind introduction, Graham. It's really a pleasure to have some time to talk to you guys today. You know, I yeah, I kind of have taken a meandering path into this work. I certainly, you know, through my own personal experience, I had a need to seek support in different forms and fashions in terms of Really kind of a philosophy that I, that we hold true to at Driftwood today is trying to become the best version of yourself. And while I maybe wasn't that, I always throughout my life, um, and I was meandering through, like I had finished college and [00:03:00] I was working at Starbucks and I had a man who had become my, one of my mentors, Dr. Al Reister, uh, was a, was a regular customer there. And he came in and asked me, Hey, what are you going to do? It was like, you're graduating and. At the time I was really into running and triathlons and I said, well, I think I might do this 5k and then I'll work up to this. And he's like, no, I mean your life. And so, uh, you know, my first foray into the field was I was working with a preparation for adult living program. So I worked with foster kids, um, and really helped try to teach them independent living skills. And from that moment forward, uh, I did a number of different things, uh, in the helping industry. I worked at a treatment center in upstate New York, which is where I'm originally from. Um, And then ended up eventually finding my way to the Menninger Clinic where I worked for 14 years. Graham Doerge: Right. And Menninger is one of, you [00:04:00] know, kind of the top psychiatric programs across the country. Been around for what, 40 plus years? And, you know, one of the real staples in that world. So, obviously, great pedigree. You've, you've, uh, you know, being with them for so long, uh, you know, you're Your, you know, foundation is just so strong. And that's, that's, that's the thing that always stood out to me at driftwood is like the clinical team was so strong, you know, um, and all of you just that multidisciplinary team and everybody kind of having their own little specialty. Right. Brad Kennedy: Yeah. That's the model is really trying to make, I think you make yourself better by surrounding yourself with people that. Have skills that maybe you don't. Right. And the basic understanding, if you have 15 people in a team meeting, 15 lines are better than one or two, if you're just sitting in an individual session. So that's a kind of eat to the work that we have and dropping any egos over whose client or program they're in. It's like, what does that person [00:05:00] need? And how do we set up a team that allows for that Graham Doerge: experience? Yeah, a hundred percent. So there was a couple things that I pulled off the website that I just wanted to read quickly because I really like them and I think that you can, this will kind of be the catalyst to start, uh, start this conversation. Um, so from the website, Driftwood's approach is founded on an attachment based sanctuary informed model. Can you dig into that a little bit and, and just kind of let our audience, uh, understand what that Brad Kennedy: means? Yeah, absolutely. So I think when we hear like fancy psycho babble jargon, like attachment and sanctuary model, so our brains can kind of shut down. Um, and really to me, it's as simple as like the end result of actual addiction is a process where you really feel alienated from yourself and a really simple distilled down version of a secure attachment. is the opportunity to feel known, understood, and accepted. Known being the facts, right, which we generally pick [00:06:00] up in relationships pretty quickly. The understood part is the complexities of emotion and identifying, understanding, and expressing emotions. And then accepting, being like having people that you feel close to. And when you're using for a long time, and substance abuse disorder can rear its ugly head, you can really become pretty alienated from that. But the saddest part of that is when you become alienated from yourself, right? And you don't feel understood or accepting of yourself. You actively are repressing those emotions. When you look in the mirror, uh, it's not an accepting stance one is taking on, right? It's one generally people describe as a shame based, uh, response to that. And so we wanted to develop a program to help re establish the connection to oneself. And then bring in the context of recovery. We have a slogan like more context, more recovery. So family members, loved ones, whoever it may be, so that you can look at that ostracism that has [00:07:00] naturally occurred through the process. So when we say attachment, that's part of what we're talking about. Yeah, that's awesome. Justin Mclendon: You know what came up for me when you were talking about that is I'm a I'm a big fan and I guess a big student if you could if you could put it that way of Spirituality and like what spirituality means to us and just hearing you talk about that That was kind of the first thing that came up for me was you know, those same concepts is not And not to turn this podcast into one about spirituality or anything like that, I promise I won't do that. But, you know, that same idea is that, you know, removing or stepping away from this idea that there's this, you know Uh, big figure in the sky, but more of this idea of spirituality being like those things, right? Like acceptance, you know, uh, connection, mindful awareness, like, you know, living a life that is an engaging in, in relationships, uh, that is fulfilling and connected in, in kind of a healthier way of [00:08:00] life, if you will. Right. So I don't know, just throw in, throw in a couple ideas in there that came up while you were talking. Brad Kennedy: Yeah, I love that. We love that. Yeah. You know, it brings to mind, I worked, the first treatment center I ever worked at was a place called St. Joseph's recovery in the Adirondacks of upstate New York. And they had this tapestry on the wall, you know, certain things, when you see them, they just become kind of imprinted on your brain. And it said, if you want to know if a man is religious or not, don't ask him, follow him around for a week. I'm probably butchering it, but it was, that's, I love that. And so I think it really does tie into what you're saying, which is. How is the practice of recovery coming to life for people? How is, how are their feelings resonating within them? I mean, there are fancy modality names for it, I think. But when you really distill down amazing therapy and recovery, it's really. How do you start to, well, go for the luxury and love yourself again and love others, [00:09:00] or how do you just feel connected to yourself again or aware maybe is where most people start early on. Graham Doerge: Yeah. Yeah. And having that, that moment when you were saying looking in the mirror, I mean, I have that distinct moment of, of in being in my boss, uh, basement in Boston before I got into treatment and looking in the mirror and just having no idea who that human was, right? And just, and literally just feeling like I'm looking at a total stranger. Like I just had left, lost my whole identity and, and who I was. Right. And, um, so that isolating behavior is so scary, so terrifying. And it come into a place like driftwood. I mean, I know when I got there, the, and even just to visit the program, there was just like a vibe on the campus. Right. And it's just, you know, you're in Austin, Texas. It's a great place. It's a very, you know, kind of cool, funky place to be in general, but. It is such a family atmosphere and such a warm, loving place. And, um, and I just, that's [00:10:00] so important. It's, you know, it's not institutional. It's, you know, it's a really hopeful, beautiful place where people can, um, you know, take that next step in life. So, um, you guys have done an amazing job with that. Brad Kennedy: It really has a dream for us, right? And I say us, I mean, there's Peter who's, uh, Flores is one of our founders. My wife also works here. Dr. Vanessa Kennedy. I always tell people it's a Dr. Mr. Situation. It keeps my ego in check early on with this dream. Like, can we, can we do it? And I'll tell you one day, it's kind of a strange story, but one day where it really became true to me is we had a guy. Um, one of the staff came and said, Hey, this guy's upset. He's walking towards the gate, which is a long walk. You wouldn't want to walk, uh, from here. But before I could even get there, one of the guys, uh, who's our, one of our facilities guys was walking next to him. And I thought that's a model. Uh, [00:11:00] that's not in that guy's job description. He's not trying to do anything, but he gets the ethos and the shared culture that we have. We always say that we don't have any special therapeutic tricks or modalities that are trademarked. What we have is a culture that we're uncompromising about. And whether it's an attachment model or trauma informed, meaning we've all been through some pain and we all need some help to get out of it. That's something that we accept. We show up, um, from the kitchen staff to the docs. People are showing up with that shared mental model and wanting to approach and help in that way. Graham Doerge: Yep. Yep. That's even, even down to, you know, the staff eating with the clients and having that moment during lunch where kind of the barriers are taken down and you can have that, that real connection and that intimate moment, um, where they're not feeling like they're being therapized. Right. And, you know, those moments are sometimes some of the most powerful, powerful experiences that these guys have in treatment and those real breakthrough moments. So it's like having, you know, you're [00:12:00] not just doing work when you're in group, it's, it's happening all around you. And at all times, Brad Kennedy: right? Absolutely. And then we have a house, we have a house in, uh, Austin that we call our community integration program. We designed it with that, Mike, I'm going to carry out the attachment based model, right? And how do you take the show on the road? It's really cool in this bubble of residential treatment that arrests active addiction is completely necessary. And is absolutely beautiful, but we want to make sure that momentum carries forward. And how do you create those meaningful, secure attachments in real life? Um, and there's a whole team that supports people to do that. And it's a really kind of magic moment too, when you realize like, Oh, this doesn't happen just in a session or with the super accepting, uh, uh, it can happen in real life. If I'm showing up in a certain way that's more authentic and true to my values and the values of recovery and that. Yeah. [00:13:00] Yeah, absolutely. Justin Mclendon: Can you tell us a little bit about, I mean, we know, especially Graham know a lot about Driftwood, but you know, maybe for the people that are, that are listening and watching. Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, the program and like level of care, length of stay, what happens, what's the. Maybe the perfect client. The Brad Kennedy: perfect client. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Well, when you find them. Please send it my way, you know, Graham Doerge: perfect Brad Kennedy: client is someone that has a willingness to learn about themselves. Right. And the spark that often comes in a company's labels, like. A treatment resistant client is not something that, to me, it's like you have this spark inside you that doesn't allow you to fall into a trap of compliance for compliance sake, and you may actively debate things and appear in what clinical terms would be oppositional, narcissistic, insert your pathologized term here. That's not the barrier. The barrier is what's really getting in the [00:14:00] way of you accepting the best version of yourself. Right. And is it a fear or pressure or the fear of hope that the belief that change is positive and possible is so overwhelming that you're like, dude, I'm never going to be that Brad Kennedy, I'm going to be Starbucks entity, it's not going to happen, whatever. So, um, the perfect client to me is just has some willingness, the ability to hit the pause button occasionally and think. Maybe I don't have it all figured out, right? And we, I think, have the responsibility as a team to assemble a team that creates opportunities for that kind of change. Um, so I'm sorry, I went off on like the bad history teacher that goes off on 10. No, I love it. No, I love it. That's, uh, to me, the perfect like, you get the willingness, even if they have an edge to their presentation, um, we get it, right? Um, there's a fancy therapy clinical term for it called epistemic mistrust, right? It's like something happens in your [00:15:00] life. That doesn't allow you to trust your primary caregivers, uh, whoever that may be, maybe your parents, maybe your partner, whatever. So that's, that's ruptured. Through active addiction, your trust of your mind will get ruptured, right? It's par for the course, um, that you can't, people will come to you and also say, Hey, do your best thinking. And AA has slogans for their like, your best thinking got you here, right? But it's, you can't trust your mind. And then you have somebody show up like me and you're like, but I'm Brad Kennedy, I'm going to be super nice to you. And you're like, who the hell are you? Why should I trust you? I, I don't trust the people I'm biologically wired to trust. I can't trust my own thinking right now. So some guy sitting in an office on a nice campus, you're the You're the savior. I don't think so. And so that's the elephant in the room. Right? Is that mistrust oftentimes that makes people think, well, they don't want to change as if it's a readiness question. And it's really like a human being [00:16:00] question. Maybe they're pretty wise not to trust yet because they're afraid of being hopeful, right? What the family or loved ones might think. If you do start doing better, people want you to replicate that. So, Graham Doerge: sorry, I got fired up over that. And, and so how do you, how do you approach that client and how do you break through that? And, and what's the methodology there? Yeah. Brad Kennedy: So, attachment takes time, right? And so, the first thing is the ability to have clinicians that know what to do with the things that get unearthed through the recovery and therapeutic and treatment process. The second is the time to do it. So we have very small caseloads complete compared for our clinicians compared to most people yet They're probably working as much or more hours than anyone, right? Because they're trying to find a way in and they're trying to point out where the incongruence is between how that person sees himself [00:17:00] or is presenting themselves and how they're really showing up in life And sometimes we need people to say, Hey, Graham, when I saw you in Boston and looking in that mirror, I actually saw a guy who was scared and you're like, Oh, I wasn't scared of this fella, bring up a moment. So, right. And, and they're like, yeah, but you know, they're bringing those two realities together. Um, yeah, we create that. We have a group programming that's basically designed to basically every day you're getting. A open process group, right? This kind of traditional group psychotherapy. And we bring in trainers to train our clinicians in like, what is, how do you find those dynamics, those repeated patterns and no one likes to look at the hidden dynamics in their level, like, I don't know about you guys, but when people bring those up to me, I'm like. Yeah, probably not. They're like, I'm going to get defensive the first time, probably. So we have, you can bring it up people that can curate a community [00:18:00] and have a shared experience. We use evidence based behavioral practices because all the insight in the world without action. Just leads to more frustration. So it's one thing to know, Hey, I don't have a voice in my family, but if you don't have a dbt, dear man, to know how to speak up next time, that situation presents itself, you're just kind of fuming and silence. So we teach a lot of skills dbt that apply very readily to addiction. And then we do a lot of recovery group. There are principles in recovery, honesty, grief and loss, resentments. How do you deal with that stuff? Um, and trying to find a pathway that people can really work on that in their own way. Graham Doerge: Yeah. And the thing that was coming up for me right there was, was the, uh, like the people pleasing, right? It is such a common, um, attribute and, and I'm a huge. Uh, you know, victim of this and, and, and I [00:19:00] think I'm better at it now, but early on, I mean, you know, that was, it was just kind of like, how do I stay under the radar? And, and, you know, uh, obviously, you know, giving people the answer that they wanted was a good way to do that. But obviously, um, your process, I think really kind of gets them out of that head, head frame, you know, um, and meet some where they're at, which is awesome. Brad Kennedy: Thanks. Yeah. I mean, we're all, to me, the best solutions are co created. Right. So no matter how awesome a program may be, a clinician may be, a peer group may be, if you don't have a shared narrative between you and the other party, it's really hard to buy in. Right. And you may know the right and you may even agree. Yeah, that's the best way to deal it. Do it. I can't do it, but that's a really cool way to deal with, uh, right. So it's creating, I think this is what's going on, allowing the space to check. And asking the person how I move forward, right? Sometimes they already know, [00:20:00] right? Um, or there's invisible vultures like fear, anxiety, resentment. Graham Doerge: And so this is a long process. It takes a long time, right? So how long are clients typically with you guys? And what's, what's in your opinion for a positive outcome? What's the best scenario for length of stay? Brad Kennedy: Yeah. I mean, so I think our average length of stay at residential is around 47 days, right? Uh, some people detox when they come in sometimes. People come from great detox experience like you guys have and they show up ready, minds are ready as well to do the work. Um, and then you need some kind of aftercare after that, right? And I think depending on your lifestyle and you know, the treatment's expensive. Um, how do you continue to keep the momentum that you get going from a residential experience into real [00:21:00] life? Um, so we're always trying to help people envision a plan. It's not a 30 day problem. It's a one year problem, is the way I think about it. And it's, does it stop at a year? Of course not. But like, let's not make the finish line something that's deceiving to an individual. That the work is very, very difficult. Um, as new stressors and your brain comes back online after being sober, It's not, I had a guy who was here and he's like, My goal, I mean, from the jump, is to be fully present. And he went through residential. He stayed with us for, I think, 60 or 90 days at the Riverside House. Did amazing work. Anyone would say, uh, A pluses for his recovery, his therapy work, all of it. He went back home. He called me. This fully present stuff is for the birds, man. My teenage boyfriend, my son's worried he's not going to make the football team. Like, you know, he went down the list of these normal things he hasn't dealt with for years. So it doesn't [00:22:00] stop. Right. And you need that support. You need people to bounce things off of need to create. I think as a field, we need to find ways to train people not to need us. Right. So you need to find right. A meeting where you can share and connect you need to find a group where you can share and connect that you're not paying by The hour right as much as I love some of my long term clients That's my goal for everyone is like, how do you find that within? And maybe there's times when you you go back to a therapist you had or a sponsor you had and you're like, hey I really need help. Um, but you one of the mentors I had was peter fonagy And he said don't you think the best coping skill you can teach somebody is the ability to think for themselves? And, um, wow, that's, uh, that's a good point. It's hard to argue with that one. That's Graham Doerge: huge. That's huge. Yeah. And I mean, in your mindset too, as a therapist, you know, your goal is to get this person, you know, self sufficient and on their own. And, you know, unfortunately a lot of [00:23:00] therapists, that's, they, they, they want you coming back for, you know, an extended period of time. So it's not only, you know, that, that kind of a mindset. So being careful about that, I think is also good too, but I know you had a question. Well, I was just Brad Kennedy: thinking, you Justin Mclendon: know, when you were talking like, you know, so we have, Yeah. I think we would agree that year trajectory is, is, uh, should be gold standard. Again, that's my opinion, right? But, um, you know, it's, it's hard, especially being on the very front end, you know, operating a detox facility like we do here at New Waters Recovery. Uh, we have a client that's come in, we're working with the client, we're working with the family, we're having discussions about, okay, this is what's going on, this, this is our recommendation for moving forward. Uh, that is a hard pill to swallow to say, hey guys, we're not talking about. The next 30, 45 days here. We're talking about the next six months, the next year and what that needs to look like. Um, and that, uh, that can sometimes be a, you know, a big conversation to, to broach with, with clients and families. Um, you [00:24:00] know, so, you know, I think, you know, the way we handle that is, okay, let's not worry about what's going to happen 365 days from now. Let's worry about what are we going to do next. And then I really like what you said, Brad, about, We, we really should be, I think, collectively as an industry, as individuals that provide care for other people, like, um, really working towards that goal of, you know, somewhere in this process, we're letting go of those reins, the client is taking control of those reins, and that needs to become something to where they're providing their own care, so to speak, right? They are the source of their own Uh, change and they, and they find, you know, places where they can receive that, that support that doesn't have to be in a facility setting. It doesn't have to be necessarily a, you know, an extensive team of professionals that's working with them. Because at the end of the day, I mean, we all just want to We just want to live life, right? We want to make good decisions. We want to have good connections. And like, we kind of started the conversation with, we just want to be healthy people, you know? Yeah, absolutely. I love it. So we have that, we have that same philosophy. [00:25:00] Brad Kennedy: Yeah. I think the way I think about it too, is we all have different measuring sticks for how we're going to measure our values in our life and our quality of life. And how can we partner with the people that are trusting us enough to seek help to develop their own recovery milestones? I don't know how you like i've been doing this for a long time. There's nothing. No, there's not a discussion I dislike more than talking about number of days in treatment. I have like Yeah, I can see it based on research sure it makes a lot of sense But really, if you start to define what does it mean, like, what are the outcomes that you're looking for? So for that example I used, I want to be able to handle the reality of my children's lives without feeling so overwhelmed that I feel like, man, I don't really even want to be fully present. You know, and start to define, for each, each of us define those recovery milestones. And they plateau and they keep going right through my I through [00:26:00] my own therapeutic work. I always I feel like man i've really tried really hard at therapy, but I always find something to do To work on life keeps throwing me more curve balls And then I have to define what I'm going to do with those things rather than stagnate. And that's okay. Um, but making it about that, what's the current challenge you have versus numbering days? Um, cause that's, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Graham Doerge: Sorry. Yeah. A hundred percent. No, no. And, and no, I totally agree. You know, that, that conversation of, you know, how long is this going to take? And hey, listen, it takes what it takes, you know, and, and it's like, you know, the only thing that I had to change was. Everything, you know, and, and those are all kind of, you know, slogans, whatever you want to call it, but, uh, that's just the reality. And the person that I am today has is so far from the person that I was when I was 25 years old. Right. And, um, you know, I really even look at it as like act one and act two, [00:27:00] you know, and, uh, you know, obviously I struggled in that first act and, but, you know. In the same respect, I wouldn't change anything because all of those things that I went through that I experienced, the hardships, that's who, that's who I am now. That's what made me who I am. And, you know, it's like, um, you know, people look at this, at this as being such a detrimental crisis. Right. And, and the reality is, I think a lot of us look back on it five, 10 years down the line and we're like, God, thank God that that happened to me because I have so much more empathy. I have so much more compassion. I have so much more just like awareness for, uh, How to treat people well, you know, and how to have a connection in a relationship and all those things, you know, and having fellowship. I mean, I, I think we're truly lucky to have, you know, the resources that we have an AA and these, these amazing 12 step fellowships, you know, it would be great if a lot of people had these, uh, these in their regular life. I think our world would be a much different place if people had a place to go like that. It's true. So that being said, I [00:28:00] also wanted to talk a little bit about, um, the pain management program that you guys have, because that's pretty unique to you all. There's not a lot of folks that are doing it in, in the way that you guys are. So, um, and that's a real problem. You know, we've got a lot of young adults or not young adults, sorry, older adults who are, you know, having chronic pain issues, they've had accidents, they've had falls, they get prescribed pills by doctors and before they know it. They're hooked. They're addicted. They're physically addicted and they don't know how to get off. Right. And a lot of times it's psychosomatic and there's, you know, a lot of complex, you know, issues with that. So, um, you guys have an incredible, uh, team, uh, handling that over there. So you want to dig into that a little bit? Brad Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, talk about coming by it fairly to your point, Graham is, uh, you know, you have a number of injuries. Doctors often are prescribing drugs that trigger something genetically that then triggers a whole addictive process that maybe that person wasn't [00:29:00] actively seeking, but literally fell into on the ski mountain or through playing sports or other things. And then they look up one day and they're, they're physiologically and psychologically dependent. And so for people that have that kind of chronic pain and addiction tendency, we've designed a program because they're, they're, uh, defenses and they're, the way to engage that crowd can be a little different, right? And the guy who is stuck in frat party mode or something like that, you know, it's a different presentation. Um, and we've had athletes and other things in that program. And really what we're trying to do is if they've, they've, Look at all the medical issues that are there, right? They've had the surgeries, things have been dealt with to maximum medical benefit, but the substance use is still there. We're looking to change their psychological relationship to pain. Right. And there's regions and neural pathways in your brain that could [00:30:00] just get. The end of this pain and this stress is through taking this medication. And the sad part is, you're right. But, the end result of, uh, tolerance and habituation to those medications that were designed to be short term to help you recover from a hip surgery, shoulder surgery, going through all the surgeries I've had, uh, uh, like, those things that were designed to be band aids on that. We're not designed to be lifelong medications in that way. 100%. And so we work. And Graham Doerge: in fact, they stopped working in a lot of cases, Brad Kennedy: right? Yeah, exactly. They, people become, there's a loss of like feeling psychologically and physiologically. Like what am I, why am I even taking this? Um, and so we work with people to identify the feelings in their body. Um, and really start to see are they fused to other things? Uh, that are fueling. I think we call [00:31:00] it like the psychological underpinnings of that form of addiction. So is it a fear that this chronic condition is going to get worse? Can we find exceptions to the pain through experiential activities, sometimes as simple as walking or water aerobics or hanging out? We have awesome trainers here that will find exercises that people can do is pain free as It is possible. We have hand bikes, things like that, where we're, we're trying to find the experience where you're moving, but you're like, not feeling that physiological pain. Graham Doerge: But so much of the time too, I feel like it's the fact that these people haven't been moving. Right. And you know, just doing some yoga and doing some movement and just kind of like restorative yoga, very light. Yep. It's getting the blood flow and getting and building some strength to whether it's, you know, I know a lot of people have these back issues and it's, you know, a lot of times it's, you know, your core, right? It's like we've got to build some strength there too. And obviously if there's a real injury, [00:32:00] that's one thing. But, um, doing that slowly and surely I know you guys work on that. Brad Kennedy: Yeah. When you, when you're having that experience of, Historically, I think it's called like health anxiety, right? If I work out, it's going to happen and it's grounded in 10 percent of reality or maybe more, right? But it has happened at some point. You need those corrective experiences. And so our. Schedule is chock full of experiential activities. We have no desire to be spa like treatment. I'm sure Graham's heard me come off on this before. That's not our market. If we're doing acupuncture, trauma informed yoga, it's all with the clinical purpose and intent of doing exactly those things that Graham is talking about. I think Mel pulls it. He had some line like, motion is lotion for your pain or something. It's going to help. Right. So. That's the idea, right? If you can get moving, you can get walking. We have equine therapy. We assembled this broad team to find a way in that [00:33:00] creates a connection and a common factor to help somebody move forward. Uh, the greatest indicator of therapeutic success is the attachment you feel to the team or individuals you're working with. And so we need to find, and it's not all going to work based on one personality type. So we have different people, different modalities that are going to try to find a way to resonate with that person to get the momentum going. Um, Graham Doerge: that's great. I mean, that's amazing. Yeah. And, and we talk about that all the time about how, um, you know, cause we're doing so much aftercare planning here because a lot of the clients that are coming to us just have no plan, right? I would say probably 75 percent of them. And so our team in a seven to 10 day period is, you know, digging into the case, figuring out where the leverage is really working with the family to hopefully get them on to some sort of longer term, uh, residential and, um, and you know, we're pretty successful, you know, with that. But, you know, the reality is it's just, it is such a fight. It is such a battle, you know? Brad Kennedy: Yeah. It's Justin Mclendon: few and [00:34:00] far between, you know, we get that individual that comes in. That's, you know, pre motivated, if you will. Right. They're like, I know I got a problem. I want to make changes. I know I need to do treatment and you guys just need to help me figure out where that's going to be. Uh, and those are. And getting Graham Doerge: really granular with those referrals and saying like, I know Brad Kennedy at Driftwood would be a great fit with this client or I know, you know, whatever that is. I think, you know, pairing the clinical team with our, with our people is rather than just kind of throwing a dart at a dartboard and hoping for the best with a program. Right. And having that intimate knowledge of. of, of the people we're referring to and who's on the team and Brad Kennedy: all that. Yeah, Justin Mclendon: and, and to, and I know you guys do some assessment work out there as well, like inpatient assessment program. We do a similar type of program and I just feel, not to again, make this show about that, but I feel like. Making a referral is one thing, but like really taking the time to understand what's going on with the client. What is their story? What are their actual specific and unique [00:35:00] needs? Uh, and helping them understand what that is so that we can drive referrals based on what is going to be the most effective. Uh, you know, facility or, or type of program or treatment modality for that person, you know, as we're talking about pain, right? So if we're identifying that, you know, there's chronic pain and we're seeing those type of, you know, psychosomatic or that, you know, they've crossed that threshold into the place where, you know, the continued engagement in the addiction process is likely. You know, fueled by the anxiety and the fear and things like that, you know, finding a place like, like driftwood, a place that we know is really going to be able to specifically tackle that issue, or if we're seeing that, you know, a lot of these presenting problems that are kind of in front of this person is most likely due to all of this unresolved trauma and these traumatic experiences that they've experienced and just never really come to terms with or been honest with their self about, or they're just completely removed from how that's, you affecting them, trying to find a program that's really going to help them jumpstart that [00:36:00] process. And, uh, you know, so anyways, not to get on a tangent there, but there's a lot of programs in the country and across and in the world. Right. And, uh, I think giving a good referral is taking that time to understand what's going to be the best for that person. And then of course, the work of motivating that person to, to make that decision Brad Kennedy: for themselves. Right. I agree completely with what you guys are saying. My wife runs our assessment program. We do a full onslaught of psychological testing and we have psychiatrists, other docs that meet with them. There is not a program that is right for everyone and so I know there's no You're what you guys do if I think back to myself and what would have been cool for me as a 18 year old You should send me to an outdoor highly Experiential thing because I'm not gonna sit still long enough by group three to really listen be focused plus. I'm pretty avoid right so Only about half the people in our assessment program actually stay with us. It's not a designed, [00:37:00] it's designed to get them to the right experience. Um, and make sure that we have the driftwood experience. Does that fit? How do we assemble the team in the right way? How do you have EMDR for trauma a couple times a week? How do you work on? I rest, which is a evidence based practice form of yoga to really feel it in your body while you're doing this heavy duty lifting of looking at something extremely painful. So I think it's really great and cool that you guys look at it that way. Um, it gives me a Graham Doerge: hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Well, I mean, listen, this has been so awesome. Can reconnecting with you. Do you want to just give our audience a, uh, your website and maybe have any, any social handles if you have them? Brad Kennedy: So I may be the world's worst marketer, so I can give you the website. And Graham Doerge: we'll put it all on the, we'll put it all on the, on the podcast. Everybody can find it there as well, but let's give it to him real Brad Kennedy: quick. Yeah. Uh, it's, uh, just [00:38:00] driftwoodrecovery. com. Um, I'm sure we have social media handles and I'm sure I don't know what they are. So I apologize. Graham Doerge: All good. All good. And we'll put, we'll put all of that online so that everybody can, um, can find driftwood. But, um, you know, always, always a pleasure. I always learn something from you whenever we talk. Um, you guys are really just doing revolutionary work out there and, um, just very supportive of what you guys are doing. Brad Kennedy: We feel the same about you guys and I just really appreciate you guys thinking of us and giving us some time to talk With you today. Thank Graham Doerge: you so much. Of course All right, brad. Have a great day Show Notes An engaging discussion with Brad Kennedy, the COO and partner at Driftwood Recovery, regarding the unique challenges and innovative methods in helping individuals overcome addiction. Brad elucidates upon the philosophy of fostering self-reliance in their recipients and emphasizes the importance of tailoring treatment based on individual needs rather than purely usage duration. The conversation also touches upon Driftwood's efforts to redefine and treat pain in relation to substance abuse, and developing a recovery plan in line with the individual's time, needs, and resources. Lastly, Brad highlights the significance of a supportive environment and empathy in recovery path. ⁠https://driftwoodrecovery.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiArfauBhApEiwAeoB7qOXweJVRcFC11zxuNjMg-J706Jckb3Rv1kAjF4JtTSKX_crYX9SsHhoC5vgQAvD_BwE⁠(https://driftwoodrecovery.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiArfauBhApEiwAeoB7qOXweJVRcFC11zxuNjMg-J706Jckb3Rv1kAjF4JtTSKX_crYX9SsHhoC5vgQAvD_BwE) Podcast Website: ⁠⁠https://www.findingnewwaters.com⁠ (https://www.findingnewwaters.com/) New Waters Recovery Website: ⁠⁠https://newwatersrecovery.com⁠(https://newwatersrecovery.com/) Watch & Listen on Spotify: ⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw?si=f485f70900204da4⁠ (https://open.spotify.com/show/4NOV2g85KExFWU5mTz5Gjw?si=f485f70900204da4) Apple Podcast: ⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608⁠⁠(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-new-waters/id1684075608) Youtube: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw⁠ (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjfAIXtiOgy1XFcwAduXgXw) Youtube Music: ⁠https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn&feature=share⁠ (https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJOc6yLcjibGGAKgLYPCN47etJCY89mn&feature=share) Google Podcast: ⁠https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9kZmI2YTk3NC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw⁠ (https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9kZmI2YTk3NC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw?authuser=0) Follow Us on Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery⁠ (https://www.instagram.com/newwatersrecovery) Facebook: ⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery⁠⁠(https://www.facebook.com/newwatersrecovery) Linkedin: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery⁠ (https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-waters-recovery) Tiktok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc⁠ (https://www.tiktok.com/@newwatersrecovery_nc?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc) For more information, to submit a question for our show, or to explore our affiliated detox center, visit the Finding New Waters website at ⁠⁠https://www.findingnewwaters.com⁠⁠(https://www.findingnewwaters.com/) and the New Waters Recovery Center at ⁠⁠https://newwatersrecovery.com⁠⁠(https://newwatersrecovery.com/). Join us on this transformative journey! 00:00 Introduction to the Concept of Being Fully Present 01:15 Introduction of the Hosts and Guest 02:03 Personal Journey into the Field of Recovery 04:10 The Importance of a Strong Clinical Team 05:06 The Philosophy of Driftwood Recovery 05:29 The Concept of Attachment and Sanctuary Model 07:10 The Role of Spirituality in Recovery 09:39 Creating a Supportive and Hopeful Environment 14:52 The Importance of Trust in the Recovery Process 16:20 The Approach to Treatment at Driftwood Recovery 18:46 The Challenge of People Pleasing in Recovery 19:22 The Importance of Co-Creating Solutions in Recovery 20:21 Understanding the Length of Stay in Residential Treatment 20:38 The Importance of Aftercare and Maintaining Momentum 21:05 The Reality of Recovery: It's a Long-Term Commitment 21:20 The Challenges of Staying Present in Recovery 22:00 The Need for Support and Self-Sufficiency in Recovery 22:51 The Role of Therapists in Recovery 23:14 The Importance of Long-Term Recovery Planning 23:39 The Struggles of Discussing Long-Term Recovery with Clients 24:08 The Goal of Self-Care and Independence in Recovery 25:00 The Role of Personal Values in Recovery 25:22 The Problem with Measuring Recovery by Number of Days 25:40 The Importance of Defining Personal Recovery Milestones 27:58 The Reality of Chronic Pain and Addiction 28:40 The Unique Approach to Pain Management at Driftwood 33:36 The Importance of Personalized Treatment and Referrals 37:33 Final Thoughts and Contact Information